MovieChat Forums > Enough (2002) Discussion > Makes a mockery of abused women and dome...

Makes a mockery of abused women and domestic violence


This movie really was just terrible. Now, I have fortunately never had to deal with domestic abuse, but it my opinion this movie did not help in the fight against it. Jen Lopez gets smacked around twice and goes into hiding to learn self defense???? I think it's safe to say that does not happen. I can not believe that the "moral" of the story was "kill the guy before he kills you." Yes, all abused women, especially if you have children involved, please beat the crap out of your husbands. It's not murder if its self-defense. What bullcrap. It's not murder if you defend yourself, yes, but if you go into trainign and DELIBERATELY start the fight then I think thats a little different. Hahahah what crap. THank you Jennifer Lopez for slowing down the fight against domestic violence.


hugz kisses and candy
Cinthya

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I think Mitch had too much power for him to be believable. If a friend of mine asked me to spy on and threaten his wife I wouldn't be friends with him anymore. As for physically abused women, why don't they ask brothers/cousins/ ex boyfriends to kick the crap out of their husbands?

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i wouldn't know but i think that women would be scared of their husbands so much that they don't try and escape or maybe, they just don't feel that they are worth as much as they actually are because they have gotten abused so badly and they think that they deserve the treatment that they recieve which is total crap because no one deserves to go through all the stuff that they put up with

i think that these women are very brave, and that their husbands are the ones who are undeserving

just to make this fair some women abuse their husbands so its not fair to blame the men all the time

about the movie i don't think that the movie was offensive because it shows, even if its not true, what the women/men go through and in this case she gets revenge for everything that he did to her which i think is the perfect ending because even though it would never happen it did this one time !

i hope this sheds some light?!?!

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I think I know what you mean. This kind of stuff happens on Jerry Springer all of the time. A woman or a man is abused and to Jerry's bewilderment the abused always takes back the abuser. I think the people who are abused are not very intelligent. Nobody with half a brain would put up with nonsense like that.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I work in a domestic violence agency, and I can honestly tell you many victims of domestic violence ARE very intelligent. It takes a special kind of intelligence to survive in a home where you are being tortured physically and psychologically. The reasons why victims stay and/or take back the abuser vary, but they almost all boil down to self-esteem and fear.
(85-95% of victims who report abuse are female, thus I use the pronoun she for the victim and the pronoun he for the abuser. Domestic violence does occur with female perpetrators and male victims, and also in same-sex relationships. However, to simplify the language, I will use pronouns that reflect the majority of reported cases.)
Abusive relationships are immersed in insults and threats that convince the victim that she deserves this treatment and deserves no better. Also, the abuser convinces the victim that if she leaves, she will a) never be able to support herself or her chilren, b)lose custody of her children, c)never be loved by anyone ever again, and/or d) be killed. Many abusers tell their victims "If I can't have you, no one else can, either".
Before you start making comments about why people "put up with nonsense like that", perhaps you should speak with some victims and find out why they stay. It has nothing to do with the victim's intelligence or any other aspect of the victim that the abuser has not destroyed or induced. ABUSE IS A CHOICE THE ABUSER CHOOSES TO MAKE. IT IS NEVER THE VICTIM'S FAULT.
In regards to the movie, I do not advocate violence to solve violence, although some good points have been made in these posts about how going to the police is not always helpful and how the victim can be isolated from friends or family. However, I applaud this movie for the sheer fact that it gets people thinking about domestic violence. If you disagree with it and want to end it, learn about the real issue and then do something about it.
Thank you.

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I can tell you, Chrisbc-1, that I was disturbed by your response. I do agree that Jerry Springer does make a mockery of this or any other subject dealing with men/women issues, but that does not deserve to "generalize" these people. I am one of these people. I had no prior knowledge that the "pig" that I was dating would become abusive. He was not possesive, he never lost his temper, he didn't try to tell me who to hang out with or what to wear, ... any of the pre-signs that would be signs of trouble. One day, he asked me do something and when I said that I would do it in a minute, he walked over to me and slammed me against the wall by my throat. I didn't understand where it had come from or why it was happening, but it did. I never thought of myself as a "stupid" person or not of high intelligence; I REALLY didn't see it coming. I was one of the lucky ones; he didn't strike me with his fists, kick me or any of the other disgusting things that can happen. I think the look on my face made him stop~for that moment, at least. I never talked to him or saw him again after that; I asked him to leave and he did. I can't say he didn't follow me around for awhile or try to call, I just didn't except his calls and never went out alone. My father, who is 6'foot and weighs over 200 lbs. did have to threaten him when he came to the door, while I was at work. Eventually, it stopped, but this isn't always the case. Like I said, I was VERY lucky! Sometimes, when a person has low self-esteem or self-worth, they take it like THEY did something wrong and will stay. Sometimes, they feel like they can't do any better or they just "love the person too much". It's not that they AREN'T intelligent~they are AFRAID! I can only hope that you never find yourself in a similar situation(men can be abused, too!) or someone you love is. Would you call yourself stupid? Please have empathy for these people and be there for them when they need it~try helping, not insulting!

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[deleted]

"As for physically abused women, why don't they ask brothers/cousins/ ex boyfriends to kick the crap out of their husbands?"

To answer this question, a lot of times women have had abusive past relationships or they have had a family life that was also abusive. Many times they can't ask their brothers/ cousins/fathers etc to help because they have been abused by them as well.

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Chrisbc-1, I started to give you a mini-speech right out of real life that would make all your nerve endings curl, but I don't have the marketable rights to it. So I'm *begging* you to accept as fact that what you described happens all the time. About 25 years years ago women across the nation (US) were being murdered by their ex-love stalkers, often aided by their friends. Sometimes the stories were several a week, more often by the week. Not so common today, thanks in part to some new but as-yet-wimpy laws, but it *does* still happen.

As soon as I figured out where this movie was going I turned it off. Yech!

:-)

--
I have dial-up and my life is just fine.

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I have to agree that in real life, Jennifer's character would have been arrested for breaking into her husbands house, even though they are technically still married and California IS a community property state; but that's beside the point.

Yes, the movie is incredible in that Slim and her daughter are on the run from their very wealthy and abusive husband and father, respectively; and that she somehow manages to get trained to fight in order to break into her husband's new house and kill him...premeditatively.

I'm just gonna come right out and say that in a perfect world, violence inficted by any gender against their opposite is wrong. That, as the cliche goes, is the bottom line.

I, for one, writing as a former victim of domestic abuse -- I was emotionally, physically, and even sexually abused by my ex-fiancee during the time she and I were together. I can tell you for a fact that the movie is unreal because Slim would have been arrrested for retaliating against her husband to the point of killing him. Moreso, she would have permanently lost her daughter to the system because of her actions.

I know this because I got fed up with my fiancee's abuse too many times. Every time she would hit me, I would fight back by pushing her away or restraining her. I was the type to never fight with anyone unless they throw the first punch -- it didn't matter if they were man or woman.

Anyway, one day several years ago, my fiancee and I argued heatedly on the way back home. When we stopped directly in front of the apartment, I got out first, she got out behind me. She then started choking me down to the ground, and I was afraid that she was going to kill me out in the open.

I pried her hands off of me and pushed her away. She stumbled about twelve feet over a patch of grass toward the pavement. When she reached the pavement, she fell on her face without so much as putting her hands out in front of her.

I got arrested that day for my part in that mutually combative altercation. I don't care what the cops say, I know what happened because I was part and parcel of the whole thing.

I deserved the punishment I got from the court, and I accepted every bit of help they offered me in understanding where I went wrong and how to avoid being in a position like that ever again.

What I am extremely bitter about is that nobody questioned whether my ex provoked the whole incident as well. In most other states, we both would have lost custody of our children, but those of you from California know differently. She got away with her part because she had marks and I didn't. Ultimately, the truth will come out in the end.

At any rate, I just wish that either the independent or mainstream film media would one day come out with a film to truly show just how wrong mutually combative domestic violence is, and that they would also show that women can be just as guilty as the men beyond what was shown in ENOUGH.

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As someone who has worked with both male and female victims of domestic violence, I sympathsize with you circumstances. I wish the media industry would focus on 3 things:
1. Stop making domestic violence a black vs. white issue or good vs. evil. As your example provided there is a gray area on who is the victim.
2. Men are victims too, not every man is Farah's husband in the burning bed. By protraying them as always evil in movies like Enough, Burning Bed and numerous ones on Oxygen type channels it makes it extremely difficult for male victims to come forward.
In my opinion leading to the statistics that overwhelming show women as victims. An analogy to this is stating that racism didn't exist at the turn of the century since blacks didn't report it and no one was convicted of lynchings in some southern stats. Men always protrayed as evil = men never being a victim = men not reporting violence to police.
3. Making movies that show the abundance of resources avaliable to victims of domestic violence and the effectiveness of those agencies. In the county i live in our domestic violence agencies have done a wonderful job in many cases of protecting victims and creating positive choices, environments and relationships for the future. Movies typically create the perception that law enforecement doesn't care and agencies can't really help. This is not true. Law enforecement and various agencies can help, but further education and positive images will help.

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its obvious men hate this movie. and the thing with mitch having "too much power" to be believable is *beep* i have been stalked and the police did not believe me for a second. so you take things into your own hands. this movie is good and it does not promote women killing husbands who smack them once or twise.
www.myspace.com/naomie_iv2

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LatinaLibra wow now that you got your 2 cents out, can i smack you back into reality?if you have never been in domestic violence, why the hell are you saying anything??

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i think a little more than getting "smacked around twice" happened.
watch the movie again.

i'd have killed him.

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I can tell you honestly my dad abused my mom and all the cops told her to do was leave then of course I think he got hisself in jail but thats about it. I think some people can fight back if they would like it will just make it worst but the whole point is the guy or even women no that they cant control as they want to. In the movie enough she gets martial arts so when she goes to confront him she can protect herself. Men and women are all guilty of violence in the home but i think its mostly the man because they are built as women are not. I dont know i havent had to deal with it for around 10 years or so but i can tell you one thing if someone is in an abusive enviornment and especially have kids get out of there can that could really effect the kids. I know this from experience.i have experienced and believe me it was horrible and if a guy ever layed a hand on me i was say goodbye and if he wont let you leave then just keep trying dont let him try to calm down and say oh honey i forgive you cause all waht will happen is youll get hit again and again. I will stop there but i think the whole point of the movie is a women may not look strong to fight back but they can if its that bad.

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I will have to agree with you on that. I volunteer in a domestic violence intervention program, and I found this movie laughable. The story, situations, and characters were so forced.
The only things this realistically highlighted were 1) That even relatives who know of the abuse may still blame the victim 2)domestic violence occurs no matter what your social or economic status 3)Domestic violence victims make mistakes.
However, her mistakes had nothing to do with the cycle of abuse, where the victim is abused, convinced to stay, goes through the honeymoon period which brings some relief and hope, only to be abused again, etc etc. They had only to do with her flight. And those mistakes make abuse victims look, as one poster erroneously said, "not very intelligent". Abuse is beyond getting hit, people, it is a cycle that dismantles the victim psychologically and emotionally to be under the control of the abuser. That's why it takes victims an average of 7 tries to leave.
I guess if someone wants to watch the movie as an action-thriller, then go for it, you'll probably still be bored or disgusted. But as an "examination of a woman finding her inner strength and refusing to be a victim"...well....I'm sure you can find something else. Go to a women's support group and hear some real stories. Or better yet, hear an abused man's story, and find out how deep the culture of pride and control goes to hurt people. Listen to an abuser; most of them are not evil, sadistic, nuts. This doesn't mean that what they do is right, but it isn't just a matter of kicking someone's @$$ to straighten them out and get them to stop.
Of course, I say all this, and just a month ago in Terre Haute a man kidnapped his kids and killed one of them, even after his wife had been in shelter and gotten a restraining order. She did everything right, and now because of a delayed amber alert (7 hours)....well, it does make a set of brass knuckles look appealing.

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Kill or be killed thats the point the movie is getting at. She knows he will kill her if she leaves so when she gets the courage to finally leave she has to train to prepare herself for that situation. He sent out men looking for her to in fact kill her so yeah I would think its safe to assume learning how to fight and protect yourself and then taking the husband by surprise would be the way to go.

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I don't believe it makes a mockery of abused women....I'm hoping that anyone seeing it will at the very least realize they can DO SOMETHING and not just remain a victim forever, or until an early death. As someone pointed out, Slim made the right choices...she left, she enlisted the help of family and friends, sought out legal advice, before resorting to learning self-defense. Even tho' she only had 1 month of training, I think the point of the movie was that she at least made an effort to change her circumstances and take away the power/control Mitch had. I found it ironic that she was assumed "not smart" because she was a waitress, but when she made that carefully planned getaway, all I could think of was, Wow! I would NEVER have known to do half that stuff! (pepper spray in her watch band, combo lock on the car door, bags packed, etc...) I realize it's a work of fiction, but a victim could pick up a few ideas from it!

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Spoken like an idiot who has NEVER been in the situation. Just shut up.


www.myspace.com/mblahnikluver

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According to a psychologist who wrote a comment about this movie, the movie is quite realistic up until the ending. All the stages of abuse she goes to, how people react to it, everything, is true. The ending was Hollywood, but her struggle was real.

Tomorrow's just your future yesterday!

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See, that I can believe. Of course she was terrified and didn't know what to do. THe guy's mom knew and police couldnt really help. That all makes sense to me because I know it happens. However, self-defense training? Gadgets that knock out cell phones? Planting evidence? Please.
So many battered women in the world, and this is the solution that people come up with? Ridiculous.

hugz kisses and candy
Cinthya

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I wonder why she didn't just shoot him with one of the guns that she found.

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Good point, davidbowieluvsme.

but then again....no big Hollywood fight scene.

Slim was foolish in one respect though. Like the attorney said to her, she had TWO chances to put his violence on record, and ignored them both. Even after he threatened her in the kitchen!!
Okay, she did go and ask questions, and he had friends who were cops.....but she still should have pursued it.

Also, the attorney refusing to help her??? WTF? Is that realistic at ALL??


"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."
-DM

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He refused to help her because they wouldn't have been able to make a case because she had no documented proof of Mitch's abuse.

Why does he get to get up? If he gets up, we'll all get up! It'll be anarchy!

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[deleted]

I wish more women were smart like you.

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Uh, well you do have a point, as . . . she did slow his ass down. Believe that -- hehe. No more problems from him. One down, so women take note. Sounds about right. Oh, and would some of you get it straight about her whole "self defense" thing? It was a setup -- to LOOK like self defense. The police didn't know she broke in, and that's part of the purpose of the note, as if she was asked there. She knew what she was doing, protecting she and her daughter. Sure, it's not always the extent people would have to go, but take this movie as one of those times someone did have to. Under certain circumstances for people, sometimes it's best to be in that position yourself before trying to judge and criticize. Trust me, when personally confronted, a whole lotta, lotta straight men that are hard on the street are like women in jail, for instance. Circumstances do that sometimes.

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