How does the father figure to go to the old crooked diamond seller?
There was no merchandise stolen... so why would he go to this guy?
There was no merchandise stolen... so why would he go to this guy?
Presumably he figures the robbers would've gone to the guy had they been successful. He is on familiar terms with the guy and calls him a 'crook', which suggests he knows him have bought/sold stolen diamonds in the past.
He doesn't know for sure that this guy has something to do with it, he just goes there hoping to find something out, and gets lucky.
A lot of people seem to be assuming that, because Charles knew the fence, he must have had some dealings with him. I just don't see the evidence for that - most of their conversation is about how they knew each other because they both started in the business at the same time and in the same neighbourhood, and the fence's whole motivation for revealing Andy as the potential seller is to get back at Charles for his perceived denigration of the fence's illegal activities for the whole length of their relationship. If anything, the exchange suggests that Charles was scrupulously honest in his dealings, as one crook doesn't usually have a whole lot of moral authority over another. The fence was stung by Charles' disapproval precisely because Charles was successful without being a criminal, which contradicted the fence's worldview that criminality was forced on everyone by the world at large. Charles' virtuous example made the fence feel like a lowlife.
Besides, if you work long enough in any industry, you get a sense of who the crooked operators are pretty quickly.
yeah and what the hell was Andy doing there? he didn't have diamonds to sell either, at that point of time? Why did he leave his card?
shareI thought Andy made a stupid move here as well. If you're going to reveal to a third party that you've committed a crime, its a good idea to wait until after the crime has been succeessfully pulled off. Because if it doesn't go according to plan, its just one more loose end you won't have to worry about.
shareYeah. Can someone explain why Andy left his card there? For what? "Remember me when I finish this job I will sell you some jewelery"?
shareBecause, the "fence" thought that Andy was a cop. So, Andy left his card behind so the "fence" could run a check on him...
shareAnd besides, the fence should NEVER reveal anyone's identity. That's part of the job.
I don't think the fence would have, except that Charles had known him since they were kids starting off in the jewelry business in the same neighbourhood, and the fence felt that Charles had always looked down on him for his extra-legal sidelines. Showing Charles that it was Charles' own son who was involved in the robbery was the fence's way of proving to himself and Charles that the difference between them wasn't that Charles was moral and the fence immoral, but that the fence understood the world's immorality while Charles was naive. Without that history, I don't think the fence would have given Andy up, at least not so easily.
shareIf you don't have someone to sell the jewelry to, why commit the robbery at all? It's smarter to line up the sale beforehand, so you don't have to worry about protecting a bunch of pieces of evidence that are as good as a confession if you're ever caught with them. If you're going to steal something, it's in your interest to get it out of your hands and converted into cash as quickly as possible. And what if you can't find a fence at all? You've taken a huge risk in committing a crime for precisely zero gain.
Andy played it smart - he just couldn't have known about the history between the fence and his dad.
Andy played it smart - he just couldn't have known about the history between the fence and his dad.
Andy wasn't smart, he was incredibly stupid...first off he had his brother, a total *beep* up and scaredy cat commit the robbery...he might as well have asked his dad to do it. Never, ever commit a crime with a moron. You're just asking to get caught. Second, he was skimming money from his job...did he think they wouldn't find out?
And if Andy was smart he would've looked for a fence in another city, preferably in another state...you don't look for a fence in the same city you're going to commit the crime in, that's idiotic. Robbery is about being overly paranoid about absolutely everything, leaving no stone unturned. Stupid people who don't plan properly get caught, as we clearly saw in the film.
Andy sets up the crime precisely because he's been embezzling - he needs to pay money back was my assumption - how he covers the paper trail I'm not sure.
I don't think most criminals would go to another state to fence goods, particular not in NYC.
You don't steal anything as valuable and 'hot' as diamonds unless you've lined up a fence. The market is very narrow and limited to people who all know each other. If he's not considered 'bonafide' to a credible fence, he won't be able to dump the diamonds. At least not quickly, and that was paramount in this case.
The father knew the robber would have a fence lined up. And the father knew who in NYC would be able to fence the goods.
IMHO it was one of the weaker points in the movie though. Had this taken place in some rural town then I could buy that the father would hit the same fence as his son had chosen - but this is NYC. One in a 100 if not 1,000 chance. It would have been more credible, again, IMHO, if the dad had gone to the old acquaintance to see if he could give him some insight/advice as to where the thieves, they possibly from up in the Westchester Co area, might go about getting rid of some hot ice. Just a hairs difference in the dialogue and the fathers characters demeanor when he approached the old fence would have made this scene succeed. IIRC, he went into the store with a hunch that this was the place the thieves went to unload.
"Of all the gin joints .."
On the contrary going to this fence made perfect sense. The movie across several scenes carefully showed the father first relying upon then demanding the local police be more diligent in solving the case. Out of anguish he set out to solve the case on his own. Where better place to start start a task you knowing about but to go back to your roots contacting anybody and everybody you've ever known for info?
Andy did the same thing but the result being his own demise. After years of the good life Andy and his father out of desperation reached out the the only guy they knew could possibly help them out on the otherside of the fence.
In my point of view, the fact that Andy chooses a fence with a connection to his father gives his robbery plan a tone of revenge. Imagine, if everything went according to the plan, he would have pulled a fast one on the person he despised the most.
shareI always figured they knew each other from the old days when the father was in the Jewelry thief business
AFTER going legit, and getting married (or vicea versea)He used the fence as a supplier, both clean goods and dirty