MovieChat Forums > Conspiracy (2001) Discussion > I STILL CANT FATHOM THE LACK OF HUMANITY...

I STILL CANT FATHOM THE LACK OF HUMANITY.....

posted 10 years ago by mariapezzano204
23 replies | jump to latest

I suppose being born in Australia of italian heritage(my parents emigrated in their early twenties to Australia)could explain why i still cant comprehend the lack of humanity shown by this gathering, I mean italians (USUALLY) are not by nature cruel and inhumane...its not in our make-up. Ive read many autobiographies by holocaust survivors and whenever their was mention of italians(especially soldiers and prisoners of war)the italians always tried to help the jewish people whenever they could. There of course was many exceptions like the ITALIAN POLICE COMMISSIONER ar--ho-e who helped dr mengele escape to argentina. LOWLIFE!!..
I watch this film and i cant believe the depths of evil that was unleashed..There is no way in heaven or hell that human beings had the right to do what they did...Bleeding heart...empathetic....you bet i am...and damn proud i am.
I made my kids watch this film...and we all had many discussions about it...my question to all you out there is this..DO YOU THINK THIS FILM SHOULD BE SHOWN IN SCHOOLS AS PART OF A HISTORY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST?
I personally think it should,because i feel that it shows on many levels what world war 2 was about... not just about the final solution..to me it shows what the world was up against...the ruthfulness,the arrogance.the aggression and the total lack of honor and integrity of the third reich..... what do you think?

[–] Stevicus-2 10 years ago

I suppose being born in Australia of italian heritage(my parents emigrated in their early twenties to Australia)could explain why i still cant comprehend the lack of humanity shown by this gathering, I mean italians (USUALLY) are not by nature cruel and inhumane...its not in our make-up.

I would say this is probably true of most people of any ethnicity. Most Germans are/were decent and compassionate. Same could be said of most Russians, most French, most Japanese, most Americans, most Arabs, etc., etc. It's only those few malcontents, tyrants, and maniacs who are the ones who make history and create the stereotypes. Cruelty and inhumanity might be aspects of human nature which could conceivably affect any individual under the right circumstances, not necessarily any particular ethnic group.

I made my kids watch this film...and we all had many discussions about it...my question to all you out there is this..DO YOU THINK THIS FILM SHOULD BE SHOWN IN SCHOOLS AS PART OF A HISTORY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST?
I personally think it should,because i feel that it shows on many levels what world war 2 was about... not just about the final solution..to me it shows what the world was up against...the ruthfulness,the arrogance.the aggression and the total lack of honor and integrity of the third reich..... what do you think?

I think it could be a useful teaching tool for older kids, although they'd probably get more out of it if they read supplementary materials to give them more background as to what was going on. Without knowing some of the basic background information, I have a feeling that the average younger viewer might have difficulty following the dialogue.

I have mixed feelings about showing commercial works of entertainment in history classes since they're not intended as documentaries. Herman Wouk (who wrote "Winds of War" and "War and Remembrance") once wrote "It may grieve the judicious that the great public learns much of its history from works of entertainment. But such is the case."

[–] mariapezzano204 10 years ago

i agree to a certain extent.....i would be very confident in saying that the french,the italians,americans etc etc,would NEVER have turned into depraved animals NO MATTER WHAT....
SOMETHING IS MISSING HERE...IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE...

A few bad apples...sure...granted...but this went way beyond that minority.. thanks for your reply..i appreciate your point of view.

[–] horsenbuggy 9 years ago

The 1960s civil rights movement would like a word with you. Of course it wasn't as bad as building gas chambers and ovens, but they'd seen what happened in Germany from that.

Also, slave ships weren't much better than the gas chambers, certainly no better than the ghettos.

[–] velvetjoneslives 9 years ago

Don't forget one thing, and this was mentioned in the movie. The Nazi's did want to simply deport the Jews, but no one would take them. So while the blood is 99.9% on their hands, the allies also bear some of the blame for not being more welcoming to refugees. I think this is why you see almost blind openness in Europe today. They're willing to let almost anyone in, even those who freely admit that they wish to do them harm. Had the UK allowed Israeli to be reestablished, which was a goal both Jews and the Nazi's had in common, the outcome would have been dramatically different.

[–] fnj-07126 9 years ago

The blood is very much on the WORLD's hands. Not being more welcoming?! The entire world looked down on the Jews and wanted no part of them. Wouldn't take them as refugees; refused to even attempt effective action to disrupt the slave labor and death camp operations; treated them like dirt even after the war. The stain on humanity can NEVER be lived down.

Jews in the UK and US were discriminated against during (and after) the war; even in the US army. In the case of the US, it was as bad as the way we mistreated African-Americans.

It was no special weakness of the German society that enabled the murderous horror. You better believe all societies of the world are vulnerable to falling into evil ways. Look at the Rwanda and other genocides, the My Lai massacre, ISIS, even the Stanford Prison Experiment.

[–] roreyking (637) 7 years ago

"It was no special weakness of the German society that enabled the murderous horror. You better believe all societies of the world are vulnerable to falling into evil ways. Look at the Rwanda and other genocides, the My Lai massacre, ISIS, even the Stanford Prison Experiment."

You use My Lai and the Stanford Prison Experiement to equate all societies with that of the Third Reich and its murder of millions? Ridiculous.

[–] ljackson-53207 10 years ago

I'll play the devils advocate for opposing side debate. Yes, this should be shown to all mature students. It's also important to note not just this conference, but all events leading up to it. Yes, they started with restricting German Jews, then POW Jews, and POWs non-Jews of conquered nations and so on..a horrible sequence of events..now here's the devil...haven't you ever wanted to eliminate a group of people? Whether Jews or blacks? Gays or trannies? All money sucking attorneys, ex wives, the tax man? The wealthy because they're rich or the poor because they're poor? The Germans knew what they wanted but had a horrific way to achieve it..What would your perfect country look like?

[–] mariapezzano204 10 years ago

MY PERFECT COUNTRY WOULD HAVE THIS AS THE RULE OF ENTRY....

RESPECT AND HUMANITY would be my perfect countries slogan''

ALL HUMANITY IS EQUAL IN THE EYES OF GOD
LIVE AND LET LIVE

sure there are many groups i could live without as you mentioned...but you cant compare what was done to the jewish people and all the other chosen minorities..THIS WAS MURDER IN ITS TRUEST SENSE...COLD BLOODED APALLING DISGUSTING....😢😢😢

[–] ljackson-53207 10 years ago

Ok good answer..live and let live under god...your god..that was one of the problems for Germany. They didn't want the Jew god or the Jews who worshipped him. So now what? Cleanse your country of those who don't worship your god? Or do you mean any god? What if someone believes in no god?

[–] NGMI (1184) 4 years ago

You sound like a child. You believed everything you heard and never thought to see it any differently. You're not even part of the humanity you advocate for. You're an NPC. I bet if you were asked to take the imagine an apple test, you'd fail.

[–] fnj-07126 9 years ago

The difference between the Jews and most of the other groups you mention is one thing: Jews are hated for WHO THEY ARE. The others are mostly hated for HOW THEY ACT. That's not to excuse it or overlook the generalization, but it's a big difference. Of all groups, discrimination against the African-Americans come the closest to being who-they-are, but even there it's not quite the same.

People who cross the street to avoid encountering noisy, boisterous, dangerous-appearing African-Americans in groups do not behave the same way when they come on African-American businessmen with briefcases, or even workers or servicemen. Gays and trannies are mostly looked down on only if they put on in-your-face displays. It's not the same, is it? If you, minding your own business, are somehow identified as a Jew and discriminated against just for who you are, you can't will yourself to be not-a-Jew.

[–] gasivodo 10 years ago

It's just numbers! That is how!? Sit behind your desk, crunch the numbers..
It's easy. And THAT IS why it is so very, very scary...:-(

[–] marshaul 9 years ago

"Bleeding heart...empathetic....you bet i am...and damn proud i am. "

You're also hilariously tribalistic. In my experience, folks like that tend to possess shallow "empathy", and demonstrate "compassion" which is more about social posturing and less about genuine feeling for others.

[–] mariapezzano204 8 years ago

no honey,my empathy is real and definitely not shallow. I don't even know what 'SOCIAL POSTURING' is....and i cant be bothered to find out because it doesn't interest me!!

LIVE AND LET LIVE...NO MATTER WHAT RACE,RELIGION OR CREED...

IS THAT SO HARD????

just to add...apparently i an pretty intelligent with above average I.Q. blah blah blah
but i have a VERY VERY BIG HEART!! This is me...this is who i am and what i feel....and guess what??..... I LOVE THAT I LOVE AND CARE SO DEEPLY....💜💜💜💜💜💜.
in my experience i also have also come across selfish,mean spirited and absolute pathetic cretins.....what do you do?? i just try to be true to myself no matter what anyone else thinks......

[–] elasalle 9 years ago

Ah...the eyes and heart open to what is the horrors of any murder..the definition of evil is a lack of humanity ie empathy. Read any comment online or in the paper today and you get the same view..regardless of the victim..be it a Jewish person, someone from Africa, Syrian refugee or a rape victim. Its all the same and its the one thing that plagues the human condition. Our response to the suffering of the German and Japanese people after the war was just as lacking in empathy ie they deserved it, the issue isn't nationalism, it isn't German culture it isn't right wing politics, Stalin and his gang were just as evil. The issue is humans in general can turn their hearts off in a blink..and that is terrifying.

If you look since WW2 there has been genocide since but always comes back to one thing..a lack of humanity. whether its the SS, African warlords and child soldiers or Bosnian death squads(just as examples and I can give you examples from every corner of the earth), whats the commonality?...humans, we have a scary duality to our behavior..this is what we all need to watch for..its our one dangerous behavior and its with us today.

[–] carlc64 8 years ago

They have made an industry out of demonizing pretty much anyone who isn't a white heterosexual male. The only way they haven't been as bad as Eichmann and his crew are because they are (thankfully) a bunch of brain-dead moronic unintelligent idiots who ultimately just care about money.

[–] moviechatterer (16326) 4 years ago

sounds like the (large) contingent of posters on this site constantly complaining when the hero of a film isnt white , or the bad guy is white.

[–] JohnnyDoe (1950) 4 years ago

They were convinced the Jews were the root of all evil, i.e. they thought they did it for the greater good, i.e. the end justifies the means.

[–] moviechatterer (16326) 4 years ago

and what was their reasoning behind that?

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Any reading of history shows that humans are perfectly capable of the evils of genocide. The worsted part is, while we focus on one, there's at least one other doing the same.

My family was in Austria during this time. We had family sent to Mauthausen and Aushwitz. Only one came back. While this happened, my grandfather was suffering communist atrocities in Hungary in which multiple family members were shot, arrested, and disappeared for not toeing the line. While the majority of the Austrian story gets told, the Hungarian and USSR atrocities are ignored. Most of this is due to nazis documenting their horrors. Other regimes destroyed or didn't record the horrors.

I'd say Go ahead and show the film to teenagers in high school. Also, teach them of the gulags in Russia, the murderous rampage of the communists in China, Cuba, Vietnam, and North Korea. There's the horrors of the drug cartels in south and central America. Then we could point out the multiple factions of genocidal groups through the African continent and middle East.

Don't forget, you live a very comfortable life.

[–] roreyking (637) 3 years ago

@Anotherday: you left out the horrors of racism in the USA.

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

They already do. They've been doing it for decades. So it's covered.