The holocaust was a very serious and sad thing that happened, so I do not find it a good idea to have made a Back to the Future type teen time travel film about it. If they want ed to make a holocaust movie for teenagers and families, they could have hadit be about a girl who already lived in Poland during WWII and was sent to a concentration camp, rather than a hip American teen from the 90s "magically" transported to Nazi Europe.
shareI think that since the book was intended for a present-day, younger, American audience, both it and the movie were written so as to cater to this audience and make it most interesting to this group so as to launch more of an interest in the Holocaust.
share
Obvioulsy, you are entitled to your opinion. But I am going to show it at my syangogue on Sunday (Holocaust Remembrance Day). Probably everyone there will be 35 or older, but I think they will find it valuable nonetheless.
Actually, as one who has visited the camps as a teen (March of The Living 1996) I found this movie to be one of the most realistic and heartfelt movies about The Holocaust in a long time, especially since it is geared toward teens who have no idea what life was like in the camps.
I found it to be honest, mature and above all, a valuable piece of cinema to be used in teaching teens about the Holocaust and its effects. I use it as a learning tool for the teens I advise in BBYO (B'nai Brith Youth Organization- the largest Jewish youth group in the world) and each time, they come away with a new perspective of what it was like for their families and lost loved ones. Lets face it: somewhere in every Jew's family history there is a lost Martyr in the Holocaust, or a Survivor. This just puts it into perspective for them, and shows them what it REALLY was like. Add in their fav actresses, Kirsten Dunst and Brittany Murphy (to us, maybe not so much, but to 15 year olds, most def)and you have a true attention getter that makes the kids want to watch it.
Again, I have been there, I have seen the 7 tons of human ashes at Majdanek, and the scratches and imbedded fingernails in the gas chambers of Aushwitz and Birkenau. I toured these places with survivors, who showed us where they hid when the SS came to round them up in the Radom Ghetto... I thought this movie showed life and death perfectly. The choices of giving in to death or fighting another day, the selection processes, the cold nights and horrible work conditions... all of it really happened, and to show them Schindlers list is good enough, but to make them relate to the ages and mindsets of the characters drives it home even harder.
just my opinion...
"I use it as a learning tool for the teens I advise in BBYO (B'nai Brith Youth Organization- the largest Jewish youth group in the world)"
The B'nai Brith is not a 'youth organization' - it's a propaganda movement used to threaten and coerce people from reporting anything unfavorable about Jews. BTW, did you know that this organization has a troubling history of pedophilia, including harboring child pornography and counts a child murderer (Leo Frank) as their president once!
Really, people like you should not be left anywhere near children, much less be 'teaching' them anything?
"The B'nai Brith is not a 'youth organization' - it's a propaganda movement used to threaten and coerce people from reporting anything unfavorable about Jews. BTW, did you know that this organization has a troubling history of pedophilia, including harboring child pornography and counts a child murderer (Leo Frank) as their president once!"
Okay a) BBI and BBYO are two sererate entities, get your facts straight before you start spewing your hate. BBYO was formed in 1927 and 1941, respectively, to give Jewish teens a sense of pride and Jewish identity. It teaches its members leadersip, philanthropy, pride, tolerance and acceptance. Not ONCE in the 5 years I was a member, nor the 7 years after that I was an advisor, did we EVER "threaten" or "coerce" people from reporting "unfavorable" information about Jews. Even though I am no longer advising in BBYO, I still would defend them and their mission and vision to the end. I can't say what I don't know about BBI, however, if you want to talk pedaphiles, should we even mention the Catholic Church, college sports establishments or teachers? Get real. Individuals are sick pedophiles, not whole groups of people. Sterotypes like that (or the ones I just mentioned) are what further hate and keep this world from true greatness. Ignorance, hate spewing, propaganda and coersion are clearly YOUR forte.
And b) people like me? You mean a well educated, mentally and emotionally stable woman who works with physically and mentally challenged children as a THERAPIST? Stop bring a troll, responding to something that was posted 5 years ago, obviously you're the one who shouldn't be around children as your objective would be to teach them hate and not tolerance.
Be gone troll. I will respond no longer to your baiting words.
"It teaches its members leadersip, philanthropy, pride, tolerance and acceptance"
Considering all the Anti-Muslim and anti-Arab propaganda your organization funds, I'd deem it a failure.
"...should we even mention the Catholic Church, college sports establishments or teachers?"
Yeah, but none of these Institutions had their presidents convicted and then hung by lynch mobs afterwards. I didn't even mention all the loads of child porn found on premises belonging to them!
"You mean a well educated, mentally and emotionally stable woman who works with physically and mentally challenged children as a THERAPIST?"
For a so-called 'mentally and emotionally stable woman', you seem to get pretty hyper in your post...
You've only had two posts on this username yet still replied quick enough. Which means that you probably post here frequently under other usernames to further your agenda. Tough luck 'educating' people.....
Salimy3k, based on these and your other posts I get a feeling you are Muslim, therefore anything you say inparticular about the Jewish people or Isreal is tanamount to the lies and propaganda the NAZI's pushed on humanity. I have faces Islamofascists such as yourself in the deserts of the Middle East and have reuturned alive, they have not. Isreal and we who support her and all her people are too powerful for anything like what the NAZI's did to happen again, no matter what you Islamofascists try. I don't know how much of the Koran you know, but there must be some passages teaching Muslims not to hate(based on the horrors I saw in Iraq, they hated other Muslims as much as us, so maybe some lessons are not paid attention to). In closing, if the choice is between the agenda of the Jewish people and Muslims, then by God, as a Catholic I am so for the Jewish people.
shareThe wonderful thing about anti-semites like you are that they show themselves so easily. Interesting that you would bring up Leo Frank, who was lynched by a rabid group of racist, antisemitic Southerners, simply for being a "Yankee Jew". I can only imagine you would have been one of them, foaming at the mouth, as you are here, as you did it. Apparently, the only one who spews propaganda are you and whatever 'sources' you use, and propagate.
Of course, none of this has anything to do with this movie, so frankly, I'm not sure why your post was even allowed to stay, but simply you putting it here, reveals you, again, for what you are and what your agenda really is.
Wow... Sharib, that's one of the most mean-spirited things I've seen here. that person isn't a troll. The troll is in your mirror.
You know what they say... no one with missing teeth wears an Armani suit.
Seriously? Seriously? Dude, get a life. My original post was written in 2007. Its 2012. Something tells me you've got nothing better to do with your time than respond to years old posts... Once again, I say be gone troll! Before someone drops a house on you too.
I will not be baited into any long winded discussions or back and forth arguments defending my self, my post, or my religion. I am officially done. I will never reply to this thread again. So dont bother replying. You will not get what you want.
And my mirror reflection's lookin pretty good, thanks.
I think it could be valuable to any generation, actually, Jep. As the book was written in such a way that it was intended towards a younger audience, I believe this was also attempted in the making of the movie.
shareThere are many many MANY movies MADE that should NOT be made (Ishtar, Deuce Bigalow, Police Academy 2-7, etc) This movie is not one of them. This film was moving, powerful and important. There was a Holocaust during WWII, despite what some monsters want us to believe. And movies like this one mean nothing will be forgotten. If only that meant something...
As a Jew, I am ashamed that we are allowing Holocausts to continue in our world. We need to help anywhere people are being treated like animals, whether there is OIL in their country or not. There are "ethnic cleansings" happening right now, now as I type this. We are powerful, and we should stop this anywhere. If we won't do something...who will???
Peace
everyone mentions that this film is good for teaching the young about the holocaust. kudos, if that's true. but it's a bad film. i agree with the posters who find the storyline silly - why does everyone in the past speak english? oh, i'm supposed to suspend my belief ... well, i know it was a bad time for all... i don't have to watch as some ignorant teen learns for herself. uninteresting = bad film. i'm happy it's a good teaching tool.
shareLet me respond to the things people said about this movie in this thread.
1) This film is NOT realistic. It might have given an honest depiction of the Holocaust, except that no teen from the present day actually gets transported back in time to be part of it.
2) Some people have pointed out that this film appeals to teens and more so than other Holocaust films. I was 16 when this film came out and I first heard about it and found it disturbing that they were making this type of film. I was already appalled by all the dark and negative films they showed on Lifetime and other channels and now that they were taking the concepts of hot teen actress from Jumanji and Small Soldiers and teen time travel and were making a movie about the Holocaust out of it I was thinking what is happening to our entertainment.
If there is a movie that is good to show to teenagers to teach them about the Holocaust, I would recommend Europa Europa. This is the movie my mother showed to her class for Holocaust Remembrance Day when she taught teenagers (it was before The Devil's Arithmetic came out, but I'm pretty sure Europa Europa would still be her first choice). That movie does not have that American film feel nor does it have a well known hot teen actress in the lead, but a movie about the Holocaust should not have these things. Nevertheless, it is about a teenager that they can relate to- a teenager who lives a carefree life before this happens and, like Kirsten Dunst's character, does not expect to be thrust into what lies ahead for him. However, he already lives in Europe when and speaks the local languages and does not get magically transported back in time from the U.S. in the 90s. For movies about the Holocaust or any other grim event that happened in history or that is happening now, it is best to make them as straight dramas. For teen time travel fantasies, it's best to live them just as this, fantasies- films such as Back to the Future and Grizzly Mountain. But when the two of them mix, you get a fantasy film that tries to be a serious drama, and that doesn't work. Just one more thing. One tagline for this film was "She experienced the Holocaust first hand". If you just go to a Holocaust museum, read about it, or see a pile of ashes more than 50 years after it happened, you get a little disturbed but also a broader understanding of the world and how cruel some societies can get. However, if you were to actually go back in time to the Holocaust and live through what Kirsten Dunst's character went through in this film, you would be devastated and have nightmares for the rest of your life, much like a rape victim or a Vietnam veteran would experience.
Her character DIED, is that devastating enough?
While you were being so disturbed that they were making the film, did you look into the fact that it wasn't just being made up, but rather based upon a children's book?
I don't think Kirsten's character died in this film. I remember reading that she woke up back in the present as if she had fainted, but discovered that she really was transported to the Holocaust (maybe she was gassed in the camps, but after her "death" she returned to her time). And just because it's based on a book doesn't mean it is an appropriate film to be made.
shareOkay you really need to get over yourself. In a way it is supposed to be disturbing, I mean the holocaust wasn't a funny thing. Just because Kirsten Dunst and Brittany Murphy were in it and they are beautiful people, It doesn't degrade the film at all. I think it brought a younger audience into seeing some of the horrible things that have happened. It is much better to watch in probably a middle school than "Schindler's List". I watched "The Devil's Arithmetic" and read it when I was in middle school and the movie isn't just some stupid teen time travel thing, read the book dumb-ass.
I just wanna suck on a weenie! -Anna Nicole Smith
Wow - are you shortsighted! Kirsten Dunst's character did die - remember, she was perceived to be someone other than her original modern character. So the 1940's character died while the modern one was returned to her present.
And to eliminate this movie as an appropriate film is to remove one more opportunity for modern teens (and others!!!) to learn about and understand the Holocaust. Why would you seek to eliminate an opportunity to be educated about the Holocaust? Your convictions ring false to me.
Also, why should it matter if there was a bit of a fantasy element? The book (and the movie) did not change the realities of the Holocaust. It seems odd to me that you would denigrate a film such as this. That seems to me to smack of elitism - do we really need to be elitists to ensure that people learn the truth about the Holocaust?
Nnnooo, she didn't die, she was transported back; vanished right from the chambers, probably. I respect both the writer of this story, and the people who feel it was not appropriate; personally I found the plot of force-teaching a kid a lesson about her family by shoving them through the grinder of the Holocaust was both rather obvious and awful in many ways.
shareShe did "die" in the camps, but when she did, she was transported back to present day like you said. People should read the book. I read it when I was in middle school and couldn't put it down. Everybody kind of needs to realize that some people like the book, some people like the movie, some people like both, either way, both were made to illustrate a part of history many people forget or actually ARE NEVER TAUGHT. As long as it stays true to realistic events that happened there, people who actually care are probably able to look past a hokey time travel issue in the plot. The POINT is the Holocaust.
shareKirsten's character in the present did not die. Her character in the past did. She went back in time and became her great aunt in Poland during the Holocaust. Her other great aunt who was played by Britany Murphy lived. She was the elderly woman at the Seder dinner. Kirsten's character's great aunt. These 2 women were her grandfather's sisters. Her grandfather was the elderly man who would get upset when they showed the holocaust documentaries on TV and roll up his sleeve to reveal his tattoo. He was a teenager during the holocaust and had the job of carrying dead bodies from the infirmary.
shareThanks Turkey, you made it twice as hard to understand.
shareI have seen Europa Europa and couldn't agree with you more. Many scenes from that movie are still with me.
shareWhile I agree with some of your criticisms of the movie, it is also important to point out certing things:
a) This movie was intended for a much younger generation which means that automatically certain aspects needed to be edited out. I remember seeing a "real" documentary on the holocaust as a young child and its scarred me- having nightmares for months... and while this may seem an appropriate reaction for the subject matter... the sad part is, I couldn't comprehend WHY I was having that reaction and what exactly it was that I was seeing... which means that showing too young an age group the "real" realities is somewhat pointless. You need to cater to what they can handle, at the same time trying to make sure they comprehend the enormity of the situation. Granted there are younger people who could handle the realities of a documentary, but I for one wouldn't show my cousin who is 12 a "real" documentary because I know that at this point in her life she wouldn't be able to handle seeing the WHOLE, graphic truth. But this will be an appropriate beginning- hopefully enough to pique her interst even more.
b) In addition to "sugarcoating" the realities, this movie was created in a way to tailor to a younger generation. Using Kristen Dunst and Brittany Murphy, enormously popular stars will gather notice. Furthermore, to tell the tale of a typical American teenager today enables the audience to relate to the charaters.
c) This movie may be tailored towards teens, but in actuality that means a much younger audience (elementary and pre-teens) will probably be the ones to see the movie. Working in an elementary school, I can't tell you how many parents think that a "made-for-teens" movie means that they think it is appropriate for thier young children as well (i.e. 5-6 year olds)
Again, I understand your criticisms and even agree to an extent. But when looking at this movie and who it was intended for, I understand why they made the changes they did. Finally, the very serious nature of the tragedy aside, this movie is a work of fiction based off a fictional book. The "back to the future" element isn't intended to be real or portray anything that could remotely happen. I am sorry, but sitting the average teen and making them watch a "realistic" movie generally doesn't work. At least not for the teens I have worked with- (those that don't have a personal interest in the subject). Many children and teens I know have a sort of antipathy towards WWII- it is the story that has been told and that might as well have happened 200 years ago- so if making this movie "back to the future" and using Brittany Murphy and Kristen Dunst will get them to listen to a very important piece of history, then so be it.
I did not mind the way they toned down and/or sugarcoated some aspects of the Holocaust. I think in fact it was a good idea to do it if this film is meant for a young audience. But I still have to say that the Kirsten Dunst as 90s blond teen gets transported back in time to the Holocaust concept makes me wince. For a movie that you can show teenagers about the Holocaust, here are my suggestions.
1) Life is Beautiful
While this film was controversial for sugarcoating some elements, The Devil's Arithmetic did that also. Teenagers might enjoy this movie because it is a comedy. Despite those things, however, it does portray the Holocaust as it was- people being sent to concentration camps to die. Some educators, however, may object to teaching about the Holocaust using a comedic film, and I am not sure how comfortable I feel about that idea either. At least this movie does not have Back to the Future type time travel.
2) Europa, Europa
This is a true story about a teenager the audience can relate to who got caught up in the Holocaust and what he did to survive. The sexual scenes may render this film inappropriate for a younger audience, but for teenagers this is a good film to watch, and a film much less cheesy than The Devil's Arithmetic.
3) Paper Clips
Probably the best film to show about the Holocaust to an upper elementary and middle school audience. This is an American film, so a young American audience might enjoy this film more than the above European films with subtitles.It is a documentary not directly about the Holocaust, but about middle schoolers the audience can relate to whose teacher has an ingenious way of using a building full of paper clips to teach them about the Holocaust.
It is a good idea to show films about the Holocaust to high schoolers, middle schoolers, and possibly to upper elementary students, but it is too much of an intense subject for lower elementary kids. For upper elementary and middle school kids, I would suggest Paper Clips, and for high schoolers I would suggest Europa, Europa. The Devil's Arithmetic, despite its annoying features, might be a good movie to show upper elementary and middle school kids, but for high schoolers, even though the main character is their age, this movie is one they might find annoying (I was 16 when this movie came out and did not like its concept). I would also like to say that The Devil's Arithmetic received a TV 14-DSV rating when it first came out, making it hardly an appropriate film for middle and elementary schoolers.
Paper Clips might have been one of the worst documentaries that I have seen. What I got from watching that (several times) was that middle America has no idea what the hell has gone on in the world. It just seemed like a totally backward world and not the children but the teachers. They seemed so out of touch with reality. I live in NYC and have had Holocaust survivors come to my school to speak to my students and I have also shown the Devil's Arthemitic to my students and they thought it was a great, sad movie. The book, which I always recommend to students, is a great way to get them to begin researching the Holocaust.
shareI remember watching this movie after about a quarter of studying the time period. I was devestated that this could happen to people, and I got how big the picture was. The movie though helped, since it is one of those movies that really stuck into my memory and shocked me to the core. I remember thinking, oh geez this has Brittany Murphy in it. Ick, but my mind completely changed after watching the movie. Why does fantasy elements always get the blame for cauing a bad movie when the fantasy element caught everyone's (an dI mean my class) attention? What's wrong with using fantasy to understand the world and history?
shareExcellent Kedeem. "The Pianist" and "Schindler's List" are also winners, and there are various books about it too: one of family members is called "Always Remember Me" about a family who survived, then there's "Number the Stars", "T4", "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas", "Briar Rose", and if you can handle heavy stuff, "Night".
shareI'm 16 and we just watched this film in class, it was horrible. No one liked it. In fact we found it so stupid with the storyline, we detached ourselves from feeling anything for the characters. I felt bad for the character's in Shindler's List and I felt bad for Elie Wiesel while reading Night, but i just can't feel anything for Kirsten Dunst and Brittany Murphy.
shareWhat people seem to be forgetting, is the whole point of the book and the movie.
The Devil's Arithmetic was never meant to be only about the Holocaust. It's about a girl who is embarrassed, to a certain extent, by her Grandfather's emotional response to anything having to do with Nazi's or the Holocaust. She's tired of remembering because she has little understanding of what happened. In her mind, what went on, has no effect on her life. She's wrapped up in her own world and has better things to do with her time than remembering with her elder family members. Is it selfish? Of course. Is it normal? Yes.
The whole time travel excursion, is what forces her to understand what happened. It allows her to live through the atrocities that went on and gives her the compassion that she is so lacking. Only through experiencing the Holocaust first hand, is she able to truly understand the importance of remembering the past. Each new generation that comes along, in turn has to carry the weight of those that were lost, upon their hearts. They must believe that such devastating events can, did, and still happen. Only in believing and remembering can we move forward to a better, more empathetic society.
The film does have some flaws. It does sugar coat events, to a certain extent, but it's based upon a book that was written for pre-teens. While it's not as graphic as Schindler's List, it gets the message across to it's demographic.
myspace.com/javajunkie1975
Absolutely right, Rain King.
I picked it up on DVD today, so logged on to see what the general opinion (without spoilers) was.
Whilst I absolutely agree that the Holocaust is probably the most abhorrent, tragic piece of human history conceivable, my own personal thought about the film is slightly different.
I hadn't realized it was a science-fiction film when I bought it, although given my interest in the Holocaust I probably would have still done. My feeling is that ANY film which makes the Holocaust "accessible" to younger people has to be a good thing. If it provokes any reaction, or causes them to research the subject a little more, that can only be positive.
I'm extremely fortunate that my son, who is 13, shares my passion for films, and regards "The Pianist" as his favourite film, closely followed by "Schindlers List". I can, however, see how they probably wouldn't appeal to his friends. When discussing Schindlers List with him and his friend, you could see the boredom descending over the face of his mate, at the mere prospect of a three hour, black and white war film. I daresay, presented with this, and an actress who younger viewers relate to, may interest him, and with a gentle push, might even persuade him to watch the more demanding films.
Even "Life is Beautiful", which as it's fundamental core is bordering on a comedy, manages to handle the subject with such sensitivity, it is difficult not to be completely blown away by what, on paper, should have been an absolute disaster.
Since I've yet to watch this, I'll reserve judgement on how tastefully done it actually is, but if it promotes Holocaust awareness among people who may otherwise give the subject a wide berth, then I'm all in favour of it.. Those are my thoughts on the subject, and any comments are very welcome. I certainly respect your position, and opinion, that it is a subject not to be taken lightly.
Best wishes
Ollie
You're missing the point. It's about how we should never forget the *beep* people have gone through.
That hip teen was in for a rude awakening and she got one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCah8KZoQq8share
I don't think the movie was made to diminish the importance of the Holocaust but to make the past come alive for teens.
shareI hadn't seen "Schindler's List", but I had read many books about the holocaust and knew what went on, but it was THIS movie that really made me stop and think about what really happened and brought it to life for me. I don't care what device they used--it brought the point across. It made me see how it was. It made me ask questions that I never even thought of before.
And as for the girl being selfish & uncaring, of course she was. She was living in the modern world, and what happened in the holocaust wasn't "real" to her. When it became real (even though it was done in a weird science fiction way), she certainly showed what kind of person she was on the inside and what she was capable of. She sacrificed herself at the end to save her cousin. Even though she "woke up" and was ok, in the context of what was happening, it was real, and she made that choice.
I thought it was a good movie, and it affected me deeply, so I don't see what the complaint is. If it makes people aware and makes them think when they might not have before, it's done it's job.
And I say it definitely did that.
they did this because hannah didn't take her religion which was jewish seriously and she did take into perspective how hard it had been for the older generation of her family to have the freedom that she has. that's why hannah went back in time so she could she could experience how hard it was first hand to live during the holocaust and have a different experience on her religion and her family's suffering!