MovieChat Forums > Mansfield Park (1999) Discussion > Poll: how many people actually want Fann...

Poll: how many people actually want Fanny to pick Henry?


I hear that so often and I get so appalled! Perhaps if you haven't read the book you might feel that way, but when reading the book one should discover clues through the whole thing of how correct Fanny is in denying him. And who can blame her for loving Edmund? The only person in her life that cares and sympathizes and understands. I suppose it is the cousin thing in our time, it does seem gross to some. The next time I read the book I am going to list the clues about Henry's and Mary's vices. It should be enough that he wants to flirt with her just to make her love him and then upon being turned down he has an affair with Maria; that should be enough, but oddly it isn't for most people. Henry does not have true love for Fanny and I find it easy to conjecture what their life would be like had she accepted him. He would have continued to flirt with other women- even Mary says that he would. But she says he wouldn't love anyone else. That is because I feel he cannot really love anyone but himself and although he seems to wholeheartedly woo Fanny he is just playing and acting as she says. Their marriage would have been very sad.
If anyone disagrees please post. I love hearing the reasons honestly.

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I just finished reading the book last night, and I too was surprised at how people think Henry should've married Fanny! I think that when Henry got William a promotion, that was a very mean thing to do; not mean to William, but mean to Fanny. He was trying to make Fanny marry him out of gratitude; in "Pride and Prejudice", this is exactly what Mr. Darcy doesn't want, and so Darcy doesn't want Elizabeth to know how he salvaged Lydia's reputation. And really, who doesn't like Mr. Darcy? Back to the point--I wanted to sock Mr. Crawford when he did that; it was selfish and with the motive for gaining Fanny's affection.

I suppose you have to admire in Mr. Crawford that he tried to change who he was in order to please Fanny; but even if he would have succeeded in having Fanny marry him, I think his true character would shine through eventually--just as it did in the book. He tried to make himself into something he wasn't; and I think that he ultimately would have regretted it even if he had "gotten" Fanny.

I also think that a marriage between Mary and Edmund would have been disastrous. It is clear that once Edmund's eyes were opened to Mary's actual character, he was really decided against marrying her; and undoubtedly if he would have married her, he couldn't have lived his entire life believing she was this angel descended from the heavens. It wouldn't have suited Mary, either, who we know didn't like clergymen in general, and who probaby would have gotten annoyed with Edmund's strict principles. I can see them quarelling a lot as a married couple.

So I definitely believe Edmund and Fanny were best suited for each other. Mr. Crawford was a cad, and Mary was too selfish.

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I choose Henry, not because of the book and the story, simply because Henry in the movie was so charming and way hotter than Edmund. I am very shallow so there it goes. I understand that in the book he is a complete cad, but I just can't help liking him in the movie and getting disappointed that he was turned down. I blame it on the director, plus he made up all those sexual stuff with the slaves which is totally uncalled for and improper for JA adaptations.

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oh my gosh same here. while watching this movie i was like "oh pick henry pick henry!" he was so sincere about loving her that who couldnt want her to pick him. when she turned him down i was about to start crying. it was just so sad!

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Goodness. Showing the horror of slavery was massively important in the movie. Their whole world of silly idleness relied on the funds from it.
It showed there is an outside world from their manor.
As Fanny said. "Life seems nothing more than a quick succession of busy nothings."

The abolitionist movement was very important during Jane Austin's time. I think this book portrays that no matter the temporary facade, good character is of utmost importance for Fanny to have a happy life.

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Yes, there's a part of me that would have preferred Fanny to pick Henry. I have read the original by Austen (all of the original novels, over and over again), but any movie based on a novel is an adaptation and interpretation of an original work. Most adaptations of Austen novels are done by people who really love the works and it's interesting to see their ideas. And for this vision of the story, Henry was far more sympathetic and Edmund, although attractive, was desperately (and blindly) in love with someone else and most importantly to me, was Fanny's first cousin. In the culture I grew up in, it was ingrained in us to think of that as unacceptable so a more attractive Henry made it easier to see a Henry/Fanny marriage as a possibility. (But while reading the book, I didn't feel that way and was thrilled when Fanny and Edmund got together.)

In terms of any of the movies, I'd think Jane Austen would have been gagging over all of them. She wasn't very romantic; she was witty, insightful and brilliant and the movies are generally quite romantic because of the subject matter. (If you think she really was overly romantic, just look at the end of Sense and Sensibility where she says in effect "I won't bother with all the romantic language of the proposal, you the reader know what's generally said".)

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Henry was a prick and just wanted to score points yet still come out righteous in the eyes of society.

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I would prefer Fanny pick Henry, from the book I believe Henry is truly love Fanny and really want to change, but the ending is quite disappointing for me. It seems like Edmund never love her until the very end only realised that he love her. Sigh !

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Why is it that people are so into Mr Darcy, who was a total a-hole until the final moments.... But Fanny (who is absolutely a shy introvert) should marry a man she doesn't trust, over her lifelong friend who understands her? Ridiculous. This is Fanny, not Elizabeth.

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...he wants to flirt with her just to make her love him...


My opinion is that Henry is attracted to Fanny because he thinks she is more virtuous than most women. He is a very attractive man who can pick and choose from many women and he chooses Fanny because he thinks she's special, above the cut.

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I found myself being sympathetic to him in the movie. The actor who plays him makes him likable and shows that he does love Fanny. In his own way.

His joy at her accepting his proposal is delightful :).




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Yeah I have to say, i understand in the book (which i havent read yet) Henry is a total cad and its obvious Fanny should be with Edmund. But in the movie, i really couldn't help but feel disappointed when Fanny turned down Henry. How adorable was that scene when she finally says yes to him when they're walking along the wall (and the next scene after with the 'surprise' dancing). Alessandro Nivola played an extremely charming Henry. I actually could believe he loved Fanny in some way. Edmund, while cute too, was the 'boy next-door' type and not as dashing as Henry.
For those who've read the book, i'm wondering.. was Henry supposed to be much more attractive than Edmund?

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I love that scene. Henry glows in that scene.

Nivola is maybe too good in the role- he conveys that Henry is a cad but, in his own way, does love Fanny.

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Both men are handsome, but Henry's more lively, witty and superficially charming than Edmund. On the other hand, Edmund is a nicer person and Henry's an insincere, vain and selfish swine.

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Jane Austen herself had a far more complicated and dimensional shading of both Crawfords, and, for the sake of justice, here are some excerpts of Henry's plan to propose to Fanny, and some of his reasons, as he explains them to his enthusiastic sister, from The Source Itself (http://www.austen.com/mans/vol2ch12.htm):

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"Yes, Mary," said he, drawing her arm within his, and walking along the sweep as if not knowing where he was—"I could not get away sooner—Fanny looked so lovely!—I am quite determined, Mary. My mind is entirely made up. Will it astonish you? No—You must be aware that I am quite determined to marry Fanny Price."

The surprize was now complete; for in spite of whatever his consciousness might suggest, a suspicion of his having any such views had never entered his sister's imagination; and she looked so truly the astonishment she felt, that he was obliged to repeat what he had said, and more fully and more solemnly. The conviction of his determination once admitted, it was not unwelcome. There was even pleasure with the surprize. Mary was in a state of mind to rejoice in a connection with the Bertram family, and to be not displeased with her brother's marrying a little beneath him.

"Yes, Mary," was Henry's concluding assurance, "I am fairly caught. You know with what idle designs I began—but this is the end of them. I have (I flatter myself) made no inconsiderable progress in her affections; but my own are entirely fixed."

"Lucky, lucky girl!" cried Mary as soon as she could speak—"what a match for her! My dearest Henry, this must be my first feeling; but my second, which you shall have as sincerely, is that I approve your choice from my soul, and foresee your happiness as heartily as I wish and desire it. You will have a sweet little wife; all gratitude and devotion. Exactly what you deserve. What an amazing match for her! Mrs. Norris often talks of her luck; what will she say now? The delight of all the family indeed! And she has some true friends in it. How they will rejoice! But tell me all about it. Talk to me for ever. When did you begin to think seriously about her?"

Nothing could be more impossible than to answer such a question, though nothing could be more agreeable than to have it asked. "How the pleasing plague had stolen on him" he could not say, and before he had expressed the same sentiment with a little variation of words three times over, his sister eagerly interrupted him with, "Ah! my dear Henry, and this is what took you to London! This was your business! You chose to consult the Admiral, before you made up your mind."

But this he stoutly denied. He knew his uncle too well to consult him on any matrimonial scheme. The Admiral hated marriage, and thought it never pardonable in a young man of independent fortune.

"When Fanny is known to him," continued Henry, "he will doat on her. She is exactly the woman to do away every prejudice of such a man as the Admiral, for she is exactly such a woman as he thinks does not exist in the world. She is the very impossibility he would describe—if indeed he has now delicacy of language enough to embody his own ideas. But till it is absolutely settled—settled beyond all interference, he shall know nothing of the matter. No, Mary, you are quite mistaken. You have not discovered my business yet!"
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As soon as her eagerness could rest in silence, he was as happy to tell as she could be to listen, and a conversation followed almost as deeply interesting to her as to himself, though he had in fact nothing to relate but his own sensations, nothing to dwell on but Fanny's charms.—Fanny's beauty of face and figure, Fanny's graces of manner and goodness of heart were the exhaustless theme. The gentleness, modesty, and sweetness of her character were warmly expatiated on, that sweetness which makes so essential a part of every woman's worth in the judgment of man, that though he sometimes loves where it is not, he can never believe it absent. Her temper he had good reason to depend on and to praise. He had often seen it tried. Was there one of the family, excepting Edmund, who had not in some way or other continually exercised her patience and forbearance? Her affections were evidently strong. To see her with her brother! What could more delightfully prove that the warmth of her heart was equal to its gentleness?—What could be more encouraging to a man who had her love in view? Then, her understanding was beyond every suspicion, quick and clear; and her manners were the mirror of her own modest and elegant mind. Nor was this all. Henry Crawford had too much sense not to feel the worth of good principles in a wife, though he was too little accustomed to serious reflection to know them by their proper name; but when he talked of her having such a steadiness and regularity of conduct, such a high notion of honour, and such an observance of decorum as might warrant any man in the fullest dependence on her faith and integrity, he expressed what was inspired by the knowledge of her being well principled and religious.

"I could so wholly and absolutely confide in her," said he; "and that is what I want."

Well might his sister, believing as she really did that his opinion of Fanny Price was scarcely beyond her merits, rejoice in her prospects.

"The more I think of it," she cried, "the more am I convinced that you are doing quite right, and though I should never have selected Fanny Price as the girl most likely to attach you, I am now persuaded she is the very one to make you happy. Your wicked project upon her peace turns out a clever thought indeed. You will both find your good in it."

"It was bad, very bad in me against such a creature! but I did not know her then. And she shall have no reason to lament the hour that first put it into my head. I will make her very happy, Mary, happier than she has ever yet been herself, or ever seen any body else. I will not take her from Northamptonshire. I shall let Everingham, and rent a place in this neighbourhood—perhaps Stanwix Lodge. I shall let a seven years' lease of Everingham. I am sure of an excellent tenant at half a word. I could name three people now, who would give me my own terms and thank me."

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"Had you seen her this morning, Mary," he continued, "attending with such ineffable sweetness and patience, to all the demands of her aunt's stupidity, working with her, and for her, her colour beautifully heightened as she leant over the work, then returning to her seat to finish a note which she was previously engaged in writing for that stupid woman's service, and all this with such unpretending gentleness, so much as if it were a matter of course that she was not to have a moment at her own command, her hair arranged as neatly as it always is, and one little curl falling forward as she wrote, which she now and then shook back, and in the midst of all this, still speaking at intervals to me, or listening, and as if she liked to listen to what I said. Had you seen her so, Mary, you would not have implied the possibility of her power over my heart ever ceasing."

"My dearest Henry," cried Mary, stopping short, and smiling in his face, "how glad I am to see you so much in love! It quite delights me. But what will Mrs. Rushworth and Julia say?"

"I care neither what they say, nor what they feel. They will now see what sort of woman it is that can attach me, that can attach a man of sense. I wish the discovery may do them any good. And they will now see their cousin treated as she ought to be, and I wish they may be heartily ashamed of their own abominable neglect and unkindness. They will be angry," he added, after a moment's silence, and in a cooler tone, "Mrs. Rushworth will be very angry. It will be a bitter pill to her; that is, like other bitter pills, it will have two moments ill-flavour, and then be swallowed and forgotten; for I am not such a coxcomb as to suppose her feelings more lasting than other women's, though I was the object of them. Yes, Mary, my Fanny will feel a difference indeed, a daily, hourly difference, in the behaviour of every being who approaches her; and it will be the completion of my happiness to know that I am the doer of it, that I am the person to give the consequence so justly her due. Now she is dependent, helpless, friendless, neglected, forgotten."

"Nay, Henry, not by all, not forgotten by all, not friendless or forgotten. Her cousin Edmund never forgets her."

"Edmund—True, I believe he is (generally speaking) kind to her; and so is Sir Thomas in his way, but it is the way of a rich, superior, long-worded, arbitrary uncle. What can Sir Thomas and Edmund together do, what do they do for her happiness, comfort, honour, and dignity in the world to what I shall do?"
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In the novel, there is definite growth and deepening in both Crawford siblings; in addition, JA gives us their background early on in the novel, and we discover that their childhood and upbringing hasn't been that much more comfortable than Fanny's, and that it's left them both cynical and lonely, dependent on each other. Mary's attachment to Edmund is real and true, though she doesn't know how to take it or handle it; she understands and sympathizes with Fanny's position at Mansfield Park, and looks on Fanny as a confidante. In fact, in the novel, it's fairly clear that Fanny and Mary are opposing sides of a coin, and not necessarily in a negative way. Mary is also a sort of darker, less fortunate variation on Lizzie Bennet (and even has her coloring and physicality, which is also Jane Austen's). The Rozema movie doesn't capitalize on this interesting and complicated relationship -- in fact, it sort of can't because it makes Fanny more like Austen and the novel's Mary Crawford, and therefore has to diminish its own Mary. Because Mary is cheapened, the movie's Henry is also simplified and cheapened. This is too bad because there's a beautiful tension of like/dislike/trust/suspicion/grudging sympathy/impulsive affection in the novel which could have been nicely played with in the movie.

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Oh I hated Edmund in the book, he was a complete prick and always trying to make Fanny do things she didn't want to do. She would have done better to be with the man who openly has faults and honestly adores her than the man who thinks he's perfect when he's really a total prig and who just likes her.

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If we're talking about the Fanny of the novel, then I would have to disagree. I think the Fanny of the book would be mortified by Henry Crawford's extra-marital flirtations. Remember what Mary says: "It would have all ended in a regular standing flirtation, in yearly meetings at Sotherton and Everingham" (ch. 47). I'm convinced that Fanny would have found this unbearable; it would have caused her great mortification and pain. I couldn't want that for her.

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Well,said! Fanny and Henry are not well-suited at all. And I wouldn’t wish a husband like Henry on anyone. They guy is a rake who will disregard his vows (and those of his partner) and take what he wants. He’ll quickly dispose of his plaything after having his fun, like he did with Maria.

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He doesn't "honestly adore her." He only goes after her because he's bored. He is almost as much of a narcissist as any of Austen's other villains -- he doesn't deserve Fanny.

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i totally wanted her to pick Henry!

because - as all the heroines have a transformation of character so do most of the male love interets. Henry is a character with many faults - he doesn't deny this- but he tries to reform! don't forget that Fanny had repeatedly turned him down when he did hav the affair with Maria, they weren't actualy together or in a relationship as people would be today. Hes no worse than many players out there.

yes the cousin thing is a bit gross - as would in a modern context a step brother and sister growing up together and then getting it on. but Edmund doesn't love Fanny! He's completely besotted with Mary, and only settles for Fanny when things go sour with Mary. And even Fannys love is purely based on him being the only nice person to her whilst she grew up - and (i know its a romance novel so this would make them all seem false) but you cant really be inlove with someone until your actually with them and know them romantically.

Just because henrys not a perfect gentleman doesnt mean he doesnt love too :(

my least favourite book by the way - Fanny was beyond meak and lame.

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Perhaps it's because Alessandro Nivola is way hotter than Johnny Lee Miller.
But that's sometimes the problem with watching the movies. A lot of casting mistakes and in the books you can imagine all the right people in your mind.
At the same time this book/movie is one of my least favorites of Jane's because I probably would take a guy who was willing to become a better man for me, over one that was completely infatuated with someone with such bad qualities. Being so blinded makes me think a lot less of him.


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I think in these circumstances, the newcomers to the estate were shiny new toys.
Mary could be what she wanted to appear to be, because it was a short amount of time to pretend not to be calculating. Same with her brother - he could play that he's not a cad. And any other person could have ended up with either of them and been reasonably happy - but Fanny and Edward weren't like that. Fanny saw tight through it, and once the sheen had worn off the new toy, he saw through Mary. Then his eyes were opened to Fanny because someone else saw her that way.

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Edmond. Sorry :)

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