Okay, WHAT?
1)
the portrayal of Middle-Eastern people as a group of violent terrorists
Have you been living under a rock these past 75 years?
No, actually. Because the phrase "Middle-Eastern people" refers to the mass population of the Middle East. People who live the Middle East; Middle Eastern people. Yes, a select number of individuals from this population have committed horrible and violent crimes against other humans. A select number of individuals from the United States--and the UK, and Sweden, and China, and South Africa, and pretty much everywhere on the globe--have done so as well. They have the same psychos and criminals as we do, only born in a different country and taught to hate different things. What right do you have to single them out?
2)
But in the real world, this is undeniably racist. It's propaganda; it states that all Arabs--men, women, and children--are terrorists
Is it? Where does it say that?
It says that when it depicts a crowd of Arab men, women, and children firing guns at American soldiers like a bunch of--I don't know--terrorists. How many six-year-olds do you know of who like to shoot people and kill in cold blood? And don't throw the whole "they're taught to kill at age 3" thing at me, because it is not Islamic, or Arab, or ANYONE'S custom to teach a little kid to shoot and kill. It's an extremist thing for guerillas, and your prejudice shows through when you hold victims of abuse up like that as a generality for all Middle Eastern kids.
3)
a Aryan soldier is arrested for killing an innocent Jewish family. When his case is investigated, it turns out that the family had cheated him and his wife and children of all their money, and were planning to poison them to stop the good Aryans from exposing them.
Hitler would undoubtable have done so. However, your comparing Americans to Nazis is a particularly disgusting (and racist) peice of Godwinning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
And rather brazen, given that Arabs/Muslims sided with Nazis during WW-II and actively participated in the holocaust through the Muslim division of the Waffen SS under the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/mufti.html
First of all, I'm glad you feel happy and superior about your whole Godwin thing, because you are a cool internet hax0r. I can phrase it in Tutsi/Hutu situations if you want, or Stalin, or any other situation where one group uses racism, hatred, and blatant propaganda to influence others to hate another group. Hitler is simply the most widely recognized; history's long, there are plenty of others.
Second, how ridiculous can you get? "You can't use a holocaust reference against anti-Middle Eastern propaganda, because the Muslims and Arabs helped Hitler!"
Okay, sure. So if someone starts massacring Germans, we can't say "genocide" because of the Holocaust, which happened years and years before most of the population was born. The white great-great-great granddaughter of a slave owner is sold into slavery in modern times: can't say "slavery" though, because her ancestor owned slaves. Woops, didn't know.
Propaganda is propaganda, and racism is racism. The people being harmed by it today are just as valuable as the people harmed in the Holocaust by propaganda and racism. Prove that I'm wrong, why don't you.
4)
the deaths of Iraqi civilians are no less valuable than American civilians
Fair enough. This movie isn't about Iraq. It's about Yemen.
And if you bother to put what I said in context, instead of snatching phrases out like a two-faced idiot politician, you'll note that I said that in a discussion about 9/11 and its affects on the world today. I was talking about the current war in Iraq, where the civilians happen to be Iraqi. But sure, if it makes you feel better: the deaths of Iraqi, American, AND YEMENI civilians are all equal in horror, grief, and needlessness.
5)
Overall, my point is this: when people hold up racist portrayals of people, let's at least have the decency to admit the racism and try to heal the hurt it's caused.
You mean like Arab society, the most virulently and institutionally racist in the world? Where Iranians are regarded on par with flies and monkeys? Where hatred for Jews is indoctrinated into 3 year olds? Where the protocols of the learned elders of zion are sold in every streetcorner? Where Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants are forced into labor camps and subjected to degrading and dehumanizing conditions? Where racial nationalism and Arabocentrist supremacism leads the Arab Janjaweed to conduct genocide of 250,000 blacks in Sudan?
I don;t see any Arabs admitting to this. Compared to all that, this film is nothing. Forgive me if I don't weep over you.
Arab society, the most racist society in the world. Okay, then...what about India, where Untouchables are treated WORSE than flies or monkeys? How about America, where kids were and are still taught to hate ANYONE of a non-Caucasian race and a non-Christian religion? Where there are TV shows and organizations and huge groups of people who use phrases like "God Hates Fags" and move away when black families move into theri neighborhoods? Where people sell pamphlets about burning in hell and striking down those who deny Christ? Where you can't get a job or a house if you happen to be the wrong race in the wrong place? Where street crime and hate crimes, much of it race and religion related, is higher than thousands of other countries?
The Middle East is not perfect, and there are many horrible parts of it. BUT THE SAME GOES FOR AMERICA. America is not perfect; in fact, it's notorious for bragging about tolerance and freedom when millions are denied both every day. And I'm sure you don't see any Arabs weeping, because if you did you might have to admit your own twisted racism and fake patriotism.
In other words, stop kvetching, stop blowing people up, and stop teaching your children to hate minorities. Then talk.
I'm sort of confused: of the two of us, you are the only one who seems to be on a hating-minorities and blowing-people-up tangent. And I won't stop kvetching, thanks; it's the only way to get people to listen to you in the country, apparently.
Pretend to give a damn about anyone other than yourself and your prejudices and superiority. Then talk.
People ask us if we love each other as much as it looks like we do, and we do.
--Adam Pascal
reply
share
16 years ago
[deleted]
GottaLoveJLarson
16 years ago
You really just don't get it, do you?
First of all, I started this thread ABOUT A MOVIE. A movie that has racism themes and portrayals. Maybe you can throw out enough statistics and facts to prove that the racism is "justified" or something, but that doesn't make it not racist. And one of racism's worst qualities is that it lumps all the people it's directed against together. One statement cannot stand for millions. It's impossible.
Second of all, you're pulling the oldest computer Nazi trick of all time: wait until someone makes an assumption based on what you've written, then pop up with "U PIG I AM NOT THAT I AM SUMTHIN ELSE SHUTT UP!!!!1!!"
Okay then, you're not American. My apologies. If you've suffered badly at the hands of Arabs or someone related, I'm sorry, and I can understand how this might upset you. But my perspective is different from yours. If a black teenager killed a member of my family or kept threatening to kill me, I'd hate him. But no matter what I hate, that doesn't mean every single member of a race or culture deserves to be shot down.
I'm not going to pretend to see your side of it, because I don't know anything about you and I can't see what you see. My OP was just what I saw. And you don't know anything about me, so maybe accepting that will help you understand why I said it.
People ask us if we love each other as much as it looks like we do, and we do.
--Adam Pascal
reply
share
16 years ago
[deleted]
GottaLoveJLarson
16 years ago
Yes. Sure. Totally. And hating things stubbornly without bothering to listen to anyone else is the right thing to do. The world has turned out so well when people take that route. I hope it makes you happy.
People ask us if we love each other as much as it looks like we do, and we do.
--Adam Pascal
reply
share
16 years ago
[deleted]
Gunfighter99
16 years ago
I think daneel-11 won that one hands down.
"Remember the first rule of gunfighting...have a gun."
Jeff Cooper
reply
share
emailtom
15 years ago
What an ignorant ranting. It goes on and on and makes absolutely NO sense.
reply
share
kausix777
14 years ago
Yes, a select number of individuals from this population have committed horrible and violent crimes against other humans. A select number of individuals from the United States--and the UK, and Sweden, and China, and South Africa, and pretty much everywhere on the globe--have done so as well.
And many others have celebrated it. Very few have condemned it as they have condemned the reactions to 9/11. People from Sweden and the UK and the US have not celebrated the collateral damage in the middle east.
It says that when it depicts a crowd of Arab men, women, and children firing guns at American soldiers like a bunch of--I don't know--terrorists. How many six-year-olds do you know of who like to shoot people and kill in cold blood? And don't throw the whole "they're taught to kill at age 3" thing at me, because it is not Islamic, or Arab, or ANYONE'S custom to teach a little kid to shoot and kill. It's an extremist thing for guerillas, and your prejudice shows through when you hold victims of abuse up like that as a generality for all Middle Eastern kids.
How many movies show this kind of thing? A SELECT FEW - in your own words. So, why are you also generalising? Yes, they are victims of abuse. Probably, so was OBL.
First of all, I'm glad you feel happy and superior about your whole Godwin thing, because you are a cool internet hax0r. I can phrase it in Tutsi/Hutu situations if you want, or Stalin, or any other situation where one group uses racism, hatred, and blatant propaganda to influence others to hate another group. Hitler is simply the most widely recognized; history's long, there are plenty of others.
Agreed on this but the scales are vastly different, so the comparison may not be fair.
Okay, sure. So if someone starts massacring Germans, we can't say "genocide" because of the Holocaust, which happened years and years before most of the population was born. The white great-great-great granddaughter of a slave owner is sold into slavery in modern times: can't say "slavery" though, because her ancestor owned slaves. Woops, didn't know.
Agreed.
Propaganda is propaganda, and racism is racism. The people being harmed by it today are just as valuable as the people harmed in the Holocaust by propaganda and racism. Prove that I'm wrong, why don't you.
Disagreed. Humans are one race although the word racism is used quite freely nowadays. Besides, this movie is a story and not propaganda. Nazis killed unarmed Jews, unlike the story in this movie. Nazis tried to exterminate jews for a feeling of superiority and hatred. The actions taken by the army in this film were protective in nature against an armed attack.
And if you bother to put what I said in context, instead of snatching phrases out like a two-faced idiot politician, you'll note that I said that in a discussion about 9/11 and its affects on the world today. I was talking about the current war in Iraq, where the civilians happen to be Iraqi. But sure, if it makes you feel better: the deaths of Iraqi, American, AND YEMENI civilians are all equal in horror, grief, and needlessness.
Well put and agreed, except that you are talking about civilians which is out of context once you saw the complete movie.
Arab society, the most racist society in the world. Okay, then...what about India, where Untouchables are treated WORSE than flies or monkeys? How about America, where kids were and are still taught to hate ANYONE of a non-Caucasian race and a non-Christian religion? Where there are TV shows and organizations and huge groups of people who use phrases like "God Hates Fags" and move away when black families move into their neighborhoods? Where people sell pamphlets about burning in hell and striking down those who deny Christ? Where you can't get a job or a house if you happen to be the wrong race in the wrong place? Where street crime and hate crimes, much of it race and religion related, is higher than thousands of other countries?
The Middle East is not perfect, and there are many horrible parts of it. BUT THE SAME GOES FOR AMERICA. America is not perfect; in fact, it's notorious for bragging about tolerance and freedom when millions are denied both every day. And I'm sure you don't see any Arabs weeping, because if you did you might have to admit your own twisted racism and fake patriotism.
Partly agreed. But a war situation is still a war situation.
And please visit India. At least in the towns and cities, you will find it hard to identify an "untouchable". I know many Indians living in the US. They feel safer there than in India, so I'm not sure where you get your statistics from. There are the double standards, yes, but frankly, in Yemen, that trial would NOT have happened. They would have protected their Childers, guilty or not.
reply
share