Am I the only one who found the final shot of Hawk's body on the moon, accompanied by Frank Sinatra, to be so very, extremely disturbing? I mean, I get what the filmaker was trying to do, and I suppose its a fitting end. But I can't help thinking about him, stuck up there, slowly suffocating. The whole way it was put together just strikes me as morbid.
shareBetter to burnout than fade away?
shareYes. If he had burned out, rather than crash on the moon, slowly crawl onto a rock, and there sit and wait while the oxygen ran out. Plenty of time for him to think about his choices, eh?
shareHe made a choice: suffocate over a few minutes or die slowly of cancer.
Go out with a bang, achieving something that was a major dream (land on the moon) or with a whimper in a hospital bed with no control over your bodily functions in agony.
Some choice. Who WOULDN'T take option A?
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In the beginning of the film when Hawk and Frank are at peak altitude, Hawk looks up at the moon and says something like, "I don't know how, but someday I'm going there". He got his wish.
shareAlso, when Hawk is saying "I don't know how, but someday I'm going there" he starts singing "fly Me to the Moon", which is what is playing at the end. I actually teared up a little during that ending.
shareI thought the ending was jubilant. There he was, propped up against a moon rock with his visor down, watching the Earth rise. I can think of few more unique and enthralling ways to pass on. His biggest dream was his final achievement. Not many of us can say that!
Besides, Hawk was a risk taker. That's what made him great, and made the moment completely in keeping with his character.
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But he died through slow suffocation. No amount of hero worship or cancer is going to make that experience pleasant! we're animals who go absolutely *beep* when death is upon us. Survival instinct and all that.
shareSlow suffocation? Five minutes, max.
Cancer? Two to six months of losing to extreme pain, loss of bladder and bowel control, loss of strength - and more pain.
Simple choice.
Remember Brian Keith? Blew his brains out rather than face a lingering death by cancer.
Extreme pain? They put people on morphine/Thorazine drips for that reason. A cancer patient doesn't have to feel any pain as they are dying. As for incontinence of bladder and bowel well, yeah, that can be an unfortunate complication as a person dies. They created Hospice care so patients can die pain free and with dignity, and so their families can be cared for just like the patient is. This is part of the reason I wanted to be an RN, to help people get well again or die a peaceful and dignified death.
If it were me, I would not simply give up like THAT. Mind you, I'm only 22, but if someone told me I had stage 4 cancer with mets and I only had 6 months to live, I would take the time to spend with loved ones, get married to my girlfriend, etc. Once the pain would become worse, start narcotics and titrate as pain level increases.
The character as played by Tommy Lee Jones submitting to meds and a hospital bed?
Or go out fulfilling a lifelong dream?
I would have to say space and the moon is amazing. But if i had a wife at the time which i hope to marry my current girlfriend. I would want to die with her by my side if she lives longer then me. But if i have no one in the world left i would rather die on the moon alone then here alone
shareI've watched someone, with Hospice in attendance, die from liver/bowel/bone cancer. I can assure you, he was not completely pain free. He was on a drip plus other pain meds, and pretty much out of it. But his last 2 days were tough. But not pain free.
"Nice candles. Six inches apart?"
Buddy, if you think dying of cancer in a hospice is pain-free, you're crazy. I don't care how much morphine you're on. If you're lucid, you're in pain. Don't kid yourself.
Pancreatic cancer is indeed extremely painful. Claiming that "a cancer patient doesn't have to feel any pain as they are dying" just shows that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Trust me, I know three people that have died of pancreatic cancer.
shareMy mother was in plenty of pain as she died of cancer, even with the morphine. Lasted a little over four months. I'd take five minutes of suffocation, thanks.
"You keep calling me Walter. I don't like you," -Rorschach
wow you're so naive.
While they give you morphine, it's somtimes not enough for the patient. And their excuse for not giving a few more mg "we don't want the patient to become an addict"... an addict... a dying patient.
22 is no excuse, you need to educate yourself.
Speaking from personal experience their deaths is far from peaceful due to their pain.
"Wait!" "Worry" "Who Cares?"
www.alienexperience.com
tiwwa.info/
Nope. Cancer's terrible. I've watched people die of cancer. Do you know how it feels when you have to ask your grandson to help you with your diaper. Of course not, at that point, you don't have it together enough to ask. You become repetitive. You don't understand what's happening anymore. Even on morphine, you're in tremendous pain all the time. You can't sleep. You appear asleep but your not. You start to lose command. You get very confused. You get to the point where you can't even say "I want to die" That's what health care directives are for. But you hold on anyway because your body is strong. Your body fights, but your mind isn't sharp enough to say "Let me go." Soon you can't even try to stand. Then you forget how to do basic things. You still recognize people but you're locked into your failing body. Then you're in and out for a while. When you're lucid, in the morning, you remember that you are actively dying, then you sundown by afternoon. Eventually, you don't wake up, then you decline, you don't eat or drink, but you are essentially strong. It takes a week for you to die even though your mind is gone.
Asphyxia from breathing just CO2 is fairly quick and painless. You'll get a few seconds of panting, then calm, then die. Lot's of people die from it. Far better than the month or so of terminal cancer.
Don't forget also, he lost his wife to cancer and said he did NOT want to go the same way. I'm sure he didn't exactly fall in love with the idea of suffocating in solitude but given the way he was and what he knew was in store it was actually a positive for him. As sad as it is to think about (Of course the point of the emotional devices in hollywood films) his character would have been overjoyed (slightly mad/high on the idea of going to moon at last!). He turned a terminal negative into an opportunity to help fellow humans, sort out a situation, take on an important challenge, avoid dying in a way he really didn't want to face AND get to visit the moon.. even if only until his air ran out, a lifelong dream.
You have to look beyond the sorrow and see how happy he would have been (comparatively) of course it's a film so don't take it too seriously anyway. If anything his choice of dying is a lot less sad than someone who would do it for far less compelling reasons (i.e Bruce Willis in armageddon who is only doing it cos he loves his Daughter and doesn't want her to lose the man she loves). It's a common device used in films for years, but all the back story was there and the character played pretty much spot on by TLJ to make it believable that he would have wanted that end compared to almost all other options. He'd go down in history too.
yes, it is sad to see, the lonelyness of it all. but he was a risktaker, a high wire artist mindset, and his lifelong dream had been to get to the moon. but, above and beyond that, *someone* had to take the job of disposing of the bombs. logically, he was the best choice-he knew he would die soon anyway. and anyone with an ounce of courage and love of our country would.
and i dont know that he would have wanted to marry his NASA girlfriend, only to make her a widow in a few months....that seems very selfish. good for him, but giving her more pain, by watching hin die by inches, as he had watched his wife die.
on a more technical note, would that sort of landing be survivable? its unbelievable that he would even have enough O2 to be alive and consious when arriving at the moon. and wouldnt the landing be more of a crash? so how could he have survived to drag himself to the rock, to prop himself as he did?
i find myself hoping that NASA would one day go again to the moon, to at least bury him there....as if it were real
~*~~*~
"Ooh!Pass the popcorn! This is gonna be good!"
sharpfish has a perfect synopsis of this. He definitely didn't want chemo or radiation because of watching his wife suffer.
shareI thought the ending was jubilant. There he was, propped up against a moon rock with his visor down, watching the Earth rise. I can think of few more unique and enthralling ways to pass on. His biggest dream was his final achievement. Not many of us can say that!
Besides, Hawk was a risk taker. That's what made him great, and made the moment completely in keeping with his character.
I thought the ending was jubilant.Totally!
Technical note... you can't watch an Earth rise from the surface of the Moon. The same side of the Moon constantly faces the Earth so the Earth will remain more or less motionless from the surface of the Moon.
shareMaybe you could create your own Earthrise by driving from the dark side to the light side.
shareWhy suffocate slowly? As soon as his O2 runs out he'd just have to open his visor - 30 seconds, maximal a minute vs several months (or maybe even years - the docs are good but miss the time one has quiet often. In case of my aunt it was over 5 years instead of 4 months)
shareJust because his oxygen has run out doesn't mean there isn't any gases in his helmet still. He'd just be breathing CO2 amongst others and simply fallen asleep.... Then died
Maybe they could've explained this earlier in the film or perhaps it was and then cut?
That's cool to know. I was wondering myself. Makes sense; running out of oxygen isn't the same as suffocating under water or when somebody strangles you. Your lungs don't stop having stuff to inhale. The stuff that you have is just lacking oxygen so you pass out and than die. I can think of a million worse ways to die than drifting off on the moon and watching the Earth rise.
shareJust for the protocol: the Earth does not rise or set on the Moon. The Moon is in tidal lock with Earth. Because of that one side of the Moon is facing Earth continuously and thus Earth pretty much sits in the same spot in the Moon's sky, day and night. ;)
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~No matter where you go, there you are~
okay, so he got to see the earth wax and wane for a short while.
shareJust because his oxygen has run out doesn't mean there isn't any gases in his helmet still. He'd just be breathing CO2 amongst others and simply fallen asleep.... Then died
Maybe they could've explained this earlier in the film or perhaps it was and then cut?
1. He got to go to the moon before he died, a life long goal that for 40 years he thought was the beginning of the"worst day in his life."
2. He had 8 months to live tops.
3. The love of his life had already died.
4. It was his idea AND he drove 6 nuclear missles away from the earth.
Not bad way to die for a hero.
Damn this was a well written story. The complexity between the two main characters is what great stories are made of.
Of course, the PAM rockets were not designed or equipped to soft-land on the moon so in real life he would simply have crashed into the lunar surface at a couple of thousand MPH and been killed instantly, but the final scene clearly indicates he survived on the lunar surface -- you can see the wreckage of his "pilot harness" on the IKON module, and then a track in the moon dust as he crawled away from the wreck, before propping himself up against the rock before his air ran out.
shareHe would have never reached the moon.
Twenty Thousand Miles of fuel would not even get you close to the lunar surface.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'
Dittos to all who have said he may have gone to sleep, after running out of air, it may have been painless, and then again...the nukes.
Forget the physics---in this movie---he made a soft enough landing to be able to prop himself on the rock, watch the Earth rise, realize he saved the United States from a huge set of destructive nukes, made it to the moon, accomplished his portion of the mission, kept his word to Barbara (made sure Frank made it back), and didn't die old and useless like his SR-71.
Space, have to pick space.
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Here's something to take a quantum of solace in then:
Assuming his aim was correct, and the rockets and bodies were sent to the moon, the sudden acceleration could have killed him. If it didn't, it would still take about four days for him to get to the moon. He doesn't have that much oxygen, and though he asked for more oxygen tanks, that might not have been enough. If it was enough oxygen, he probably didn't have the water to prevent him from dying of dehydration before he got there. If he had enough water, his space diapers would be full to the brim of piss and *beep* since they're designed to hold enough waste for a few hours, not days. If those didn't kill him, his suit's not designed to protect against the Van Allen radiation belt, which could have killed him.
Now, assuming he actually got to the moon, still living and breathing at this point, there's absolutely nothing to slow him down, except the tiny gravity from the sun and faraway Earth, which would quickly be overshadowed by the increasing gravity of the moon. The gravity of the moon is less than that of the Earth, but there's no atmosphere, and no terminal velocity, and nothing to slow him down, he would move faster and faster towards the moon, as fast as gravitational acceleration will allow, until he lands on the moon like a meteor. So assuming that he was still living while plummeting to the surface of the moon, his last memory would be all of his bones breaking and his flesh and suit being turned into a flat, pulpy mess of flesh, bone, fabric, electronics, and glass.
So, on the bright side, the very LAST thing you should worry about is that he'll slowly die from suffocation while on the moon. :-)
Actually, come to think of it, the 9/10 I gave the movie was too hasty. It deserves a 7/10.
lol I wondered how deep into the comments I'd read before someone realizes there's no way he'd just safely land on the moon like that. It's absurd that anything but him being pulverized on impact would even be considered as a result.
shareAt worst, Frank would suffer only a minor radiation burn when transiting the Van Allen Radiation Belts on his way to the moon.
(See: http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/tour/AAvan.html)
But I like how you addressed the topics of dehydration, etc. :-)
OP: Guess what's FAR MORE EXTREMELY DISTURBING?
The only person in the family of my best friend from high school onward (who actually designed hand tools in Texas used on the shuttles) whom I've never met: his sister who died aboard the Columbia space shuttle....
It's ALL about perspective & what really matters.
Whenever I see this movie I think to myself at the end. There is no way in Hell that suit could be intact at all.
shareIt was and me too.
sharethanks for the spoiler alert
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