Oh how I hate the Legends episode!!

I strongly agree. This has always been my reaction to the episode.

I've never understood exactly what was "evil" about Ray. Not only do I have a lot of sympathy for him, you can even see what he did as heroic -- taking a world that was ruined and trying to construct a livable reality from it.

Ironically, the episode can be read as a textbook parallel to American interventionism: Take a society that's functioning, attack it, ruin it, and leave it a chaos, supposedly because "It's for their own good." Yeah, right.

There were quite a few cases in this series where the JL seemed like self-righteous interventionists, but the Legends episode is THE WORST.

As the O.P. pointed out, Ray never attacked them until J'onn started attacking HIM.

Ahhh...LEGENDS. Great episode.

Let's correct some things:
a. The Justice League did NOT attack him first. After b.s.'ing them for a LONG time Ray was basically given a chance to come clean (seeing as he was the only one who knew the whole truth). He chose not to. J'onn, a Martian not prone to rash or violent acts, probed his mind. Ray, realizing the jig was up, got pissed-off, revealed his true form, and then HE blasted J'onn unconscious.

b. John Stewart and Hawkgirl confronted everybody AFTER the ice cream man warns them cryptically, with serious fear in his voice, "Shhh...HE will hear you!" and speeds away afraid to say more.

c. John and Shayera were under the presumption that the rest of the people of Seaboard City were real and that the superheroes they had been working with were fake in some way; "clones...androids?". It was only when all the illusion was disappeared at the end ONLY THEN did they come to the conclusion "Oh...this sole nuclear war survivor recreated his whole city he lived in including the people who lived there and the superheroes who protected it". No other people were around except the Justice Guild at that point. So when those guys disappeared it was a natural assumption that EVERYBODY they had seen had been a "figment" of Ray's imagination and illusionary powers.

d. A handful of people is not insignificant. If they were fighting for the freedom of just one person, it would, in theory, be worth it. But anyhow, let us be clear about this point. These people were clearly NOT enjoying themselves nor were there lives proceeding "freely". As the milk man says the nightmare was driving a milk truck for 40 years. Think about it. Think about never being allowed to stop and never being allowed to do anything else. Never being allowed to progress or think or struggle or live on your own. Not even being able to die. It might not take even a full 40 years before you were praying for the release of death.

e. Ray was not a kid. He was more than 40 years old.

f. Ray is NOT necessarily dead. In fact that conclusion is studiously avoided (and not just in this episode). J'onn points out, when the real Seaboard city is revealed when Ray is on the ground, that Ray could not continue the illusion under the strain. If we are to be informed that Ray had been killed, J'onn would have more accurately stated something like, "Ahh...and now we get to see reality now that his dead mind is no longer active." That may seem like splitting hairs or leaving a bit of a plot hole, but that is what the writers did.

...this next point is very important as this reveals why this episode is so dang good.

g. If Ray is dead, The Justice League did NOT kill him...the "Justice GUILD" killed him. That part you could NOT have missed. They sacrificed themselves to save others. That was the spirit of what they were when they were alive. That is how they died originally; fighting in defense of Seaboard City. And that is the beauty of it: In a way, Ray did the right thing. His creations killed him. He, in effect, committed suicide. His imaginary HEROES came to life and did, what he remembered them for doing...doing the right thing no matter what. Ray may have been good once, but maybe, in the end, he realized that what he was doing to the other survivors was in fact wrong and had been wrong for 40 years...even though it was "working" for him. He made amends. ...and, in a way, maybe in his own mind, he HAD to die.


On November 6, 2012...God blessed America

So, I just watched season 1 not that long ago, but also went to find that clip to see if what you said was true. Are you out of your mind? They attacked him first? What were you watching? Ray attacked first: http://youtu.be/t_4lHSvEeSY?t=32m15s.

Ray wasn't a kid either, he was a monster. Not to mention, the accident that turned him into a monster was 40-50 years before. He was not a child. You're wrong on every level.

I loved that story arc on even level. The throwback to another era was hilarious.

For my latest movie reviews and news:http://www.hesaidshesaidreviewsite.com/

So, yeah, I am going to repeat a point I made earlier because...far more important than entertaining the idiocy of saying the JL attacked first or that Martian Manhunter is a serial "mind" rapist...it emphasizes the complete beauty of an episode that is often picked as one of many viewer's top 10 favorites:

...this next point is very important as this reveals why this episode is so dang good.

g. If Ray is dead, The Justice League did NOT kill him...the "Justice GUILD" killed him. That part you could NOT have missed. They sacrificed themselves to save others. That was the spirit of what they were when they were alive. That is how they died originally; fighting in defense of Seaboard City. And that is the beauty of it: In a way, Ray did the right thing. His creations killed him. He, in effect, committed suicide. His imaginary HEROES came to life and did, what he remembered them for doing...doing the right thing no matter what. Ray may have been good once, but maybe, in the end, he realized that what he was doing to the other survivors was in fact wrong and had been wrong for 40 years...even though it was "working" for him. He made amends. ...and, in a way, maybe in his own mind, he HAD to die.

Always thought that episode is so scary. There's something so creepy about all the people living in a fantasy land in the nuclear wasteland.

I agree with all of this.

lots of fun references though.
I'd say its a pretty good episode.
I'll watch it again, you could be right.

Neither the JLA nor the Justice Guild killed Ray. The JGA attacked him because he was trying to kill the JLA for ruining his "perfect" world. They forced him to burn out his mutated abilities.

If anyone has a gripe, it should be about how no one held in Ray's thrall for 40 years aged four decades. You'd think that, once free of his control, they'd age normally.