So is the whole point of this movie is that Lauren wasn't "raped" (for lack of a better word), Paul didnt hit on that guy and Sean didnt have sex with that girl... or did i miss something
"Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more. It's contrast."
Pretty sure you missed a LOT, if that's what you came away with.
shareThe direction of the movie could have been better.
bushtony and his mother suffer from Congential Stupidtiy and they didn't see it coming.
[deleted]
She was raped because she was unconcious
"Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more. It's contrast."
I agree, Lauren was raped opening scene. she didnt give consent to camera guy, she passed out so even if she did give consent it was voided at that point and she sure didnt give consent to being filmed while douche-bag townie raped her. My thought is the final scene trumps first scene-- especially since it rewound. so yeah none of the firstr scene's sex happened.
were we watching the same movie ...of course she was raped you need to look up the definition if you are still unsure
shareI agree. I don't think OP is trying to start a discussion on the definition of rape. If anyone can watch that scene and really believe it wasn't rape and not be shocked by it there's something wrong with them.
I think what the OP is actually saying is that when the end of the world party is shown at the end of the film, the characters perform completely different actions. Paul, rather than hit on the in-the-closet gay guy, is sitting outside by himself. Lauren walks outside to talk to Paul rather than flirt with camera guy and Sean tears up the letter and walks out rather than go over to Kate Bosworth's character.
The movie doesn't really provide an explanation nor is the rationale behind the filmmakers doing this entirely clear but the impression is that the film rewinds from the opening flash forward and then unfolds and for some reason, things turn out differently.
They started *beep* her while she was unconscious...nothing about that is willing. And if you honestly think she deserved to be puked on and have all that done to her because apparently she 'wasn't very nice', you deserve just as much.
shareYou're incredibly stupid. She was unconscious when they raped her. And what's the "like most women" about? Women aren't slaves to their sex drives like men are. You're f^cking tools.
share*Holds up a copy of the book* ... I really think it makes it clearer.
I found the opening chapter quite difficult to read for this reason; I perceived it as rape, something that has touched a nerve with me for the past decade or so.
For lack of a better word?
shareIn the movie, Lauren herself seems to view the whole situation with an "Oh, well-these-things-happen" attitude. Does that differ from the book? I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't, given the author's penchant for nihilism (this is just what I've gathered from the movie adaptations of his works, having never read any of them).
shareI believe she was raped. But some argue she wasn't. By law though she was
"Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more. It's contrast."
"But some argue she wasn't"
Some also argue the earth is flat.
Some also argue that the word flat means a shared house. People define words how they see fit, if your definition of rape fits with what happened then it most definitly is rape.
"Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more. It's contrast."
People define words how they see fitThat doesn't make them correct. Words have specific, accepted meanings. Language isn't a 'free for all', sorry. share
yeah thats true what i mean is that the dictionary definition of a word isn't so extensive that there isn't room for interpretation. Usually defintions are quite broad
"Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more. It's contrast."
Paul was holding his ribs and slightly limping as he left the party, so he did get roughed up after making a pass at the wrong guy. We see Lauren taking NYU Film Student guy upstairs, so if that happened then the rape happened. It seems the only person who chooses a different fate is Sean, who walks out of the party instead of going after the blonde.
At least that's my take (having never read the book).
I agree with the above poster, I always took that final scene to mean that it was only Sean who wound up choosing a different fate. Paul still got beat up by that guy, and Lauren still lost her virginity and got vomitted on...unfortunately.
It's just like Gandhi said, "A smile don't cost nothin', Sugar"
To add on to the discussion about rape...
Lauren was raped, but she may not have realized it at the time. Some people don't realize it is rape until much later.
Technically, by today's definitions of rape, Sean raped Kate Bosworth's character and Lauren's roommate was raped by the football team. They were both drunk and or high.
By the way, raped or not, technically speaking Lauren still lost her virginity to that drunk POS townie.
Were the members of the football team drunk? If so, she raped them by that definition. They don't let us know whether or not those football players were drunk so it is an open question.
That shows what is so absurd about that definition. Most college one-night stands would be considered rape on BOTH parties as both parties are usually drunk. I don't know of any of my friends who had a sober one-night stand, so I guess they were all raped. Given that the girls they slept with were also drunk I guess they raped those girls, so both parties should be prosecuted for rape according to the letter of the law. Boy does that make a whole lot of sense.
ummm...what word but rape would fit sleeping with a passed out girl?
,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams
Its rape in the film and the book, but the book she talks more about it and is more graphic in that first chapter.
Also in the book she mentions she's still 'technically a Virgin' due to the type of rape.
Are all of you (except for a couple people that apparently got it) really that ignorant that you completely missed what the OP was asking? It had NOTHING whatsoever to do with whether or not the act in that opening scene was a rape, he was simply asking whether or not the events at the start of the movie did or did not happen, since the end of the movie implies that things turned out completely different.
Amazing how some idiot and the lemmings that followed turned this into an argument over what the definition of rape is, and of the 3 pages of responses, only a couple people even addressed the actual question as it was intended.
Clearly this movie doesn't provide any solid answers, so all I can say to answer this now very old question is that it does appear those events at the beginning of the movie never actually transpired, since things work out differently at the end of the movie. I don't think anybody knows for sure except the writer and perhaps the director. This was one crazy movie.
so all I can say to answer this now very old question is that it does appear those events at the beginning of the movie never actually transpired, since things work out differently at the end of the movie
Haha thanks for replying! I agree that the begining events are changed at the end, just thought i'd mention that i'am a girl, Not a "he"
But cheers for actually taking the time to answer such an old post and addressing the irrelevance of all the arguing!