I don't get it? Why would you want someone to say, "N**G*R *beep* Me Hard!" repeatedly? Was her trying to get her true, repressed feelings out of her or something or was it just to shock the audience to see this large, dark black man and skinny, flat young white girl? Honestly I don't think it was rape. She might have had second thoughts for a moment, but in the end she stayed. He didn't force her...physically anyway.
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Well, he gave her a hell of a story. Wasn't one of the girls in the photos the main girl that ripped on Vi? Also, we only saw part of what happened. The scene was only a minute long. There's no telling what happened afterwards.
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I don't think you can consider it rape at all. She didn't try to leave, she didn't say no, she didn't really even try to resist saying what he wanted her to say. Sure, she may have been intimidated and felt pressure to have sex with him right then and say *beep* *beep* ME," but the fact remains that she never made her discomfort really known, and never attempted to assert herself. That was her choice. It's not rape if you don't resist, don't say no, and you let it happen without and any genuine coercion; it's just bad sex.
shareSomething i just recalled: in the opening when She is have relations with her boyfriend he says she's doesn't sweat anymore, basically meaning she's not enjoying it. After she comes to see him after she's "raped" he says, "you're all sweaty." Makes you thnk!
shareAlso, if my memory serves me correctly, did she go out to the club to get laid to get over Marcus?
shareIt's definitely not rape, rape isn't just about power, it also involves a lack of consent, and Vi consented. Yes, he had power over her, but that's a very common form of sexual intercourse, a Dominant/submissive relationship, where one person obviously has the dominant hand and basically controls the situation, the other person gives up their power voluntarily because it's what suits their personality, and Vi is definitely a submissive woman, which is why a relationship with a much less dominating man like her boyfriend at the time just wouldn't please her or make her sweat like with her teacher.
I'm not exactly sure that having Vi say those things is what turned him on, I doubt very seriously that he felt like he was being demeaned and getting off on it, he was demeaning her, and that would probably be what he got off on, not necessesarily just demeaning her, but in that way, dragging her out of her suburban fantasies of race, turning her into his puppet who shouts out racial slurs as he uses her, and then her finding out that she liked it, liked to be used. Catherine explains it all after Vi reads her story and the quote is in the Quotes section for the movie.
Remember that Solondz's works basically all criticize some aspect of suburbia and in this one it's the little suburban white girl's attitude toward race, or towards anybody she sees as being mistreated or maligned by society, that's why she even dates the handicapped guy and tells him his stories are good when they're not, it's her fake compassion that really does nothing for those she thinks she's helping, but makes her feel better about herself, a very selfish attitude and very prevalent.
So, it's definitely not rape, it's just her teacher showing her more about herself than she wants to admit. Also, he's not a sadist, not at all, there are very distinct differences between S&M, BDSM, and D/s. A sadist, by definition, enjoys inflicting pain and not in just a sexual way. BDSM covers many different forms of this type of the lifestyle, B&D (bondage and discipline), D/s (Dominant/submissive) and S&M. D/s is about having control over another (D) and being controlled by another (s), it's a type of relationship power dynamic and does not necessarily describe types of sexual acts. Mr. Scott is a Dominant, and about as pure a Dominant as there is. Vi finds pictures of girls tied up, so it seems he enjoyes some bondage, but there is never any evidence that Mr. Scott is also sadistic, he's a Dominant who enjoys binding his submissives, that's not sadistic, he's just in control, and the little white girls like giving over their control to the big black male. That's all there is to it, no rape and no sadism and no hatred towards white females, remember the whole point of why Mr. Scott does this to Vi is to show her that she is racist, there's no evidence to show that Mr. Scott is racist himself, he just takes what's offered to him, pretty little white girls, if he binds them or dominates them, it's not out of hatred, it's just who he is and who they are, some can handle that knowledge like Catherine, some can't like Vi, and that's basically the point of the whole story.
Precisely what margin_walker2003 wrote. On the dot. It wasn't rape at all, really. If she really didn't like where the sex was going, she could have left the room. Yes, it'd make meeting with her professor awkward afterwards, but honestly, she should have thought things through more and known that she was playing with fire in regards to having sex with a teacher.
Yes, he seems like a classic Dominant as well. As someone who partakes in sex like this, as a Dom and Sub, I didn't feel offended by this scene. Dirty talk, especially if it involves 'taboo' words that would offend others, is a huge turn-on for many Doms. Vi is afraid of the idea of enjoying that sort of sex and, hey, not everyone can handle it. However, for her to turn around and play a victim of rape is wrong. Catherine's critique was entirely correct. Vi was going to use him as a 'notch on her belt' to be able to brag about (to herself and/or others) but he ended up turning the tables on her, possibly intentionally.
Good analysis. I watched this film a bunch when it came out, but just watched again for the first time in over ten years. My impressions changed quite a bit over the years.
As for the reason that Vi participates in the domination sex act with the professor, I always thought it was to gain life experience needed to be a writer. Earlier in the segment, Vi's writing was called callow by the "teacher's pet". Later Vi finds nude photos of her (teacher's pet) in the professor's bathroom. But Vi's reasoning is clearly more complex than this.
Who's High Pitch?
Probably b/c he (not so) secretly hates the annoying pretentious people and climate he's in all day. He thinks they all see him as nothing more than a n* somewhere in their minds and he gets off on making her say it. He knows all his coddled sheltered students are fake and phony w/ him all day so he likes to get them alone and break them down.
Any wealthy white girl would never say something like that, so it's debasing to her.
As far as using the word rape, I think he violated her, intentionally. I think the worst feeling for her was that she SAW those pics in his bathroom and instead of just getting the heck out of there (like any savvy gal with some instinct) she stuck around and wound up regretting it. She was expecting a different sexual experience than what she got. So afterward she feels even worse.
But I don't think that segment was meant as an attack on either character as much as an attack on a university or PC system run so amok that a young girl (such as the one portrayed) doesn't have enough backbone and self-interest to tell her bitter has-been prof or her whiny needy bf to get effed. B/c they both fall into the category of people who deserve universal compassion. So she's stuck trying to like people who are basically total jerks.
I preface this by saying that I'm black. I don't think that it did turn him on. I think that he was expressing contempt for the phoniness of a politically correct yet de facto segregated liberal arts college and student body, neither of which would so much as spit on him were he on fire if he wasn't a Pulitzer prize winner. He was also forcing Vi, and probably all of the fawning white co-eds who preceded her, to consider the depths of their own hypocrisy.
shareI think you're onto something there hooper. He clearly showed contempt for his students and in my mind was mocking their so-called "liberalism" when in fact they believed all the sexual stereotypes about black men.
share... or, he has built up a facade of enlightenment and cold intellectualism but beneath the surface is a serial domination/humiliation fetishist.
shareI would agree with hooper on this. Mr. Scott was completely aware that Vi, as well as many if not all the co-eds, were giving it to him even though they were trying to break through their own racial barriers.
I most definitely would NOT refer to it as rape, and the pictures were probably intentionally left in the bathroom for all of his "guests" to see prior to their humiliation.
1) Vi never said NO.
2) Nothing in the scene suggested that Vi lost any control or power to leave at any time. If the "victims" felt that there was any rape involved, then it was a form of self-rape.
I would agree with hooper on this. Mr. Scott was completely aware that Vi, as well as many if not all the co-eds, were giving it to him even though they were trying to break through their own racial barriers.
I most definitely would NOT refer to it as rape, and the pictures were probably intentionally left in the bathroom for all of his "guests" to see prior to their humiliation.
1) Vi never said NO.
2) Nothing in the scene suggested that Vi lost any control or power to leave at any time. If the "victims" felt that there was any rape involved, then it was a form of self-rape.
You guys that keep bringing up rape are missing the entire point.
She is dating the handicapped dude for the same reason she screwed the professor.
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Well, with the handicapped boyfriend, she always had the power.
And she was trying to show how liberal and open-minded she is, by first dating her boyfriend, and then, screwing the professor.
In the bathroom before she had sex with professor, she kept repeating to herself, "Don't be a racist!" because she was scared and confronting her own stereotypes of black people, or black men. And the professor knew that that was the reason why she was having sex with him. So he told her to say those things, because subconsciously, that's what she wanted to say. She enjoyed it. But then felt guilty about it - as evidenced by the "You're all sweaty" comment by her boyfriend.
However, in that act, she felt the power was taken from her when the professor knew the reason why she was with him and forced her to say it outloud, unlike her boyfriend. So she "told a story," and changed it all around to make her seem like the victim and that she was raped.
exactly...jebus pretty much hit it dead on...it was confronting the true mental aspect behind all of vi's relationships...she even starts yelling it louder and louder as they go on...they discuss the reasons directly in class after she tells her story...
shareyou're not black
i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners
http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black
Dirty talk does it for some people! She is using very taboo terms, and often, the thrill of doing something that is 'frowned upon' makes the situation more intense. It's no different than some people getting turned on by having sex in public... You're pushing the envelope in both cases, just in different ways.
It kinda flips our perception of slavery as well, doesn't it? Another detail that adds to the shock.
Do you like having sex? Then DON'T buy a Nintendo!
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Uh, I like to be called a dirty boy and stuff. Some people like to be called dirty, nasty, an idiot, a piece of *beep* etc. That's sex.
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pre·ten·tious: characterized by assumption of dignity or importance.
yep, that's what i was thinking about the scene. just one big Fetish.
Warner Music Group Sucks!
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one thing i want to know is did he *beep* her in the ass or in the vag?
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