MovieChat Forums > Frailty (2002) Discussion > Was anyone else offended by this movie?

Was anyone else offended by this movie?

posted 20 years ago by mommaslittlemonkeyman
372 replies | jump to latest

I'll start off by saying that I thought this was a well shot, well acted film. I thought that it started off well. The backstory was suspensful and made you think "What if?".

The message that I got from the ending was that there really are demons and angels and that Adam and his father could see them. This is evident by the fact that as soon as Adam touched the agent, the agent could not defend himself and had succumbed to the "power of god", the fact that no one could see the faces on the tape, and could not recall Adam's face. Regardless of the fact of whether he and his father had made up the other backgrounds of the "demons", Adam was made to seem correct.

Is the director telling us that there are in fact, demons and angels? If so, this is not only unfulfilling and sanctimonious, but it is a real cheat for the script.

Please someone write whether I just got the wrong take on this movie and maybe I am incorrect, or if this what one was supposed to take this movie as...

[–] gangalley 20 years ago

Yes. the movie is saying that Adam was telling the truth and Dad was not just a dellusional sicko. I don't understand why that would offend you. What do you have to be offended over?

[–] InfernoFilms 20 years ago

Would you also be offended by a movie that says zombies are real? What about vampires?

I don't see what your problem is.

[–] onepotato2 18 years ago

Zombies and Vampire belivers aren't trying to make the U.S. into a shallow, narrow-minded theocracy.

[–] Nova_UB313 18 years ago

I loved this film, but my man had steam coming out of his ears when I asked him whether he liked it or not. His displeasure was very aligned with the originator of this thread. I tried to tell him that it's just a movie, but that still didn't change his opinion.

I personally loved the premise, very original IMO.

Demetria :)

[–] astralana 18 years ago

Your man is a douche.

[–] hippocratesfirst 17 years ago

I have to agree your man is bizarre to say the least, it's a movie for fun and a very original one. I loved it..GREAT MOVIE!!!!

Happy Days are here Again!!

[–] yourmumisone 15 years ago

so every religious film ever is offensive? wow some people are stupid. it was a great ending, if it were not for the ending, it would just be a decent film

[–] tommyboy-16 9 years ago

agree

[–] bobbackdoor 17 years ago

You sir are a 'douche'.

[–] SpaceMountainMike 16 years ago

My father is a devout Lutheran and a friend of mine is Christian who doesn't even go to church and they didn't like it and I never asked my dad why. My friend didn't like it because he believes there is no way God would give anyone such a mission. My mother, who is an atheist didn't like it but only because he thought Dad was poisoning his kids. Since she doesn't believe in God, the only possibility left is that dad was delusional.

[–] SSteveL 13 years ago

. . . My friend didn't like it because he believes there is no way God would give anyone such a mission. . . .

Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
--Bob Dylan, paraphrasing the Old Testament

[–] Obnoxiously-Adorable 13 years ago

Something to think about.

Then again, how easy would it be to believe he'd give it to someone who needed to atone, needed to go through the trials and tribulations of knowing what he had to do, doing it without detection, and seeing the things written/said about him in the papers and on the news, when he knew he was doing the right thing?

It would be a life-changer, is all I'm sayin'.

´¨*¨)) -:¦:-
¸.•´ .•´¨*¨))
((¸¸.•´ .•´ -:¦:-
-:¦:-Oooh, sparkly!

[–] w112th 11 years ago

one is either a believer ( faith-full ) or an unbeliever ( faith-less ) for
' many are called but few are chosen '

[–] melecsengir-1 9 years ago

I also had steam coming out of my ears ^^ But that was why i liked it. I like it when movies get an emotional response out of me.

[–] Projekta 9 years ago

why did it make you mad? i just thought it was a good story.

[–] spmcevoy 18 years ago

Ah, yes, here we go. If you happen to express a belief in God, you are attempting to turn the U.S. into a shallow, narrow-minded theocracy. Typical uneducated, easy jab by a Christian-hating troll.

[–] air-conditioned_gypsy 17 years ago

I was deeply offended by this movie, too. I didn't mind that the movie suggested that demons and angels are real, so much as that the moral brother (Fenton) was actually a demon. Fenton witnessed horrendous crimes committed by his father, and he did the right thing by killing him. People have been saying that by murdering his father, Fenton became aware of his true nature as a demon and as a serial killer. This is simply ridiculous. He went insane. He wasn't a "demon". And Adam wasn't one of God's apostles. To suggest that God's work can be carried out by murdering people is the reason the Crusades happened. People who do evil things should be judged by God, not slain on Earth for their atrocities (unless they are found guilty by a jury of their peers). People can be blinded by their faith, and these fundamentalists threaten everyone's way of life. I was offended by the glorification of fundamentalist Christianity. You should be, too.

[–] dancingjinn 17 years ago

Air-conditioned gypsy,

According to the writer, Fenton was ALWAYS a demon - he didn't become a demon. THat's why his name was on the demon list even before his father stuck him in the cellar. He SEEMED to be the moral one but he was really just trying to protect the demons.

And Dad and Adam weren't murdering people. They were destroying demons.

It's not like I believe in angels and demons or anything. It's just the internal world of the story (as confirmed by the guy who wrote it).

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] WireVille 16 years ago

Fenton hadn't committed his crimes yet, so there was nothing to see.

---
"John, surfing, said to his mother, surfing beside him, 'How do you like surfing?'"

[–] rogerscorpion 16 years ago

I don't even consider myself a Christian, but, as a diehard film buff, I found this to be highly intelligent & original filmmaking. The twist was very stimulating & turned my expectations on their ear.

Carpe Noctem

[–] blue-3 17 years ago

air-conditioned_gypsy on Sun Dec 2 2007 10:59:41 writes:

I was offended by the glorification of fundamentalist Christianity. You should be, too.

I think you missed the subtlety. The story told by Adam (pretending to be Fenton) tells a tale of delusional do-gooders, which creates a tendency for a viewer to be judgemental of such craziness. Near the end, there's a twist which poses a question: What if they were right all along? It's left open how much of "Fenton's" tale was true, and how much of it is Adam's spin? Anybody who imagines they can be totally objective is as deluded as they come.

Reminds me of my favourite graffiti line: Gravity's a myth; the earth sucks.

[–] six-Tseven 17 years ago

I despise fundamentalist christianity.
But, i never saw how it was glorified though. In a way, this proves a point about how people are blinded by their faith.
Of course not to the extremes that the character in the movie went.
Now, I dont acknowledge a god, or even a higher power per say. Im just wondering where the glorification aspect comes from.
Any answers dude?

Thanks man.

[–] LucretiaBorg 17 years ago

Are you for real? It's a thriller, not reality tv (allthough I have the same opinion that in real life, murder in the name of God, especially through terrorism, is never allright, no matter the situation, or it must be in selfdefence, but that's also why I'm against guns).
But to get to the point.

I often see people kill in movies in the name of God. For instance, one movie, The 7th Sign, with Demi Moore (very good thriller by the way), there's a retarded boy, who killed his parents, who were really brother and sister and he did it because the bible said it was a deadly sin.
It's written in the bible that it's an unforgivable sin, but then he talks to God's son, who then forgives him, but the state sentenced him to the gaschamber. Was this director being offensive, hypocritical, religious or just telling a story. If you start using this religious bull (in my opinion, no offence) to discredit a movie, then you will be a busy gypsy, lol. Where do you begin and where does it end, last year it was the DaVinci Code, what will it be this year.....

You posin' for pictures? Or you gonna pull the trigger? (Crime Story)

[–] wespodoll123 17 years ago

there are lots of crazy people in the world who kill for God. The problem with that is that God does not want people to kill each other this is just a movie nothing else. A very good flick at that, I dont think the script was trying to preach just be original.

[–] redrodlrowwen 17 years ago

Killing in the name of God is certainly offensive to me - however I wasn't offended by this film. Bill Paxton's character was interesting and I don't believe that the message he received was in fact from God. This could have been a demon which appeared to Paxton.

Remember - we only have an interpretation of the occurance.

[–] Mirage4 17 years ago

This movie was provocative and very dark but I thought it was exceptionally done. I am a so-called Evangelical Christian who went to graduate school at a very conservative, right-wing, fundamental Christian university--Pat Robertson founded it and serves as President/Chancellor. I was surrounded by people who believe that demons and angels are real. I believe in God, angels, and dark spirits and I wasn't offended by this film. My undergraduate degree is in English literature (emphasizing American drama/fiction) and my graduate and doctoral degrees are in the behavior science field. As someone with a background in literature, I can appreciate a good story and this was a great story. As a Behavior Scientist, it is very easy to conceive how these horrific childhood traumas could cause both brothers to become delusional psychopaths. Even though the father was insane, it still does not justify Fenton killing him and for the record,I am against capital punishment as well as religious fundamentalism--regardless of the faith. It's interesting to me and a little bewildering how you can be both offended by religious fundamentalism but can condone some "justifiable" killings (like Fenton killing his own father and capital punishment). Is it ok to kill as long as it not done based on religious convictions? Are we fit to judge the righteous and the evil and pass judgment and if warranted kill the "evil" for their sins?

I don't think that this film was intending to take the side of religious fundamntalism, the film makers were attempting to present a story using their concept of the Old Testament God who frequently punishes people by sriking them dead or have his prophets and chosen ones carry out missions that destroyed whole tribes of people. This story merely presented this scenario in a modern context to present an intersting premise. I think most people got this and walked away thinking that Adam or Fenton or whomever was a murderous psycho and the visions probably were all in his head.

[–] labratst-02 16 years ago

How come if Christianity is used, it HAS to be a message, or a teaching tool? Do all gypsies perform curses on people? Do you defend the bastardization of their society in films? I love this movie and think that the twist is amazing. In the world of the film, we are all basically wrong, and God is acting in a very old testament sort of way. I don't believe the movie is trying to say that this is the way God really is. I don't even think it wants you to change your belief system. It's a friggin' story. That's why there are actors playing the roles, and writers and soforth. It's make-believe. Just becuase it's using your religion (and mine, btw) as part of the storyline, doesn't mean it's WRONG or shameful. If the characters were following the commandments of a Hindu God, would you be freaking out about the "glorification of fundamentalist Hinduism"? Oh, and fyi, I don't think you understand what glorification means. "Frailty" doesn't glorify anything. If it glorified christianity, you would agree with everything it had to say.

[–] chad-sobodash 16 years ago

What I got from the movie was that man is, and will always be, misguided in his attempts to define a higher being. How do we not know that their vision of themselves as angels fighting against demons (in the most sanctimonious way) wasn't just man's usual fallacy? Let's remember that there isn't only one way to worship a higher power. Just because they were wrong doesn't mean they're demonizing any form of worship. If anything, it's pitiful.

Again, I'm not saying that there wasn't some sort of divine influence that swayed the movie. I'm just saying that we don't know that their idea of divinity is the truth. Just as no one can be sure that their ideal of God is the truth (if I'm not mistaken, that's called "faith").

[–] guev88 16 years ago

I loved this movie and yet I don't personally believe in or espouse any beliefs in organized religion. I think the movie was more interested in broaching the possibility of the supernatural and things that are unexplainable to us as human being. Just sit back and enjoy it. It's not like this is some pathetic propaganda piece like "An American Carol" , Just a good movie that asks some interesting questions

[–] lgilbertom 16 years ago

Sorry guy but in that movie this is not true. You should try not to mix the facts with the premise of this movie. In real life if someone did it certainly would be insane. However, in this movie its very clear that the victim are "demons".
For your premise you should be offend with Buffy the Vampire Slayer too, after all they slay demons too.
I undertand your concern, that some lunitic watch this movie and could think himself that he is a God´s apostles. My answer to you is that: A person with this kind of mentality will sooner or later find some reason to kill. Will be God, Satan, black, White, Christianity, Jewish, Muslim, or something else. Its not a movie that make a diference, a movie you can like or dislike but in this case is not reason to be offended.

[–] joshzancan 16 years ago

the great thing about film is that it can create a world separate from the one that we live in. the film's progress, characters, and message fit in very well within the parameters of the film. did it fit in well within our own view of the world? of course not--no God fearing Christian would ever say that killing in the sake of an entity that is against killing is justified, but within the world of the film itself, it is acceptable. it is meant to send a message, not to relate to the world as it actually is. that is one of the biggest cross hairs with any art--there is an ethical approach to creating it, and an ethical approach to viewing it. and it is only if the two relationships correspond that the work of art actually accomplishes what it set out to accomplish.

"you're a handsome devil. what's your name?"
--grosse pointe blank

[–] donuts151515 13 years ago

The bible has many instances of people killing in the name of God.

[–] joshzancan 13 years ago

Good thing I'm not talking about people in the Bible.

"you're a handsome devil. what's your name?"
--grosse pointe blank

[–] renofury 16 years ago

thanks for expressing your agrument so clearly its just how i felt about this movie too

[–] meeksmt09 16 years ago

Gypsy,

While I respect your opinion and your right to be offended (regardless of your religious affiliation), I don't think anyone should be offended by this movie, or any movie. It's simply that - a movie. It's an artistic statement by a director meant to entertain an audience with fictional ideas. I don't think that the director honestly meant for his audience to believe that anyone that kills (whether they believe their victims to be demons or not) should be considered a good Christian, or 'an apostle.' This movie isn't a crack at Christianity. This storyline could have just as easily been tailored to fit the Muslim or Jewish faith. That being said, writing the screenplay within the parameters of the Christian faith was just more applicable to the target audience; the U.S. Whether or not fundamentalist Christianity is glorified in this movie or not isn't really the issue. You can dislike the movie, but there's no reason to be offended. We all have a right to express ourselves artistically and otherwise in this country, even about religion. I thought this movie was well done, original and interesting. It didn't demonize anyone, it left most of the addressed issues in the gray and left a lot of room for interpretation and dicussion. Isn't that what the best pieces of art are SUPPOSED to do?

[–] Nekrophagia 16 years ago

I am a hardcore atheist and I think this film is a masterpiece.

If you morons are that easily offended, don't watch films. In fact, don't ever leave your house. Why take the chance you might be offended by something.

(shaking head)

[–] lolatheguin 10 years ago

Agreed. I'm a deist. I don't believe in religion. I just believe in a prime mover. I think the film was excellent too. I've seen people of all sorts of beliefs say that they loved this film. Anyone who is offended by it must have plastic wrap for skin. I'm so sick of thin-skinned ninnies getting their panties in a bunch over nothing important. People used to be so much tougher. As humans, we're becoming weak in this regard. Hopefully, it's just a phase. I think it's becoming less and less fashionable to be perpetually offended. This "we must please everyone" attitude is losing popularity from what I've observed.

[–] cthulhulurks 17 years ago

I was not offended by the film in any way, but I can see it planting some very wrong beliefs in people more prone to manipulation, and, true, these beliefs support the worst case of theocracy. Basically the message of the film is that you can kill if God commands you to (which he never does BTW).

[–] gtlam13 17 years ago

God never commands people to kill, btw? Unless you have some sort of close and personal relationship to God, you have no way of knowing this. You can say that you believe in a good God that would most likely never do such a thing, but it is far too presumptuous to just say, God would never do that. Which is what makes this movie very smart. Normally we really dont have any way of knowing what God wants us to do other than our beliefs. This movie is NOT saying that it is okay to kill if God tells you to. It is asking us the question, of the many millions of people who believe that God really DOES tell them to murder in his name (this can be seen every day in the world news), what IF he really was behind the scenes commanding them to do this. This view of God might be unsettling to some, but you shouldnt be offended because this is a very real belief that many people hold. This movie does not show any person, especially not the father or either of the sons, in a particularly favorable light. If anything, I think this movie is asking us, even if God really had told them to do what they did, would it make their actions any less brutal, and lets face it, wrong? I think this movie is trying to prove that certain moral convictions run deeper than a persons notion of God, and murder is always horrible no matter what kind of view of God one holds.

[–] cthulhulurks 17 years ago

Alright, I'm referring to the Judeo-Christian God, who explicitly stated in the scriptures that you can't kill a human. AFAIK governments of various countries, even theocratic ones, take the liberty not to adhere to this commandment under various pretexts.

You are saying that "this movie is trying to prove that certain moral convictions run deeper than a persons notion of God", this is a generalisation, and would vary depending on a specific person. Even if we take the father and Adam, we see that they have no trouble killing people once they think they are demons, even though none of those demons has a tail and horns.

my vote history:
http://imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=27424531

[–] gtlam13 17 years ago

Even the Judeo-Christian God has been used as reason for violence and intolerance ever since the inception of his religion, even to this day. Regardless of whether or not you think this reflects upon your true God, the fact is that every form of God has at some point or another been perverted to someones end. The scriptures themselves were written and rewritten by men, so one cannot really say who is right and who is wrong, since nobody knows and everyone seems to have their own idea. Im just saying that, what if its one of the so called "bad people" who really got it right, WHAT IF, they had God standing behind them in their actions.

The movie doesnt insult any one notion of God, it just poses the question, what if he really was behind the people that we would normally classify as insane. Would that make their actions seem any less horrible. Remember, to them, they have every evidence that these people are demons, and even "see" their crimes when they lay their hands on them, which are usually, horrible atrocities. I was just saying that even after we find out that there is a God standing behind the father and son, and that these people actually ARE demons, most people would still find the actions of the father and son reprehensible. That is all I was getting at. The nature of their action does not change from when we think they are lunatics to the time when we find out that they are not.

[–] reeseradu 15 years ago

Actually the 10 commandments states
You shall not kill,
but doesn't limit that to humans.

There is evidence in the second chapter of Genesis that we should be vegetarian{Genesis 1:28-30 (Young's Literal Translation) 28And God blesseth them, and God saith to them, `Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over every living thing that is creeping upon the earth.'
29And God saith, `Lo, I have given to you every herb sowing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which [is] the fruit of a tree sowing seed, to you it is for food;30and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which [is] breath of life, every green herb [is] for food:' and it is so.}

There is also a passage in the New Testament, attributed to Jesus:
Matthew 10:33-35(Young's Literal Translation)33and whoever shall deny me before men, I also will deny him before my Father who is in the heavens.
34`Ye may not suppose that I came to put peace on the earth; I did not come to put peace, but a sword;35for I came to set a man at variance against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, 36and the enemies of a man are those of his household.
37`He who is loving father or mother above me, is not worthy of me, and he who is loving son or daughter above me, is not worthy of me,38and whoever doth not receive his cross and follow after me, is not worthy of me.
39`He who found his life shall lose it, and he who lost his life for my sake shall find it.
This seems to support family murder for as little as not being of the same faith, and directly contradicts the view of Jesus being only peaceful.

If Religion is the opiate of the masses Atheism must be the sugar pill...
I respect the right to free speech, particularly when it exposes ignorance!

[–] Cantoris-2 16 years ago

I agree with ayacthulhu. In its casual presentation of church buildings, hymns, and scripture, this film represented God as the Christian God. The dualistic idea that some people are demons properly terminated by vigilantes, and that God would command some individuals in particular to carry out this mission, is profoundly at odds with this religion's teachings. (To make just one simplistic observation, it violates one of the Ten Commandments). For the film to suggest that it is presenting any credible variant of Christianity by legitimating such a conceit would be an offensive and dangerous lie.

My refuge in arguing its benevolence (which is beginning more and more to look like giving it the benefit of a doubt) is the bedrock of the very incredibility of this premise as a Christian precept. Seen in the light of this faith, Adam and his father are obviously deluded, whatever the little microcosm of the movie may suggest. The film, then, is not abusing Christianity on the whole as a scaffold for escapist entertainment, but is aptly satirizing religious errors to which people in that part of the U.S. have proven especially susceptible. Furthermore, the fact that Adam has become a gen d'arme for the state is a particularly ironic commentary on, well, the corrupt state of that State (if not of every state as a demonic power or principality, as demonstrated by the theologians William Stringfellow and Walter Wink). Even if this is the film's well-intentioned message, however, it seems that those who understand it thus are so vastly outnumbered by those who misunderstand it that the project is counterproductive.

Flannery O'Connor might have been speaking of this film as well as of her own stories when she said: "The religion of the South is a do-it-yourself religion, something which I as a Catholic find painful and touching and grimly comic. It’s full of unconscious pride that lands them in all sorts of ridiculous religious predicaments. They have nothing to correct their practical heresies and so they work them out dramatically." Many readers don't realize that this was a purpose of her writing, either.

[–] t_bunson 15 years ago

"Ah, yes, here we go. If you happen to express a belief in God, you are attempting to turn the U.S. into a shallow, narrow-minded theocracy. Typical uneducated, easy jab by a Christian-hating troll."

I know -- what an idiot! It's pretty obvious that this country is already a shallow, narrow-minded theocracy.

(Well, we're at least 2/3 of that by any measure.)

[–] Blon_DeWig 15 years ago

Sorry for the RWP, just wanted to come bump this ole thread again since I hadn't been around in over a year!

Go thread! I bet it goes ~*~Read Only~*~

blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the national debt

[–] lolatheguin 10 years ago

Go live in the Middle East for awhile and then get back to us on how America is an oppressive theocracy. It seems you're lacking perspective. Theocracies do not protect our God-given (or nature-given, if you prefer) right to freedom of religion.

[–] IndigBubb 15 years ago

I was watching a show where I believe was one of the writers who said this movie was suppose to leave the viewer with the question is there really such a thing as pure evil or pure good. I thought the ending was a good twist although I did ask myself is mathew's character adam by the middle of the film. Basically the movie leads off with that there is no real hero in this story. Did God say to them to kill people who did evil things is still a question because we never hear God talking to them only see that they are psychic and can read people's past and know who did wrong.

[–] MtnMan13 18 years ago

Zombies and Vampire belivers aren't trying to make the U.S. into a shallow, narrow-minded theocracy.

Yes, because we all know that Christians in the US are fanatical serial killers just like the characters in this film. (sarcasm)

[–] gosundancekid 18 years ago

darren-dude

"Yes, because we all know that Christians in the US are fanatical serial killers just like the characters in this film. (sarcasm)"

not because of that but because zombies and vampires are non-existent but Christian (or any other) crazy fundies aren't...

[–] elizabethbennet135 17 years ago

"not because of that but because zombies and vampires are non-existent but Christian (or any other) crazy fundies aren't... "

I'm deeply offended by your claim that vampires and zombies aren't real - I totally saw some last night in my closet. Just kidding... although there are crazy people who think they're vampires. Probably not anyone who thinks they're a zombie... but there are a lot of people who believe in zombies (e.g. some Vodoun sects).
Anyway, the point I was going to make is that this movie is cool because it says that demons, etc may be real.

I can kind of understand being offended: if you are a more fundamentalist Christian and do believe that there are demons and angels, then this movie kind of implies that you should be a serial killer. Or that you are already...
Also the whole demon thing kind of removes human responsibility for the crimes, which can piss off a lot of people. I mean, if its a demon, then its just doing what demons do, so there's no personal responsibility.

[–] spica123 17 years ago

Nice one, onepotato2!!! Right on the money!

[–] RalphNumbers 16 years ago

Bravo! Zombies and vampires probably detest science, though. They might even rub elbows at the book-burnings with those who are making the U.S. into a shallow, narrow-minded theocracy.

Anyways, Paxton hit this solid screenplay out of the park. Cast was fantastic. Compelling show with a sweet twist.

M. Night Shamalamadingdong's follow-up efforts to "Sixth Sense" didn't play half as well. (Hmmm, wonder whether his ghost movie offended anyone's tender supernatural sensibilities. Or maybe "The Village" offended Amish people? Wait, how would they have seen "The Village" ?! Yeesh.)

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jville2 11 years ago

Funny because your statement reeks of shallow, narrow-mindedness.

[–] Injinn 9 years ago

You do see the irony in this statement, right?

Conspiracy theories are as narrow-minded as it gets. We're no closer to a theocracy now than we were in the days of the Revolutionary War.

You don't need religion to be myopic; human beings can achieve this without help from ANYONE.

[–] johnfitzgerald77 18 years ago

Really, there's nada to be offended by here. it's to the movie's credit that people are so affected by it.

the whole twist was what made it work. Otherwise it would just be like every other movie out there.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kya1 9 years ago

I had heard that this film was very good, but I just didn't enjoy it. It was just a standard killer film to me. It has very good reviews, but I just don't see what's so special about it, it's possibly because I'm not very religious.

________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAIJ3Rh5Qxs

[–] Jeffism 20 years ago

First off it would be the writer not the drector. If you lisson to the writers commantary you learn that this was only ment to be a horor film, and was not the gospal the way he see's it.

[–] undeadwhite 19 years ago

I also dont understand why your offended.?

[–] SteveGreen 18 years ago

drector = director
lisson = listen
writers = writer's
commantary = commentary
ment = meant
horor = horror
gospal = gospel
see's = sees

You illiterate idiot.

[–] hippocratesfirst 17 years ago

drector = director
lisson = listen
writers = writer's
commantary = commentary
ment = meant
horor = horror
gospal = gospel
see's = sees

You illiterate idiot.

umm, you're the idiot!

What is the gain to you to come on an anonymous internet board and show off your mediocre spelling corrections!!?? So lame!

The poster clearly doesn't care about his spelling so why do you?

Possibly because you're an insecure anal-retentive show-off who has to pick on unsuspecting posters on internet message boards!!???

Happy Days are here Again!!

[–] Thom615 17 years ago

hippocratesfirst , ecsellant analasys on that dumby :-)

[–] thgc 17 years ago

Had to be said. Nice job :-D

[–] tobyboby 17 years ago

It's possible that that poster doesn't speak/write English as their first language. You ignorant, presumptuous idiot.

[–] ilikechickentacos 17 years ago

If only...if *only* there was some tool on some sort of word processor that could correct such mistakes! Surely something I would utilize if I were uncomfortable with my English skills (whether I was native or not) and publically voicing my opinions in a public forum.

[–] reeseradu 15 years ago

Thank You!

I respect the right to free speech, particularly when it exposes ignorance!

[–] Gloede_The_Saint 15 years ago

Not to be rude but there are many people in this world who are not born in english speaking country and only learns it as a second language(if at all). Of course it can be annoying, but I for example couldn't write proper english before I was around 16-17. Learning foreign languages is pretty darn hard!

Somebody here has been drinking and I'm sad to say it ain't me - Allan Francis Doyle

[–] zacariah 19 years ago

Yeah, I was offended. But not surprised. Why should a talented director not be a member of a group that includes of millions of religious and political zealots who believe that anyone who disagrees with them should be killed in cold blood? It's often been remarked that when fascism-Naziism comes to this country, it will take the face of George Washington rather than Hitler. But the current dominance of theocratic fascism has taken on the face of Jesus. And for those who believe that Jesus was about love and tolerance and not about hatred and bigotry, that's a real shame. To the many who will disagree with what I say, I refer you to the article in the New York Times on Friday, June 17, by former Senator, and ordained Episcopal minister, John Danforth of Missouri.

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] c_b0b-1 19 years ago

So, because Bill Paxton made a horror movie in which we are led to believe that a father has gone crazy, only to get swerved and find out he was totally sane, that somehow makes Bill Paxton a Nazi?

What is wrong with you? It's a MOVIE.

[–] f-society 19 years ago

> So, because Bill Paxton made a horror movie

No, it's because he made a horror movie that he cannot conclude justly.

--
The Purpose of Life is to End

[–] ecm_pike 18 years ago

nma_movies wrote: No, it's because he made a horror movie that he cannot conclude justly.

Yeah, I like my horror films to end justly. Lima. Oscar. Lima.

Seriously, lighten up. The writer wasn't/isn't a religious zealot, he was just trying to tell a story.

[–] f-society 18 years ago

> The writer wasn't/isn't a religious zealot, he was just trying to tell a story.

Yea, right.

--
Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

[–] SteveGreen 18 years ago

Every time I read a nonsensical comment like this, I dance a happy dance I don't live in a country so wrapped up in religious hocus-pocus as the USA.

[–] hippocratesfirst 17 years ago

Yeah we're happy all around..Happy that we don't have another uptight loser like you in the USA also!!

You talk about religion being bigoted and assumptive but every single comment you've made about the director, about religion and the movie's artistic value is ripe with prejudice, bigotry and intolerance.

Ever hear of the pot, well that's you so who's the pot and who's the kettle vis-a-vis TRUE religious fanatics? Not all religious people are fanatical just like not ALL pedantic spell checkers and losers are bigots like you, some are just losers and pedants in their spare time!!

It's a movie seriously, I've rarely read such paranoid nonsense about a make believe movie before, sheesh!!

Happy Days are here Again!!

[–] lolatheguin 10 years ago

👏

[–] perrywkeller 19 years ago

Seems to me that John Danforth said, "Following a Lord who cited love of God and love of neighbor as encompassing all the commandments, we reject a political agenda that displaces that love."
Hmmm... doesn't seem seem to me that he thinks Jesus is about hate and bigotry, but this board is not really a place for this type of discussion is it. Perhaps you should try some relaxation techniques.

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] la-31 19 years ago

Islam didn't justify the slavery and genocide of millions of colored people all over the globe through imperialism and "colonialism." That was white European men using Jesus to justify it. Hitler was no crazed Muslim either. If the one billion plus MUslims of this world decided to pursue "the true face of intolerance and death to all non-believers" there would be no world left. Bigot. Learn some history.

[–] hippocratesfirst 17 years ago

Outright racial bigotry thrown into the mix now? You are such a huge hypocrite (No pun intended)!!

Happy Days are here Again!!

[–] la-31 17 years ago

That's funny. A billion plus people of the world get "genocided," culturally, economically, and politically screwed by a handful of European countries via colonialism, and it's racism to say so. Call it like it is. Your school books gloss over THAT.

[–] e36002 19 years ago

check the Bible, not the newspaper, for the truth about Jesus.

Self-esteem builds up, but self-confidence is what led to the downfall of mankind.

[–] SteveGreen 18 years ago

Why, does he post messages from his dad in the classifieds?

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] vraiblonde 19 years ago

Oh for Pete's sake. :rollingeyes: Liberal religion bashers bug the hell out of me (no pun intended). You people can't even enjoy a stinking movie without finding some political message in it.

[–] posseproductions 18 years ago

Number 1 you should never base your theory's on other peoples opinions, thats not only unorginal but stupid. Number two, how do you figure jesus was about hatred and bigotry? If your gonna read articles about the man you should probably read his book, now i'm not speaking from the point of view of a christian, just that of an educated man, and i don't understand why your offended? of all the movies and theories in them how come one that deals with angels and demon's offend you, perhaps you should figure that out, cuz this might be a real serious problem

[–] olsh666 18 years ago

Wow. Do you understand that this is a movie? Fictional? You're scary.

[–] zrozof 17 years ago

Wow. Just wow.

Okay, first of all, are you really trying to say that Bill Paxton is a member of a group of "religious and political zealots who think that anyone who disagrees with them should be killed in cold blood"? Do you honestly believe that? . . . Seriously? (LOL) Do you also think they plan on killing these people with an enchanted lead pipe?

Second, you think that people believing Jesus was about love and tolerance is a shame? That's a shame? I went back and read that article you cited. How do you think that it supports your thesis? It does the exact opposite. The entire column is about the differing views within Christianity. And how the people who advocate more draconian policies are merely claiming (and that's the key word, claiming) to represent God's/Jesus's wishes.

Yeah, a lot of horrible things have been done by people claiming Jesus as their savior, just like people have done horrible things claiming all types of influence. People have killed, raped, tortured in the name of Jesus, Jehovah, Allah, Ghandi, you name it. To say that an entire faith is about "hatred and bigotry" is just so ignorant. With all due respect, you're no different than the hicks who say that all Muslims are terrorists. You guys are just different branches off of the same tree.

Sorry everyone for the long post. It's just that these highschool-senior "intellectuals," who promote some of the most simple minded arguments, really get under my skin.

[–] CONFEDERATEYANKEE 19 years ago

This movie is someone's wonderful imagination at work. It's up to you if you believe in Hollywood or angels and demons. I think it was a brilliant mind opener. So many things like Dad Meik's vision of the angel and the struggle that Fenton had have been recorded in the Bible, yet during my time on earth I really haven't heard too much about things like the stories told in it happening now. That's what made the story line work for me. I mean if God was protecting them and they did indeed exist in the modern world how would we know?

The Bible states the meek shall inherit the earth. I say look out there's a whole family of Meiks now! He he.

[–] oonagimaki 19 years ago

HA! That's exactly what I told my wife--this movie is downright offensive.

[–] TwoMushrooms 19 years ago

Seriously, those who are "offended" by the movie seriosult need to get a reality check.

What the heck, "Constantine" was about angels and demons aswell, are you going to bitch about it too, getting offended and saying the writer/director wants you to believe in angels & demons.

And why not get offended by "Star Wars" aswell, because the director obviously wants you to believe in aliens and spaceships.

Some people...

"Fortuna audaces javat"

[–] Trinian89 19 years ago

Amen.

´An Old Man Dies and Young woman Lives: Fair Trade!´

[–] uber-zebra 19 years ago

Constantine is clearly fiction (bad fiction in my opinion, altough the personification of Lucifer was cute). This movie is about serial killers, faith, and lunacy and it then twists into an immoral ending. Some people find it offensive to be decieved in such a way in a movie. My take on the ending is that there was no God's Hand, only Devil's Hand. For I believe in fair trials and if the Bible isn't wrong, God is about redemption, and any judgement of demons should be done in heaven/hell/purgatory, not in Earth. (for the record, I am not even religious).

My problem isn't the religious subversion, it is the condoning of killing. Whatever any religion might say, whatever any one might say, I do believe that (out of extreme circunstances) killing is wrong. Even if God or Elvis or Mourinho said otherwise.

[–] behamut 19 years ago

However, in this film, there was a difference. The "people" that they were killing weren't really people, they were demons. There is a difference between an evil person (who yes, deserves a chance at redemption, forgiveness, etc..), and a demon that is taking on the form of a person to walk amongst us. They were destroying evil creatures disguised as people, not evil people.

[–] CONFEDERATEYANKEE 19 years ago

behamut, Is it possible for a demon to recieve forgiveness or redemption? That would be like saying Satan could be redeemed I think.

[–] behamut 19 years ago

I wouldn't think so simply because they are not a being of choice, which is what seperates humans from angels and demons. Demons (and angels) basically do what they're told and have no freedom of choice or will (they're kinda like extensions of their master's will), so they wouldn't ask for forgiveness or even think about asking for it. They (and Satan) aren't in the same realm of thinking and acting as humans are. They'll never be forgiven because they'll never think to want it.

[–] f-society 18 years ago

> weren't really people, they were demons...

And how do you know? Because God says so? And where's God in this movie anyway? Oh yea, in their minds...

--
The Purpose of Life is to End

[–] GeMsToNe_MaTrIx 18 years ago

"And how do you know? Because God says so?"

No; because the fictional characters in the fictional movie have it stated in the script. Idiot.

I still don't understand how anyone could be offended by this; do people really live so far in the past that they can't get over the fiction of a book written 2000 years ago to enjoy the fiction of a movie in the present?

[–] gosundancekid 18 years ago

to GeMsToNe_MaTrIx

"...they can't get over the fiction of a book written 2000 years ago..."

i fail to see how that should have anything to do with anything

the trouble (some) people are having with the film is the following:

a) if there's no God people should live by rules made up by people

so it's a big dilemma if we have a right to kill others and if yes when, why, how, etc

b) if there's God

the same question has to be asked

and you also have to ask yourself can you live with your faith following your heart or rather following rigid rules?

if you say follow your heart since Christ will always forgive your weakness and sins - you have won, then as long as your attentions are good, i.e. your actions are the result of empathy, etc you're a real Christian

point is, what if this isn't the case?

people who see the film offending criticize this very assumption

i don't belong to them not because i don't take the testaments into consideration when watching the film, then you make a mistake if you don't

i do take them into consideration (although i'm an atheist) because the characters are religious

but i don't find the film offending because in my opinion it does not support the meiks family's activities

Andrea

[–] SomeRandomAsshole 19 years ago

This is *beep* retarded.

It's just a movie...

[–] hippocratesfirst 17 years ago

This is *beep* retarded.

It's just a movie...

My thoughts exactly!

What a load of crap!! Some people.....

Happy Days are here Again!!

[–] posseproductions 18 years ago

yes constantine was clearly fiction and this movie is clearly fact... Look obviously your not religious and you've obviously not read the bible, but you seem to take liberty in saying in your opinion what God is about... here's one passage that will sum it all up, "Thou shall have no Gods before me, For i am a Jealous God" Notice anything, yeah thats right, Your view of God is not only skewed but straight up wrong, and stating that there is no condoning of killing, you know God sent two angels to sodom to destroy the whole city right... and just for the record all those people were killed...

[–] f-society 18 years ago

> as about angels and demons aswell, are you ...

Haha, it's funny how many people try to act like they don't know. Man, people like me are offended because this movie justify killing anyone in the name of God.

--
The Purpose of Life is to End

[–] atheistpeace82 15 years ago

@nma_movies

WTF? Where in the movie are the killers/killings justified? I keep seeing many people posting with the same interpretation that somehow the killers/killings are justified or condoned in the movie. How so?

Yes, the characters themselves (Dad & Adam) believe they are justified because they think they are doing god's work of destroying demons, but they are just characters in a story that we're watching. I don't see how the movie itself is justifying anything.

After reading your other posts, you seem kind of paranoid. Could you maybe be taking this fictional story meant to thrill and entertain a little too seriously?

You do understand that most movies are made to entertain right?

[–] Graceless_Ways 19 years ago

Oh Lord...How about thinking rationally and realizing that *gasp* it's JUST a movie. It amuses me how so many mindless people get offended over the stupidest things. I could understand if it was a movie that promoted racism or nazism, but it wasn't meant to promote or make you believe ANYTHING. It was a horror/thriller type movie and I cannot see how that could be misconstrued in any way, shape, or form. It amazes me how these incredibly foolish and overly sensitive people survive in this world today. Three words: GET OVER IT.

[–] greenredblack 19 years ago

"I could understand if it was a movie that promoted racism or nazism, but it wasn't meant to promote or make you believe ANYTHING." -graceless ways

hmm.....if a movie promotes racism or nazism wouldn't it still be..."JUST a movie"? i think it's hypocritical to draw the line for what should or should not offend someone based on your own personal experiences and beliefs and think that that should be an accepted place to draw the line.

i definitely wasn't offended by the movie, but do think that the writing/directing sure seemed to steer the viewer in fenton's direction, and make assume that the dad dude was making this stuff up. how is fenton a demon anyway? who did he kill, torture, rape, etc? i don't get that part. and i was also bothered that killing the sheriff towards the middle has to be justified for the accepted ending to fly, but i don't think it should be. to paraphrase: "he had to die so we can finish our mission" so an innocent person dies so they can go on killing demons? this is "god" we're talking about! f'ing GOD! and we're to believe that the sherriff had to die because this little family is the only way these "demons" can be "destroyed"? that doesn't sound like the logic that a perfect god would use to me. at all.

[–] MightyQuinnASU 19 years ago

Just to clarify for you greenredblack:

Fenton was supposed to be a demon because he would go on to become the God's Hand serial killer that the FBI was actually pursuing. The FBI didn't even know about the murders of Adam and the dad, because they had all been buried in that garden. The movie said that the God's Hand killer had murdered like six people or something, and that was actually Fenton. He had taken the name his father was using and became a true serial killer killing innocent people. I think his purpose in doing so was, in part because of the psychotic damage done to his psyche by witnessing his father and brother kill people, but also in order to be added to Adam's list of demons so that Adam would be allowed to come and kill him. So Fenton was a demon because he would go on to kill his father, apparently an instrument of God, and would also go on to become a serial killer. Hope that helps.

Don't be tellin' me about foot massages - I'm the foot *beep* master!

[–] crushstation 19 years ago

Your recall of the script is spot on. I am afraid that for those who want to further their opinion and message, it was a waste of time. The only real message is that things are not always what they appear to be. The classic hook for a story as old as the Greek tragedies we read in school. Reading anything else into it is really taking thing to a scary level. Thanks for trying to set the record straight.

[–] twilightfun 18 years ago

Thanks MightyQuinnASU. This is exactly what people need to understand about this movie. Remember most of all
that the movie is a "story." Please, try not to take it personal, okay? That is where most get hung up from what I've seen. It's like they are thinking that the creator is "trying" to make them change their beliefs. All he did was throw out a creative way of interpreting something that can be interpreted different ways anyway. Honestly, it must be learned -- how to know when to swing between objectivity and imagination, in order to fully enjoy a story -- hehe == where film viewership really lacks, in my view, these days.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jbushey 19 years ago

I think to say you were offended is stupid. No one is allowed to have an opinion on religion, or use their own religious beliefs in public? If he was being talked to by Satan instead of God, should I be offended? No. It's just a story.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing. - Fight Club

[–] MissAnnThrope4 19 years ago

mommaslittlemonkeyman
IT'S A MOVIE!!!!!!!!!! get over it, sheesh!

[–] fiatlux-1 19 years ago

I think it just comes down to what your beliefs are. Some people believe angels and demons really do exist. That's O.K.
Some don't, that's O.K. too.
I think Mr. Paxton was just telling a tale from one side, letting the audience make up it its own mind whether these demons in the film were just evil humans or demons in the supernatural sense.

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] melora72 15 years ago

I know a religious person who was offended by it. First because it portrays religious people as crazy people. Also, she believe God would never want people possessed by demons to be killed. The demons should be driven out. This person does believe in demons and demon possession. I didn't argue with her. Religious debates with people who believe in demon-possession are futile.

To me it was a mind bending "imagine if" story. I love it. And I think in the movie's version of reality, the people were not demon-possessed, they were demons disguised as people.

[–] CONFEDERATEYANKEE 19 years ago

Hollywood isn't real EVEN WHEN IT'S BASED ON A TRUE STORY. Directors and actors create their own world together while filming. I tend to watch previews or read movie descriptions before hand that way I know if there's a chance I'll enjoy the movie or be offended or sleep through it. That's just me though. Personally I like the kinds of movies that challenge the mainstream thinking of society!

I loved this movie and was not offended at all!

[–] b-sinclair26 19 years ago

What kind of cretin could possibly be offended by this film because it has angels and demons in it? What?? Get a grip, then get a life. That's like someone who doesn't believe that aliens exist getting upset at the X-Files or Star Trek for suggesting they do exist. Or someone getting all worked up at Santa Claus The Movie. Morons, morons, morons.

PS: I believe in Santa and aliens, but not angels and demons!