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Hollywood's treatment of Nazi Germany vs. Communist USSR

posted 11 years ago by Unintended_Consequence
69 replies | jump to latest

A case can certainly be made that both were extraordinarily evil, and excelled in cruelty, murder and destruction.

Yet there are some differences in how Hollywood treats them.

There have been hundreds, maybe thousands, of feature films, TV shows and documentaries about Nazi Germany rightfully portraying it as a blight on humanity and horrible. But how many about the USSR, which was at least as bad? Nazism endured barely more than a decade, but the horrors of Communism almost a century. Nazism was never successfully exported outside of Germany, but forms of Communism infected many nations and a much larger population. There are actually Marxists employed at public universities in the US, paid with tax dollars. I don't think (and certainly hope not) that there are any Nazis. So why aren't there a lot more productions about Communism?

Search IMDb for titles:
Nazi: 1687
Communist: 564
Nazi Germany: 253
USSR: 94

With Nazism you have one wildly compelling central character, and several goons and oddballs after him. With Communism you have Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Molotov, Stalin, Khrushchev, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Il Sung, etc. What a treasure trove of exceptional stories with a worldwide scope and really exploring the nature of totalitarian evil. And in some form it still exists today. But there's really not much compared to the obsession with everything Hitler. (In fact, A&E used to be referred to as "The Hitler Channel" because of all the programming having to do with him.

In movies such as The Spy Who Came in From the Cold, or "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" and dozens of others, there is often a moral ambiguity proposed, and the characters often express this by saying things like, "We're not all that different, them and us." You never see that in films about the fight against the Nazis. It's almost as if the left-leaning folks who produce all that entertainment and documentaries kind of cut the Commies a break. "Sure they made some mistakes, but isn't equality a wonderful goal?"

Maybe it's Leftist naiveté. I don't know.

But if the tables were turned I just don't see a film like "Enemy at the Gates" ending with a note about a Nazi sniper's rifle being on display at a museum. Do you?

BIG GOVERNMENT = small citizen
No, that does not mean I am an anarchist

[–] LukeLovesFilm28 9 years ago

I think they need to start shedding more light on the horrible crimes against humanity committed by Stalin and his Russian thugs. From what I understand, they were directly responsible for enslaving and murdering 66 million Russian Christians.

We don't hear about it, because everything was masked by the conspiracies during the Cold War. We can't start pointing fingers at the Russians without risking WWIII.

[–] Black_Lies_Matter 9 years ago

Great post. The answer, which I'm sure you already know, is that Hollywood is controlled by Jews and leftists who are slightly Communist themselves.

[–] lumosnight 9 years ago

The reason that there are more movies about the Nazis is because there are a lot of people of Jewish and German heritage in the US, so Hollywood caters to this public.

The US doesn't know much about what happened in the Soviet Union, they mainly relied on rumours and made a lot of scaremongering anti-communist propaganda, a lot of which had no proof.

Personally, I think that the Nazis were infinitely much worse than the Soviets. The Nazis systematically worked on exterminating entire ethnicities (Jews, Slavs and Romas), they were interested in taking over Europe (and eventually, the world) and anyone who didn't fit into their cookie cutter ideal of the Aryan race was to be eliminated. The Soviets were on the other hand heroes who fought of this fascist menace and actually liberated a number of countries from the Nazi occupation. My country (Yugoslavia) was suffering under the Nazi oppression and their supporters, and the Soviets managed to push them away.

However, some countries then became satellite states of the Soviet Union as a result. Yugoslavia remained independent, aligning itself with neither the West nor the East.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

How many movies have you seen about the atrocities carried out by capitalist countries?

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

What are the "atrocities" which compare to the tens of millions slaughtered by various Communist regimes in the 20th century?

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

How about the eradication of ten million people in the Belgian Congo alone, just to name one example?

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Source?

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Feel free to start with King Leopold's Ghost by Adam Hochschild.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Look, can we just agree that imperialism over the centuries has been the cause of a great deal of death and suffering? That has been true of monarchies, Marxist regimes and capitalist nations. Blaming it on capitalism is only part of the story. Wars of conquest and empire as as old as war.

But ONLY Marxism has such a death toll and in such a very short period of time. There are no other examples of nations slaughtering their own people in such grotesque numbers.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Yeah, I came up with the same answer. Imbecile.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Feel free to read Late Victorian Holocausts by Mike Davis. Imbecile.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

He is a self-defined international socialist and "Marxist-Environmentalist"



No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

And that impacts his book in what way?

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

It speaks to his bias and credibility.

Someone in Triple K leadership writing about race would also be suspect.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Oh, so you're one of those people who only like to read stuff that confirms your beliefs. Got it.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Oh, so you're one of those people who doesn't understand simple English.

*

My point, which you got so upset about, is that Hollywood has made perhaps 100 times more movies about the horrors of mid-20th century Germany and precious few about the greater horrors of Marxism.

It's simply true, and partially it's because the show business crowd leans left and tends to excuse leftist killers, like Ho Chi Minh or Fidel Mastro.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Greater horrors of Marxism? So I guess you would have liked it if the Germans won? The revisionism of today's right wing is astounding.

How many movies has the communist hotbed in Hollywood made about right wing killers like Suharto or [insert Latin American or Middle East dictator of choice here]?

Please, Ho Chi Minh was nothing, nothing, compared to the genocidal atrocities carried out by the US and its fascist South Vietnamese puppet regime. Have some respect.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Greater horrors of Marxism? So I guess you would have liked it if the Germans won? The revisionism of today's right wing is astounding.
Quality of Straw Man fallacy: 2.5/10.0

How many movies has the communist hotbed in Hollywood made about right wing killers like Suharto or [insert Latin American or Middle East dictator of choice here]?
It's funny that you equate them to the 8-figure death tolls of the USSR or Mao's China. of course, there are Soviet-allied middle east dictators too, such as Haffez Assad and Gamal Nasser.

Please, Ho Chi Minh was nothing, nothing, compared to the genocidal atrocities carried out by the US and its fascist South Vietnamese puppet regime. Have some respect.
Nonsense.
But let's throw in Pol Pot, who murdered about a fourth of his own country.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Do you mean the same Pol Pot that the vicious communist regime of Vietnam overthrew? The same Pol Pot that the United States supported? I'm not sure how that helps your argument. Nor is bringing up the Egyptian dictatorship, as it has been the second largest recipient of US military aid for decades, all while oppressing its own people.

That both Stalin and Mao were genocidal monsters is common knowledge. That's not controversial and a fact known by most, if not everyone. But how about the 8-figure death tolls of capitalist imperialism that people (including yourself) are clueless about? Clearly there's a need for enlightenment there, and why not in the form of movies?

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

The US "supported" Pol Pot? Did it force this Communist to murder a good portion of his entire country?

Nasser and Assad were clients of the Soviet Union.

"Capitalist Imperialism?" Yes, and Soviet imperialism and imperialism of monarchies. As I said, imperialist atrocities are as old as war.

But my OP stands. The massive slaughter of Communist regimes gets all but a free pass from authors, fiction filmmakers, documentarians, etc.

End of story.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Yes, the US did support Pol Pot. The people of Cambodia were saved by Communist Vietnam.

And all Egyptian leaders since, except for the one and only democratically elected leader, Muhammad Morsi, have been clients of the United States. How does that help your argument?

But my OP stands. The massive slaughter of capitalist regimes gets all but a free pass from authors, fiction filmmakers, documentarians, etc.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Foreign_Heroes_of_the_Soviet_Union

Wrong: Just in terms of Vietnam alone, I think there are probably as many Hollywood movies featuring the US as the villan, and ignoring the brutal totalitarianism of Ho Chi Minh, as there are Hollywood movies which depict the monumental slaughter and cruelty of Marxism worldwide.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

What were you hoping to prove with your Wikipedia link? Or are you just throwing out links at random, hoping that something will stick?

You might have missed the news, but in Vietnam the United States was the bad guy. There are no two ways about it. A fascist, genocidal occupying force hellbent on causing death and destruction. You can lament as much as you want about Ho Chi Minh, he liberated his country from the raging lunatic state that had occupied it.

Slaughter and cruelty sums up capitalism rather well. The difference is that it goes on to this day. Not that you care.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

I live in the United States, which, while imperfect, and even sometimes terribly flawed, has liberated more people in it's short history than any nation in the history of Mankind.

Capitalism lifts people up out of poverty and improves their lives. Economic freedom of choice works well with political freedom of choice, and the opposite is true as well. It's not utopia but only cultists dream of that. No, it makes things better, that is true.

Look at Hong Kong vs. China
South Korea vs. North Korea
West Germany vs. East Germany
Western Europe vs. Eastern Europe

So why are you ashamed to admit where you live? Are you "working in the movie business" on some collective farm, or deep in the heart of the capitalist Hollywood business world? Are you a hypocrite who lives off the fat of the land while your brothers and sisters labor for Daddy Warbucks without you beside them? Do you invite them over to swim in your pool or is that getting a little too close?

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

*Cue heartfelt string and bald eagle landing on snow capped mountaintop, clutching an American flag in its talons*

Yeah, the US sure has liberated millions of people. And by liberating, I mean killing them. The patriotic blinders are very amusing. It doesn't explain the fact that capitalism has killed, and is still killing, millions of people. Not that you care. You only care when people are being killed in the name of the wrong ideology. That's hypocrisy at its finest.

Judging from your view of the movie business I can only assume that you've never even set foot on a movie set or worked a single day in the industry if you think it's all glitz and glamour where everyone has an estate with a swimming pool. What a simpleton you are.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

You're ashamed to admit where you live. (I'm guessing you're a raging leftist hypocrite who has benefited from American capitalism, but you're too gutless to come out and admit it).

No, "liberated" as in driving out totalitarians and fascists, by force and other means, and making people's lives better in the process. I can give several examples. Where are the millions living the good life under Marxism?

Judging from your view of the movie business I can only assume that you've never even set foot on a movie set or worked a single day in the industry if you think it's all glitz and glamour where everyone has an estate with a swimming pool.

So you're a failure after almost a quarter of a century. My sympathies.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

I'm not ashamed, it's just none of your business. Why would I tell some random *beep* on the internet where I live?

You mean the same Marxists that liberated Europe from fascists? The same Marxists that had been fighting fascists in Europe for years before the US bothered to get to it? I'm not sure how that helps your argument there, bub.

And the good old United States continued to liberate the poor downtrodden masses by supporting bloody military coups and dictatorships all over the world, all in the name of liberty of course.

It's clear that you're some pathetic wannabe with a warped view of the movie business. If you had the talent to work in it, I'm sure you wouldn't have had such a nonsensical and childish view of it.

Now go kill some Muslims, it's what you people do best, isn't it?

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Refusing to reveal your country of residence has nothing to do with personal security. Do you expect anyone to believe that? It has to do with concealing your hypocrisy. Either you are somewhat successful in the capitalist movie business (making you a hypocrite for not being in the fields on some collective farm) or you're a failure. I don't expect you to admit to either one.

Marxism has enslaved 100 times more people than it has liberated. I gave examples.

I would never say that the United States has not allied with some odious and even evil people, but at the same time so has every other great power. But comparing us to perfection is another disingenuous trick of the Left. I would compare us to every other nation and I find our record to be admirable.

Marxism brought us the Soviet Gulag, Mao's Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot's Killing Fields, and Castro's prison island.

The US and capitalism produced the economic miracle of South Korea (oh yes, your side gets North Korea as well), Western Europe, Hong Kong and Japan.

You chose the wrong side years ago and through pride and stupid inertia refuse to let it go.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

And capitalism brought us mass starvation, Nazis and the United States. Yay!

To hear an American talking about prison island and Cuba is very amusing. Isn't that where you have one of your concentration camps, or maybe you would like to call it a Gulag? Not to mention the countless secret prisons and torture dungeons, "black sites" in the American vernacular, where countless people have disappeared. Or how about when the United States, the bastion of democracy, outsourced its torture to loyal vicious dictatorships in places like Syria and Uzbekistan. All in the name of liberty, of course.

You chose the side that's still mass murdering poor people and you're proud of it. I'm surprised you're able to write with your right arm stuck in the air. Kudos.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Wow, hysterical and extreme lies from the Left? Never saw that coming. You've passed the point where bothering with you is worth my time.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Yes yes, tuck your tail between your legs. I understand that it's embarrassing for a capitalist like you to confront what you've caused, and still cause.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Advanced democratic capitalist countries (in particular the United States) are the ONLY reason goofballs like you aren't swinging a pick in some gulag if you survived Marxist reeducation.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Yeah, if I was Muslim I guess advanced democratic capitalist countries (in particular the United States) would have murdered me and my entire family already.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

If you were Muslim your best chance at economic prosperity, safety and security, and religious freedom would be to flee to a capitalist country such as the US.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Yes, thank you US for mass murdering Muslims! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

In which country do you reside?

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

The republic of none of your business.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago



Probably some successful capitalist liberal democracy the treats Muslims better than in any Muslim-run country.

I understand why you would refuse.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Yup, one of those successful capitalist liberal democracies that has supported Middle East dictators for decades, while those oppressive regimes have trampled upon their own people, much to your amusement.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

We both know why you refuse to say in what country you live, and it's because it's offered you and people like you safety and security and rights you would never dream of otherwise. And your tiny Marxist mind can't tolerate giving it credit for that.

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Yes massa, thanks for not murdering me and my entire family like you do to those Muslims! Aw lawdy yes!

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] Unintended_Consequence 9 years ago

Oh my, you are a nutbag, aren't you? 

No qualifications, no standards, no foresight, no problem.

[–] shanayneigh 9 years ago

Yes, have a good hearty laugh about all those Muslims your beloved democracy has slaughtered. You guys make ISIS look like amateurs.

Working in the movie business since -92

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]