Gah I find him incredibly annoying! He walks around believing he's so cool and he has a fan club of girls. Really? Have they not seen Sam Seaborn. I don't know watching this, it seemed like the show was trying to force me to fall in love with Josh and I just didn't and just rolled my eyes every time he spoke.
shareI dislike him too :)
His personality is jarring to me, his emotional responses are not professional, his relationships with women always have him behaving immaturely-majorly dislike him. I've only liked his interactions with Leo and that's because it's mostly Leo.
Having watched almost every episode, I'd say Josh is the central character, probably the one Aaron Sorkin based most on himself, or the character he most wanted to be. And the relationship between Josh and Donna is the greatest love story ever written.
Josh Lyman IS the West Wing.
Bradley Whitford himself said he was born to play the role. He ends up with all the best lines because he delivers them like a master. And he ends up hogging all the best story lines.
I've just binge watched the whole series, and it really is all about him after a while so if you don't like him, I suggest you stop watching now.
Rob Lowe never stood a chance. No wonder he exited stage left in a huff.
Josh, CJ, Toby, Leo... what an extraordinary ensemble cast that elevates the work, and it in turn elevates them... the recipe for the perfect show... there are times when Josh says something that's petty and cocky... he often cares too much about optics, but they all do, and in ways that is the dirty truth of politics...
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** SPOILERS ***
The problem with Josh, is that he has tunnel-vision on his job and the political arena around him. Everything else - including relationships - is just secondary.
He lives, breathes & sleeps politcs. And even when he gets involved with a relationship (Mandy or Amy), they're always talking shop once they've "done the business" in the bedroom.
In one of the episodes in S7 ("Transition" I think), when Donna & Josh finally consumate their passion for one-another, the following morning, we see Josh on his laptop sitting at a table; and Donna walks into the room. First thing Josh says to her is something about Education policy & teacher tenure! No "good morning, darling!" no "hey, you look beautiful!" no "thanks for last night". not even a "hi!"
Donna ignores all those questions and just asks him how long he's been awake, until he eventually realises she's not going to play his game and relents slightly.
I don't think Josh was ever really happy in his other relationships because it appeared to be just a case of 23 hours talking politics, and perhaps an hour (at best!) getting to know his partner without talking! Amy & Mandy were perfect foils because they were equally shallow, equally suffereing from tunnel-vision for the same reason.
At least Donna had a slightly more realistic/real-worldness about her; something Josh couldn't initially understand or appreciate. He always had this superiority complex with Donna, but only in his political world, and not the real one.
When Donna was promoted to Chief-of-Staff to the new First Lady, Josh was completely kicked off a tangent. And when she threw down the ultimatum about where their relationship was going to go, he eventually relented some more (although Sam's intervention greased the wheels somewhat)
However, had there been an 8th season, I don't think the relationship would have lasted! Josh would have got bored; Donna would have become frustrated. End Game!
And that's one reason why Josh is so irritating at times! Brilliant of course, but arrogant with it; aloof, almost dictatorial at times. Trying to convince Sam to rejoin the Santos government being one example - he'll resort to almost anything in order to get his way.
So Josh has some good qualities, but lots of really annoying ones.
“When is old news gonna be old news?”
― Arnold Vinick
I think you're right about Josh and Donna not making a good couple.
Back in the 20s, there was this ugly little gnome in Washington named Louis Howe. He was married to politics, and dedicated his entire life to making FDR president.
He never took time to care about anything else, though he eventually developed a good friendship with Eleanor.
Leo was Louis Howe. He gave up his good marriage (and if it wasn't good, it was because he let it get that way) for politics, and died alone.
All Josh ever wanted to be was Leo. He never would have made Donna a priority, and that's what people have to do if they want a solid, lasting marriage--make their spouse a priority. She would have dumped him eventually, and a good thing.
She had outgrown him anyway. She would eventually build a good relationship with a real man, not an overpoliticized boy.
That said, I like Josh, too. He has charm, to be sure, but he's pretty one-dimensional. Outside of the political arena, he's clueless.
Josh may have said he wanted to be Leo, but he wasn't like him in so many ways. He wasn't an addict first of all, the job was not the first time Leo put his marriage second. Josh was much more loyal to people then Leo ever was (especially Josh).
As for his relationship with Donna specifically, he'd already proven himself at least twice. She came before the job, when he committed a federal crime to protect her when she perjured herself for him and when he left in the middle of a crisis to be by her side.
eh, not buying it so much. Look what Leo did when Josh got PTSD in Season 2, Noel. "As long as I got a job, you got a job, you understand?"
And Josh is an addict, but his drug isn't booze and Vicodan, it's politics. Same difference.
And how often did he yell for Donna, used her only for what he wanted to accomplish politically, neglected her own professional growth, put her down, and was completely indifferent to her needs, especially when she wanted to give him two weeks' notice?
You really don't "get Josh". He doesn't leave people! And I may be wrong, but the only time I can think of where he seriously put Donna down was just before his PTSD diagnosis in the Portland Trip. He didn't meet with her, because he didn't want her to leave. If she hadn't left the white house first, he probably never would have either.
As far as using her and not advancing her growth, he was having her do her job assisting him? The show really warped job descriptions, she was an assistant to the DCOS; later she was actually doing an ADCOS job. If you watch I think it's the pilot where they show he had a full staff of assistant deputies (it's a scene where Sam comes into his office to steal fruit and takes an assignment). Donna wasn't qualified to do that job and she never did anything (like Charlie getting a degree) to advance herself. Though she in the end didn't need a degree, because she had a master's class in politics from Josh.
Amy Gardner: "Are you in love with Josh?"
shareJosh was my favourite from the start!
shareIt seems that you just need a Josh Encounters of the Third Kind
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I KNOW! One of my favorite moments is when Josh fills in temporarily as Press Secretary, assuring Andy that he went to Harvard and Yale, so he can clearly outmaneuver a bunch of journalists. And they proceed to make mincemeat of him. *evil laugh*
(By the way, viewers in other countries must think we only have about three colleges here. Even the gardeners and window washers went to Harvard.)
Danny, not Andy. "more than a match for the Socratic wonder that is the White House Press Corps." But keep trying, grasshopper. You will one day become a full-fledged, obsessive Wingnut like so many of us. xD
sharethe President's secret plan...? Both Josh and Toby fell for the press gallery's penchant for the 'gotcha' question. It's what annoys me about modern media and love about these characters.
If you've watched In the Shadow of 2 Gunmen and 20 Hours in America, and you don't love Josh... well, at least he tried.
Sam Seaborn was my favorite character and, dare I say it, the true best character of the series. As much as it pissed me off that Martin Sheen never won an Emmy, I was way more angry that Rob Lowe never received one. But Lowe kind of screwed himself up submitting for Lead every season over Supporting. He got nominated for Season 2 Lead Actor, along with Sheen, but there was no way that he had a chance over Sheen, the clear lead, or James Gandolfini, who won for The Sopranos that year, and pretty much every other year of the series!
In regards to Josh, maybe I'm biased against Bradley Whitford because he always seemed to play assh*ole characters in film in the 90s, so Josh always came across as prickish and smarmy, to me.
re: Josh. He was, a lot of the time.
shareHe had flaws but I liked him because he was generally the only one to think the conservatives might have a point and, regardless, realistic to realize going hard left all the time wouldn't succeed.
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