MovieChat Forums > Fucking Åmål (1998) Discussion > Elins reason for the relationship

Elins reason for the relationship

posted 18 years ago by pandaminator
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I doubt that Elin really loved Agnes. It was more like a rebellion - to be unique in this little village. To get out. Everyone here makes it out to be some great love, but I doubt it.

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[–] blairgrimaldi 18 years ago

You raise a valid point, and one that I'd pondered a bit myself. Elin was clearly "unstable" in the sense that she was always looking for new kicks - talking about wanting to mug a pensioner, wanting to go to a rave, getting drunk, etc etc, anything to relieve the boredom of small-town life. Agnes and Elin didn't even spend that much time together anyway, and they barely knew each other. I used to think that being with Agnes was just another one of her kicks, trying something on to see if it fit. BUT... if you take into consideration the fact that she lost her virginity to Jonas, a guy she didn't even like, after her encounter with Agnes, you can see it in a different light. Elin was trying to prove to herself that she wasn't attracted to Agnes, yet it was clear that she thought about her a lot. The way she tried to ignore Agnes at school proved that she KNEW where her real feelings lay, and was trying to suppress them. Before the "coming out" scene you can tell that even after her confession to Agnes that she loved her, she was still reticent about it. But notice the way her face changes when she finally opens the door to face her friends. That satisfied smirk says it all. She was fully aware of who she was at that moment, and she didn't care who knew. The chocolate milk scene at the end was icing on the cake, a kind of "happily ever after" thing, at least that's the way I saw it. Elin was finally comfortable in her own skin, and for the first time in the film seemed genuinely happy.

I am morphine for a wooden leg

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[–] special_agentg 18 years ago

Well said Daisy. I can see why someone would argue that this is just one of those flighty things Elin is doing and it won't last. But to add to Daisy's points, I want to add that Elin never hesitated to say, I want to be a lesbian! When she blurted those words out, it was just Elin getting her kicks kind of like saying she wanted to mug a pensioner. BUT in that bathroom with Elin, everyone was yelling "come out" and she was so scared and hesitant. That meant to me that Elin was serious about her new found sexual identity - it wasn't a flighty thing for her anymore.. it was the real deal.

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[–] pandaminator 18 years ago

"She was fully aware of who she was at that moment, and she didn't care who knew. The chocolate milk scene at the end was icing on the cake, a kind of "happily ever after" thing, at least that's the way I saw it. Elin was finally comfortable in her own skin, and for the first time in the film seemed genuinely happy."

She was afraid that it might damage her, but she also knew that now she would be "special". Not just a pretty smalltown girl.

Nobody in this world feels whole and complete. We all sense some gap
in our character, something we need or want but cannot get on our
own. When we fall in love, it is often with someone who seems to fill that
gap. The process is usually unconscious and depends on luck. Agnes fills Elins gap, so there's no reason to say it can't be love, just not love for conventional reasons, yet it can be equally strong.

But I still have my doubts.

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[–] JohanHult666 18 years ago

Don't forget that dream segment in the middle of the movie. The longing of Elin towards Agnes is fully established from that point on

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[–] lamont-hard 11 years ago

They are kids so in a coup;e of months she could be anywhere with liking anyone. Man or woman.

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[–] johnhelv 11 years ago

Elin could potentially be bisexual. It is very clear that Agnes is gay but Elin is more ambiguous. If we met Agnes at 20 and in college there is no doubt that she would either have a GF or trying to find a GF, Elin could be with either sex IMO.

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[–] kant1781 18 years ago

You give a perfect argument daisy. I once took it on me to answer the "Is Elin only looking for a new kind of kick?"-question once and for all. I needed considerably more words than you however... the result can be found here, if anybody's interested:
http://freenet-homepage.de/what-its-all-about/
(Check Section 5 especially).

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[–] blairgrimaldi 18 years ago

Thanks kant (and special agentg above).

I was going to link to that "What it's all about" site - I've had it on my del.icio.us page ever since I first found it - but I wasn't sure if linking was allowed on the board. I don't post much here and hadn't noticed any linking anywhere - usually just people suggesting that readers google for info. I'm glad you included it. I think it's a fantastic breakdown of the movie.

I am morphine for a wooden leg

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[–] Dambala 18 years ago

When Elin first seeked to become Agnes friend. I think all she was look for was indeed a change from the boring town, but as the movie ends she seemed to have realize that she love Agnes (as much as kids their age can love). Of course they can break up in 2 weeks or spend years together before their relationship fall apart. But what is certain at the end of the movie is that she does consider Agnes her girlfriend now, not just a fad of the moment.

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[–] Agnelin 18 years ago

The film leaves the door open for interpretation, but, the way I see it, the movie is all about how Elin changes by way of her new found love for Agnes and, also, by the fact that she is in love with another girl. Throughout the movie, we follow her in her cruel joke to Agnes, her regret, and then her (in my opinion) honest attraction and love for her. I think if she didn't really feel love, she wouldn't have bothered to keep a kind of relationship or contact with her. She would have stayed in her comfortable life as the most popular girl at school. If she wanted to come out as the "rebel", then maybe she would have showed her new lesbian fling off, then dumped her. I think the final scene settles it and suggests they're in for a perfectly normal relationship just like any other couple, with their fun, exciting and boring moments together.

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[–] zamberlan 18 years ago

I saw Elin as a lost soul. Desperate for some mothering, an anchor, a reason. In Agnes she finally found something real. It was *not* about love or sex or lesbianism. It was about a little girl craving sweet chocolate milk and some normalcy to her out of control and morally bankrupt life.

It was like the rebellion that wasn't.

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[–] cine40 18 years ago

Hi Zam!

… It was *not* about love or sex or lesbianism. It was about a little girl craving sweet chocolate milk and some normalcy to her out of control and morally bankrupt life.

Well, I’m not so sure as you are.

As you know I’m a bit out of my elements here, but please bear with me again. I’m not really *that* far out! My closest friends (and lovers of course) were all women; old and young, “straight” and “gay”. Over the decades they all taught me valuable things about love. Things about *real* love. About love sailing against the wind. Among many other things I learned:

That “love” to a woman is far more complex and ambiguous than to us men.

That “friendship” to a woman is far more complex and ambiguous than to us men.

That the “borders” between love, sex, friendship and physical contact to a woman are far more complex and ambiguous than to us men.

That physical contact between us males means only one of three things: fist fighting, sleazy binging at the pub or homosexuality. Yes, yes, in some cultures there *are* greeting gestures involving physical contact, but it’s strictly formalized and very simple.

That physical contact between females means *anything* between an ephemeral friendly touch between total strangers (!) and deep and hot sexual commitment. And it’s all extremely complex and ambiguous.

***************

For obvious reasons I haven’t watched FÅ with subtitles. So I don’t know if you know what Elin really says when coming out of the toilet with Agnes in tow at the end of the drama. What Elin really says is this: “Kan ni släppa fram oss! Detta är min tjej och nu ska vi gå hem och knulla!” It’s not verbatim (I don’t have the film in my library right now), but essentially she says:” Could you please let us through here. This is my girlfriend, and now we are going home and we’ll “beep”. (“Knulla” in Swedish = have sex. The word is somewhat vulgar, but is accepted in mass media.)

So in Swedish Elin actually says that they *are* going to have sex. But we (thankfully) never *see* this. We’ll never know, but Elin’s wonderfully expressed nervousness; sitting on the bed with Agnes, rambling about her zany way of preparing the chocolate milk, certainly makes it believable. But I don’t think it really matters. Their devotion to each other is good enough! Close friends or lovers, or both – who can tell?

And am I really the *only* one here to smile from ear to ear at the warm and witty joke: two girls who just found out that *girls* are better lovers than *boys*, rambling hysterically about mistreating chocolate milk powder with the brand name “O’boy”!? Come on, it’s not *that* deep!! (Or does it not come through in the English version?)

cine

"Why is it that men are so much more interested in women than women in men?"
Virginia Woolf

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[–] zamberlan 18 years ago

The translation came through just fine. But it was like the title, more of a *beep* off and leave us alone" than a statement of fact. It was Elins "in your face", hostile and rebellious nature talking. A trapped cat spitting and hissing and a final display of bravado as she walks away.

Had they been rushing home to have sex she would have been flooded with good endorphins, easy going, flushed, shy, quiet.

I missed the milk carton thing. Elin was not a lesbian. They might have kissed or something out of curiousity but it would have ended there. Or it should have ended there. Thank God as you said; It did end there!

I always get so emotionally involved in the lives of these film characters. Hopefully Agnes goes on to find a real little girl lesbian and is not too heart broken from this experience with depraved and attention starved Agnes.

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[–] cine40 18 years ago

Hi Zam!

Had they been rushing home to have sex she would have been flooded with good endorphins, easy going, flushed, shy, quiet.

I take that at face value, since you – not me – is the expert here. But when it comes to the nervousness one can feel before a first time sexual encounter, I think we share pretty much the same experience, despite being of different gender.

I read the films ending as the girls *intention* was to have sex. And either they did, or they, for unknown reasons, did not. I think Moodyson’s open end is both tasteful and brilliant (it had been *so* easy to take the wrong step here).

The main reason for my take of it is Elin’s hysterical speed talking, clearly signaling nervousness and high tension. (Elin’s earlier explicit declaration, doesn’t really count, as that could easily have been just another rebellious act).

And when I say speed talk I really mean it – and the torrent of words is a totally nonsensical rambling about her always using “zillions” of times tooooo much O’boy powder, when making milk chocolate. To me she is clearly trying to speed talk away her nervousness and insecurity. And why should she have to do that if not sex with Agnes was on her mind?

On the other hand; I don’t really care very much whether they had sex or not. The shot near the end when they walk away hand in hand is the *important* and “feel good” part of it all for me.

But, like I said; it’s an open end. Various interpretations are possible – the hallmark of a good piece of cinematic art.

cine

"Why is it that men are so much more interested in women than women in men?"
Virginia Woolf

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[–] lola-lola 18 years ago

This is an interesting point that's worth looking into.
I partly agree with the original poster here; Elin is a superficial, vain, fickle teenager extremely bored with life and desperate to prove to herself and to others that she is rebellious, 'different', somehow.
This explains her reason for accepting her sister's dare to kiss Agnes and her attraction to the latter who is her polar opposite: shy, quiet, studious and very mature for her age.
It is admiration, awe and mostly curiosity, rather than actual remorse I think, that drives Elin to apologize and seek the older girl's company.
However, her admiration for Agnes grows into love as the film progresses, although Elin comes to realize this only when the disabled girl tells her that Agnes is a lesbian and what's more, in love with her.
Elin is completely taken aback by this piece of news; I don't think she really thought that the rumours concerning Agnes' sexuality could be true and at the same time she is coming to terms with her own feelings.
So in the end, Elin doesn't actually plan to fall in love with Agnes, it just happens naturally.
Yes Elin probably wouldn't have grown up to be a lesbian nor would her 'relationship' with Agnes have lasted forever, but I think her feelings for her were of genuine love, no matter how
short-lived they may have been.

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[–] kant1781 18 years ago

zamberlan wrote:

It was Elins "in your face", hostile and rebellious nature talking. A trapped cat spitting and hissing and a final display of bravado as she walks away.

But no! I agree that it is probably nonsense to understand the "knulla"-part as a serious announcement on Elin's part about what exactly she is going to do next. (This would be a bit tasteless even for her.) But her situation is not that of a trapped cat, not anymore. As she steps out of the closet, as the has gone through her rite de passage, she has reached the final stage of her development. For the first time, Elin actually is the self-assured person she has always pretended to be. And this is because for the first time she has someone behind her who gives her a clear idea of who she is and what she wants. And indeed, so she says: Nobody quoted the most important sentence (as I see it) of the scene: "Ta-damm! Här är jag!", which translates as "Here I am", but really should be read as meaning: "This is me!" And what a difference it makes! Just look at how Moodysson captures Elin's triumphant smile at her former pals.

Concerning the last bit, I agree with those who don't care whether sex is in the air or not. It's not the sex that is important, it really is the chocolate milk. It makes the film come full circle, just like Elin has: It all begins with a relentless fight over chocolate milk in which nobody gets to have any, but it ends with a gentle sharing of it. Elin finally gets to have the happy sip of O’boy that she, or rather her former self, didn’t get in the beginning, just exactly in the very second when Agnes beams at her in joy and the film ends.

And cine, I bow my head: The O'"boy"-joke escaped me. Brilliant ;-)

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[–] WeezerFan66 18 years ago

From the few clips I've seen of the film (I really need to get the DVD) I get the impression that Elin really was deeply attracted to Agnes, be it love or not.

The best thing about the ending is that it is open-ended. I don't think Elin is just going to dump Agnes whenever she feels like it, but the director is also (wisely) not trying to ram a happily-ever-after story down our throats.

I don't think that Elin really is a lesbian, but she's not just experimenting either. She feels strongly for, and is possibly in love with, Agnes, and gender doesn't come into it. What this means is that their relationship could last for the rest of their lives, or could be a two week fling. Just like the rest of teenage relationships, lesbian or not.

"It's not the despair. I can stand the despair. It's the hope."

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[–] Nizzemancer-1 17 years ago

If she's in love with Agnes I'd certainly call her a lesbian...?

Light travels faster than sound,
that's why people seem bright,
until you hear them.

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[–] ljr-x25 17 years ago

She is definitely a lesbain,she showed all the classic signs of a girl confused about her sexuality-making out with so many guys but not wanting to sleep with them is a sign.She only slept with the boy because she was denying herself.And she was in love,look at the dream she had,the scene with the school pics and standing longingly outside Agnes's window.Plus how distraught she was when she thought Jessica would hate her,that is not the actions of a girl playing games.

I'm Bi so what!

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[–] kjs-2 17 years ago

The acting is so perfect in this movie that I don't think there is any doubt that Elin and Agnes are really in love and that Elin is afraid to be herself until the very end. ljr-x25 hit the nail on the head and I for one think it is great to see such a good movie with this subject matter at an appropriate age like this. Far too many films with similar subject matter take place with people in their mid 20's or 30's when it is soo much more important for young teenagers to see positive role-models for love and healthy relationships. Don't forget about Jessica and Marcus' bad relationship or Johan's love for someone who is not interested at all in him. Elin, Agnes, Johan, and Jessica are all better off at the end of the film when they have a better understanding and respect for real love.

-Karl

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[–] TheQueenisDead 17 years ago

I was just watching it now, and at the hockey practice scene, Jessica tells Elin "You always get what you want" and Elin replies "You don't even know anything about that."

In general Elin's boredom is turning into frustration, which is understandable. She's growing up and realized she didn't wanna end up like her mom or her sister, etc.

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[–] ljr-x25 17 years ago

That scene is about frustation but not because of boredom.She is upset because she hasn't got what she wants-Agnes,and she's to scared to admit it to Jessica.

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[–] perorewen 17 years ago

This film is, in every way, perfect!

I remember I saw it in the theaters when I was 16, I was more or less in the middle of it all, everything this film describes. And I've NEVER EVER seen a film that portrays teenage life so to the spot as this. It was heart-wreckingly honest about how teenagers treat eachothers, and their general behavior. And also incredibly amusing, because their general behavior is so to the point. I don't know how many kids I've known in my life that's exactly like Elin, Jessica, Johan and Marcus. I remember all those crazy parties, the insane conversations we had etc. Personally I was just like Agnes. I'm not overdoing it when I say that seing Agnes is like seing a portrayal of myself that age.

But also, I really love the way Elin is portrayed. She is bored, and frustrated, because life doesn't seem to give what she really hopes for. It is painfully apparent that she needs an extreme change, but in the beginning she's unaware of what it is. "Let's go shop-lifting" she says to her friends, because that would at least give her dull, dreary routine-life some exitement. Of course, her friends thinks she's crazy, because it wouldn't follow their codes of behavior. The same things goes for Elins confused thoughts about drugs.

As it turns out, Agnes is just the type of change Elin wants and needs. Agnes is willing and prepared to accept her excactly as she is. As a difference to Elins friends, Agnes doesn't laugh at her, neither does she find her behaviour crazy. Agnes is just in love with Elin, and that's what matters. And this is what gives Elin relief. This is exactly what Elin needs to come to terms with herself and her own needs. She realises she doesn't have to pretend anymore, she doesn't have to be cool and popular, because there is a girl who thinks she is wonderful and loves her as it is. And so, Elin realises that Agnes is just the thing she's been waiting for.

Someone mentioned the line she sais when opening the bathroom-door: Tatam! Here I am!" That line is perfect. This is me, she says. And with pride. And during the chocolate milk-scene, she's happy. Maybe for the first time in her life. But most important; she is content with life. Because what she wants in life is right there in the kitchen with her.

**********
They blew up Congress!!! HAHAHA!

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[–] sannedthomsen 14 years ago

i also thought that since Elin's sister, who spends so much time with her yet doesn't really know her (the psychologist thing), recognizes that she's in love with ~someone.. When Elin says, "you'll hate me forever," etc, she's trying to come out, but doesn't have the courage, so she tries to convince her and her sister that she's into boys..

i did think about it myself, though, that this could be just to have fun and stand out, as she does say she doesn't want to be like everyone else.
i do think she genuinely cares for Agnes, or at least considers her feelings, like when she kissed her at her birthday "party", then regrets just walking out.. ( when she insists that she must go back and apologize)

it's interesting.

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[–] vbel 14 years ago

When Elin has her head down on her desk at the beginning of the movie I suspect by her body english that she already knows who Agnes is.

When she comes out to her mom.

The "you'll hate me forever" scene.

When the phone rings and Elin is so disappointed that it's her sister and not Agnes.

I think it's apparent all along that Elin is gay. I don't know why so many on this board don't think so.

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[–] yoo 13 years ago

This is one of the things I love about this movie: I think it is quite possible that Elin will have found someone else within a year (or will have scared Agnes away with her antics); that doesn't mean she's dishonest though. She's a teenager and is expected to be fickle.

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[–] acmilan03c1 13 years ago

OK, we get it, y'all are cynical, disillusioned people who think life sucks and good things never last - you don't have to ram it down our throats! We all know it's possible things between Agnes and Elin didn't work out in the end, so what's the point of throwing it into every other sentence? It's just as likely things DID (or would have, if this were real life) work out...
I for one prefer to think they lived happily ever after and remained forever in love (or rather "remain", seen as, chronologically, they'd probably still be at it in 2011 :)). Why be a buzz-kill when you can be optimistic?!

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[–] Melitonz 12 years ago

I'm considered a total pessimist by my peers, I'm not really into this love thing, neither am I sentimental, but d@mn, this time I simply felt like I have to say their love lasted forever, or for a very long time.

This movie really had a "dream come true" vibe, and I pretty much understand that Elin was just a rebellious teen looking for so-called "attention", although I can't really correspond with these points. Just notice how different was she after she pulled Agnes to the toilet.

Fantastic movie.

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[–] looper007 (1158) 7 years ago

I do think Elin loves Agnes, I don't think it's all about rebellion or to be unique. It's the first time Elin can be her true self and not hide behind what others want from her. I don't think this relationship is built to last (but that's just my opinion) and it could have ended a few weeks, a few months or few years later after that last scene in the film but that doesn't matter. It's all about that moment.

I think their is a friendship for life between those two, they might not see each other for years and will live different lives but they will have that bond.

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