MovieChat Forums > The Shield (2002) Discussion > i think the show wanted us to really lik...

i think the show wanted us to really like Dutch and the finale reflected

posted 10 years ago by nuclear-7
52 replies | jump to latest

Anyone else think that the show was eventually trying to get us very hard to get behind Dutch and root for him and see him as a truly likable character? I mean, he seemed to spend much of the series struggling with not getting enough respect from anyone in the Barn besides Claudette and taking the lion's share of the Strike Team's abuse whenever they decided to direct it at someone not in their gang. Then there was some particularly frightening scenes when he was trying to catch some infamous serial killers. And then in the finale, the ending they give him is basically a Disney fairy tale one next to what the Strike Team and others get. Which to me seems like they wanted to convince the audience that he deserved this very happy, by Shields standards, ending and we were ideally meant to get behind him. Is it just me?

[–] smoko 10 years ago

@nuclear-7 Well it worked on me. I liked Dutch from the moment he busted that smartass serial killer Sean Taylor while the strike team and some cops were watching them on CCTV (s01e10). One of my favorite scenes of the series.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] smoko 9 years ago

@ajcdjb ...and Claudette wasn't that great herself.
Now you take that back!

[–] venusboys3 9 years ago

Dutch and Claudette were my favorite characters all through the series. I really disliked Vic at first (and never did grow that fond of him)and though he was the main focus the show wouldn't have been nearly as good without the decent human beings around him, going about their jobs honestly, to serve as a contrast.
Dutch and Claudette were the 'Dragnet' truth of police work vs. the 'action hero' antics of the Strike Team.

[–] sofreshandsoclean7 9 years ago

lol Dutch chances of ever being liked by fans was thrown away when he killed that cat!

[–] tegelane_5 9 years ago

I don't think Dutch was the (serial)killer, but he was most likely the one who could be such criminal. Who knows maybe looking into someones psychos psyche makes him do more than killing a cat. The fact that he didn't want to help Billings doesn't change anything-if he had done some crime, he wouldnt want any limelight.

[–] adam-desborough 9 years ago

Kurt Sutter wanted Dutch to be revealed at the end to have a torture studio in his basement.
Imagine if after the credits of the final episode we got an additional scene of Dutch leaving the station for the day, smiling and saying goodbye to a few colleagues, getting in his car, arriving home, whistling "Hungry Like the Wolf" as he enters, walking down the stairs to his basement and catching a quick glance of some chains on the walls and hearing a low, muffled groan..........
Fade to black.

[–] Jan_El_Senor 9 years ago

Good thing Kurt Sutter didn't get his way, because that would have been stupid.

Please stop.

[–] msinmendo 8 years ago

I agree, and it would have taken something away from the whole series. Part of what drove Dutch's character was his always feeling inferior to Vic. I'm currently rewatching it from Season 1 (for about the 4th time), and he got that win with the serial killer in the first season by basically flipping the narrative of being a wimp. The other cops gathered to watch him being savaged, and ended up applauding him. But that respect did not last because he was so awkward and nerdy. He was suspicious of Vic from the beginning, and Vic was able to keep him on the defensive by playing the alpha male, and Dutch could not compete on that level. Sure, he did some creepy and cruel things, was awkward and nerdy and got puffed up about his own intellect, and that undermined him, so Vic was able to play him, and use it against him.

But! In the end, he was the better detective, the better cop, the better friend, the better person, and it was clear he was all that from the beginning, if you pay attention. He didn't have Vic's gang of toughs, Vic's prostitute informants, Vic's machismo, Vic's charisma, or Vic's flexible morality. And yet in the end he very nearly won; I'd argue he had a moral victory at least, along with Claudette. Their friendship is one of the greatest things about the show, the ups and downs of it, the way it winds up at the end.

Making him a creepy serial killer would have undone all of that and cheapened his character in exchange for easy thrills. If it was Kurt Sutter's idea, well, we saw what his unfettered ideas did to Sons of Anarchy, so I'm glad the other writers nixed it.

Dutch and Claudette were the heroes to Vic's anti-hero. Not because they were perfect or unflawed at all, but because they were sincerely trying to do good and failing as often as not. To have made Dutch into a monster would have just nulled all of it.

[–] Jan_El_Senor 8 years ago

I always felt bad for Dutch, because his love for Claudette always seemed unrequited. Dude loves her to pieces (not romantically) and it just doesn't seem like she cares as much as he does. It makes me sad....

Please stop.

[–] msinmendo 8 years ago

She was a bit cruel to him in the beginning. To be fair he made himself an easy target by being a pompous ass. I think by the end, though, she'd come to appreciate him. I'm rewatching for the first time in years and am still not done with Season 1, so I may change my mind, but in my memory the impression I had in the final season was that she had come to love him back. I don't think it was ever a romantic love, just a deep mutual respect, trust, and affection that went up and down, was shattered and repaired, and in the end was as solid as a friendship could be.

[–] msinmendo 8 years ago

I also just gotta say this... I remember after watching the finale of The Shield, watching an online finale with the cast, and Michael Chiklis made a point of calling out Jay Karnes for his performance. Until that moment I did not know who Jay Karnes was; I had him confused with another actor. Then Dutch stepped forward looking very sheepish and I thought, WOW. Of course. How could I have missed that.

I have seen him in something else since as a villain -- Burn Notice maybe? -- that's a show I just have on in the background -- and he can portray sinister very well. To be vulnerable, defensive, creepy, compassionate, heroic, weird, funny, and brave all in the same character -- well Bravo, Jay Karnes. He, like Walton Goggins, should have been up for an Emmy.

[–] Jan_El_Senor 8 years ago

Karnes was a villain is Son of Anarchy and Burn Notice.

And while Claudette does come to respect Dutch, she never seems to love and care about him the way he does about her. It's not a huge thing they make a big deal about on the show, but it's there, and it's actually a bit heartbreaking when you realize it. Pay attention on your re-watch season 4 onward.

Please stop.

[–] msinmendo 8 years ago

Could be, and I will. As I've started this rewatch I'm just blown away all over again how *beep* fantastic this show is. The Shield has (IMO) been unfairly overlooked in the discussion of the "Golden Age of Television". Not entirely of course; it's been analyzed in books about the subject. And yet it seems to have fallen into some weird crack -- just after Sopranos and just before social media/streaming, or something. It deserves to be up there right along with Breaking Bad and well above The Walking Dead.

Whatever the case I think Dutch was a bit like Sol Starr of Deadwood -- kind of a quiet wonder, but even better, because the character of SS, though fantastic, was never explored the way Dutch was. I just love his character.

[–] Jan_El_Senor 8 years ago

The Shield has (IMO) been unfairly overlooked in the discussion of the "Golden Age of Television".

Agreed. My wife and I are currently rewatching it as well. We are on Season 3.

Please stop.

[–] Jan_El_Senor 9 years ago

I think they did that the whole show. Yeah, he was a dork sometimes, but Dutch was always awesome. The way I wanted him to succeed in season 1 when he nailed that serial killer made me root for Dutch almost all the time for the rest of the series.

Please stop.

[–] SuperCore 8 years ago

My only annoyance with Dutch in the beginning was his need for glory and credit. Once he matured beyond that (with the positive influence of Claudette) he really grew as a character. And I liked him because of how mean Vic and Shane could be to him. I always root for the underdog.

"They have a grill, it's this grill. Now you have it...it's called America."

[–] mgreen9715 8 years ago

I loved Dutch.

I had first seen the actor on Burn Notice where he plays a great villain.

[–] Milkdoesabodygood 8 years ago

He had a wife and she divorced HIM which made the others lose respect for him at the beginning.

Spoiler alert for them spoil sports out there! Y'all like spoiled milk, stop crying over it!

[–] Naphthous 8 years ago

When was he ever unlikable? Sure, he has his flaws, but nothing truly abhorrent - he's human. Fairly early in the show he specifically, consciously chooses not to plant evidence to bring in someone he knows is guilty; i.e. he takes the high road. He looks like a realistic image of a good person - far from perfect, yet true to his moral convictions and working for something bigger than himself. Nothing about the finale's treatment of him is inconsistent with the rest of the show, all of which paints that picture of him.

[–] depaul_rules 8 years ago

He was a great character. I could see how people may not like him because he was a little full of himself at times. He was a great detective and him and Claudette together were second to none.

After he cracked the first serial killer case, then he became respected by pretty much everyone in the barn. What a great scene when he went to his car after that and basically broke down and cried. I think he did this because all he ever wanted was people to respect him and his work.

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