MovieChat Forums > Dune (2000) Discussion > Nearly unwatchable.

Nearly unwatchable.


Good God, where to start?

William Hurt as Duke Leto? (whining)"They have tried to take the life of my son..." Yeah, way to emote there, Billy. Hey, next time could you try to out-act the dress dummy your wardrobe is hanging on?

Oh, and while we're on the subject of Wardrobe, who in the hell decided that dressing Baron Harkonnen like Otho from Beetlejuice, but in drag, was a good idea? And then having him speak in perverse rhyme? I say: Lynch's Dune Vladimir versus this travesty. My money's on the flying heart-plug ripper!

And that pipsqueak they got to play Paul.

Ugh. Just...UGH.

As I said over on the Dune(1984) boards: FAT, BALDING FREMEN?!? Yeah, thanks for the Maula pistol and Krysknife, Stilgarowitz.

You can argue all you want about the things that Lynch got wrong, but as to look and feel, he got a hell of a lot closer than this...thing that looks like it was produced in a warehouse in Prague. Come to think of it, it WAS produced in a warehouse in Prague and it shows.

Sci-Fi had millions of dollars to blow, and they still got it WRONG.

Also: Brad Dourif absolutely ruled as Piter DeVries. There can be no other.

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I'm sorry but are we speaking on the same movie here? In Lynch's very unsuccessful attempt, the navigators looked like giant floating turds, the ships looked like cigarettes, the Baron suffers from syphilis, the guy who plays Paul was horrible, the Fremen looked like beggars, the narative internal dialogue just made me want to hurl a rock at the tv to get them to shut the hell up, and the Shadout Mapes was hilarious. Now, those of you who hated the mini, have you read the books? Because if you have then you'd see that the mini was a FAITHFUL adaptation, more faithful than the 1984 version.
Don't get me wrong, Lynch's Dune is great for jokes (some of film's most hilarious moments take place in this film, though they are obviously unintentional)but Lynch's version doesn't hold a candle to the mini, though I do like Patrick Stewart as Gurney better than PH Morriarty. Patrick Stewart was the best in this and I cry for him being cast in such a horrible film.



Read the book, watch both adaptations, and then revevaluate your opinions of which movie is unwatchable.

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Thank You, I have.

The mini is mor unwatchable than the film.

Don't get me wrong.. I preferred the story more... I just thought the acting was unconvincing , and the costumes too damn distracting.

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I read the books way before the movies and all i can say is that, both films have there weaknesses but the lynch version had more. way more. I cant believe frank was on the set when lynch was calling the shots, I bet he was like " should I say something before he *beep* up my book" I mean, he had to be there when the baron was put in costume. " what the hell is that on his face?" or" weirding modules. Am I that old that I forgot my own *beep* material in my books."

I hear that he liked what lynch was doing but he secretly didnt.



adventure is nothing but a romantic name for trouble.

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I agree with Soberwookie11, The Mini series is way better than Lynch's version. And yes Stilgar did kick Ass in the mini series!!! but the guy they got to replace him in Children of Dune is not who i would have chosen. He didn't even look like he might have been a fremen. I mean it was half way through the first episode until i realized that the actor was trying to play a fremen let alone STILGAR the FREMEN. But thats for another Board discussion.


LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS OF MUAD'DIB!!!!

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Alright, here we go...

Lynch/Smithee picture: A waste of time that tried to cram everything about Dune into a single three hours, and it ended up turning into a big mess. Arrakis is a very uncomfortable place filled with purple deserts, flying boxes, and worms that looked like giant dildos. Better casting in some places, but weak overall (which was enhanced by the script's destruction of characters, Stewart's Gurney being the best example. His strength would have come out in a stronger, more faithful adaption of the character). When I found out what the Wierding Way REALLY was, what I'd seen on screen made me want to puke. After reading the book, this movie sickened me.

John Harrison's picture: Breath-taking. I will admit that the backdrops didn't work somethings (especially at night) but there were times when they did work. I personally thought the CGI desert and the key-work with CGI desert in background looked the best, but hey, that fixed that in CoD. I will agree that the decor and fashions of the Imperium were somewhat gay, but they were trying to emphasize the extranvigance of the Imperium, and if you recall the book, they DO wear robes in the Imperium. The buretted-Sardakur did look gay in their headwear, but I think they realized that during filming, and that's why the murderer of Paul's first son loses it to become intimidating.

But that's it. The CGI was fantastic, the casting was fantastic, the portayal of the Fremen was fantastic, the Wierding Way was fantastic, and for six wonderful hours, I experience the epic and magic that is Frank Herbert's Dune, on screen.

Dune 1984 has no such magic.

I think the covers of the DVDs show it best. If I'd just read Dune, hadn't seen either movie, and were staring at the two covers, I dare anyone to tell me the cover of Lynch's Dune is more what they saw in their head than the cover of Harrison's Dune. Period.

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"pipsqueak"? In case you forgot, Paul in the novel is 15 and described as small for his age.

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The miniseries actually made me leave the room in frustration multiple times. I had to watch it on my VHS (I was taping it), in 15-25 minute segments, to keep from damaging either myself or the television.

First off - say what you will about visuals not being the most important thing, but this IS A VISUAL MEDIUM. Lynch's version may have (by today's standards) dated visual effects, but if you saw the movie when it was relatively new like I did... it was great. Kind of like how kids today say that the old Superman movies suck because they look terrible - judge it by its time. The miniseries was abominable in visual representation. Terrible costuming (I cannot begin to explain the depth of the lousiness of the costuming), abysmal backdrops (which you can actually see move, presumably when the caterer arrived on-set and opened the door), physically uninspiring actors... it's an utter failure. They fixed many of these issues in Children of Dune, but that's another matter.

Second - acting. The balance again tips to Lynch. Let's go down the list of important players here...
Paul - MacLachlan vs Newman. Ok, so MacLachlan had a tendency to look stoned and suffered from 80s helmet-hair, but at least he was capable of more than one facial expression. Newman could pull off "petulant" and that was it (by the way... Paul was never petulant). Newman's acting was much less egregious in CoDune when his face was shadowed by the hood 90% of the time. Losing the Paul role in acting is about the biggest loss possible when telling the Dune story - central role.

Leto - Prochnow vs Hurt. Hurt can act, but not physically. Evidence the scene with Yueh's betrayal. Also, he looks all kinds of wrong for the physical description. Neither actor stands out terribly much to me in either film, so I'm willing to call this a no-contest and move on with the show.

Baron Harkonnen - McMillan vs McNeice. I might actually have to give the edge to McNeice here. McMillan looks the bit much better, as the Baron is described as a disgusting man, but McNeice does a better job of showing the Baron's subtle intellect.

Jessica - Annis vs Reeves. Annis. End of story. Reeves lacked any ability to emote. Both looked the part well, but Annis just kicks Reeves' ass up and down the film.

Stilgar - McGill vs Ochsenknecht. McGill has the look going for him from minute one, and neither actor is exactly memorable enough to make much headway beyond how they look. McGill wins.

Gurney - Stewart vs Moriarty. Do you have to ask on this one? On the one hand, we have a trained Shakespearean actor who has excellently portrayed characters of just about every possible stripe, and on the other hand we have... Hatchet Harry Lonsdale. Moriarty is a pretty good actor, but he is outclassed here and we all know it. For what it's worth, he is much better in CoDune than in here.

Piter - Dourif vs Unger. I remember Brad Dourif's Piter. I always will. I can't even remember what Unger looks like or if he had an accent. Dourif demanded your attention when he was on screen; he was menacing, precise, and sleazy. Unger was just there, somewhere, I think.

Yueh - Stockwell vs Russel. Russel was sniveling, Stockwell was a man fighting not to be completely broken. Russel's Dr. Yueh had no 3rd dimension whatsoever, and loses out of hand.

Other characters such as Irulan and Mapes were also better-acted in Lynch's adaptation, though the roles are of less importance. At least, Irulan's role SHOULD be of less importance. The fact that she became a pseudo-heroine in the miniseries is anathema as far as I'm concerned.
So, Lynch's version wins on acting. No real surprise, he had a monster budget to squander.

So, Lynch wins on visuals and on actors... how about immersion? Well, that's pretty tied to visuals and acting ability, so I feel a bit bad making it a third category for Lynch's version to run away with, but it does. If nothing else, the minute I see the background flapping in the breeze in the miniseries, I cringe and have to walk away for a while.

I could keep going, but I'm going to start wrapping it up, and with the most important part - book-to-movie adaptation.

Both fail. Seriously. Lynch added in a gods-know-what-inspired sound weapons system, and the mini changes the fundamental attitude of key characters.
So which fails more?

The mini. Yes, the sound thing was bizarre. Yes, it had no basis in the books. Yes, it annoyed me too. However, it did not break the entire spirit of the book - which is what making Paul into a whiny, conceited, self-centered, childish, and flippant brat did. I'm sorry, but when you take the main character who in the book was a messianic figure from page one and make him an emo-kid, you failed. Completely and abjectly. The mini loses.

In fact, you could have taken all the strengths of the Lynch film and removed all the weaknesses (save the Paul thing) from the mini, and taken only the best aspects - but if Paul was the Paul from the mini, the movie is a failure.

Dune was about Paul Atreides. The miniseries borked the Paul character. Instant lose.

Oh, and did anyone else notice they mis-spelled "Muad'dib" in the opener of part 2 as "Maud'dib?" *Sigh*

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[deleted]

I saw the lynch movie soon after reading the book, and i was in shock. Utter shock at the complete pile of trash i was seeing. I hated it by about the 10th minute, and then forced myself to finish it, in the hope that it would get better at some point. It didn't. I mean, Sting as Feyd-Rautha? Gimme a break.

Then i saw the miniseries, and was blown away. THIS is what the movie should have been. Seriously, the miniseries is not just better than the movie, it is a great piece of filmaking. Unlike most of the people here, it seems, i very much enjoyed the costumes. The stillsuits, in particular were very well-done. And the casting, well, what can i say about the casting? With the possible exception of William Hurt as an incredibly understated Duke, every single actor does a better job in the miniseries than in the corresponding role in the movie. NcNeice as the Baron was especially memorable, as was Kodectova as Chani.

There is nothing at all worthwhile about the movie (one of the worst movies of all time in my opinion), and much that is worthwhile in the miniseries. Not even close to a debate in my mind

For he on honey dew hath fed
And drunk the milk of Paradise

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Agreed. The mini was a horrible gawd awful mess. I can understand that they had budgetary limitations. OK. No problem; there are ways around that.

I don't mind painted backdrops and indoor deserts. I'm a Doctor Who fan from waaaaay back before that show had any money; I can deal with cheesy-looking Sci-Fi.

I don't have a problem with making alterations to a story to overcome time or budgetary constraints. An epic novel will not become an epic mini series on $20 million without a little trimming first.

BUT....

What I can't abide is somebody adapting a novel into a movie without first having read the book! Don't even try to tell me the writer here actually read Dune. I assure you any similarities between the novel and this travesty was coincidental at best.

First; why the inexplicable need to turn Irulan into a character? If you ignore the chapterheads in the novel, Irulan literaly only appears on the last page of the last chapter of the book. And she has *ONE* line of dialogue! And making her a sympathetic character makes Paul's treatment of her even more callous and cruel than it was in the books. We're not supposed to like Irulan until after Paul dies, not before.

Why inflate Irulan when they feel the need to de-flate all the other supporting characters? Yueh, Thufir, Piter, Count Fenring, hell even Feyd all got shafted by this script. All of them (except Fenring) had *larger* roles in the *shorter* film! Hell, if memory serves me right, Piter is introduced and killed off in the same scene! (that, or his part so sparse, and his actor so forgettable that I can't remember him being in it more)


Which brings me to the next part: crappy acting. Oh how we have some crap-tacular displays of the thespian's trade on hand here. The word that comes to mind when describing the vast majority of these actors is: bland. All of the supporting cast, and several of the principals, are just... so... very... dull. And P.H. Moriarty needs to stop taking roles that require him to speak English, because that clearly is not his strong point. Yes, I know English is his native tongue, but you wouldn't know it by listening to him.


And whats with all the freaking guns?! Everybody is packing heat in this universe, its like an watching an NRA convention in the Sahara!

Folks the first rule of Dune, the one that makes you sit up and take notice when you first read the book is NOBODY USES GUNS!!! They have them (lasguns, maula pistols, etc) but the use of shields makes them dangerous (lasgun) or useless (most everything else). There are only TWO points in the novel when guns are used, both of which are during the Harkonen invasion. Even then, most fights are between people wielding sharp bits of metal, or pointy pieces of sandworm.

So why is everybody in this mini strapped?


Why the need to delete or shorten scenes that were important, just to put in scenes that never existed in the novel? I'm talking pretty much the *WHOLE* Harkonen invasion here... it's literally a "blink and you'll miss it" moment. Gurney kills a guy and says "Sardaukar", and Thufir says "Bas.t ards"... and that's pretty much it. Meanwhile I'm forced to watch Irulan and Paul meet over dinner, with P. H. Moriarty pretending to play the baliset. Or how about the scene where Irulan seduces Feyd? Pointless. Meanwhile, I'd have liked to have seen Thufir actually manipulating the Harkonens after his capture, or maybe Feyd's duel with the Atreides soldier (which was a very important character point for Feyd in the novel). Or, oh I don't know, actually give Yeuh a role in this thing so that when he betrays the Duke, we don't say "Wait, who was he again?"

A waste of film. The money should've been given to the guys who made Farscape; they knew how to stretch a dollar so that it went further, and still have it look good on the screen. Plus the people in their show could occaisionally act.

In the defense of the mini I will conceed two points.

First: The mini Baron is a better portrayal of the Baron than the film version. That's not to say that I don't have a soft spot for the Floating Fatman, but McNiece seemed to actually know how smart and subtle the Baron could be. His is one of the few perfomances I won't slight... He did a good job, and was truer to the novel than the film version.

Second: Duncan got to do stuff. True, he was as bland and boring and utterly forgettable as everybody else, but at least he got to do a few of the things that he did in the novel. Still didn't get to kill nineteen Sardaukar in single combat, though... I suppose I have to hold out hope for the next version of Dune for that.

Squid Hills

"Insert witty quote here"

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Just felt I have to insert my oars worth.

I have only seen the first two of the miniseries and couldn`t justify wasting any more money on renting the third installment (I got the first two in one go).
OK, EVERY pronunciation is different to the Lynch film and on contemplation how are we to know exactly how Herbert intended the pronuciations to be made (although i read the names in the books as they appeared in the film, I read the first book before seeing the film.).
Like many others I was extremely disappointed at the miniseries portrayal (or wreckage) of the characters in the miniseries (miseries!). The characters were alot better in Lynchs vision.
The sets were awesome in Lynch`s film and the costumes and music fit the feel of the book extremely well. How could anything beat the feeling of the main theme music and how it protrays the epicness of the book so well? Baron Harkonnen`s theme music is also just perfect. I never thought much of Toto but in combination with the almighty Eno is just chillingly amazing!
In contrast the sets and costumes were utterly appalling in the miniseries and completely ruined the main attribute this vision of Herberts classic had over the film, the fact it contained more of the book and was at least twice as long (it also was a bit more faithful to the book), thereby prolonging what should have been a blissfull whirlwind through Frank Herberts DUNE!

There is something else I think a lot of people seem not to notice. CGI looks aweful, so much more so than models and backdrops. Only the most expensive and time consuming CGI works and even that is noticable as "unreal" in most places where as even in films like STAR WARS IV the models are only sometimes noticable as "unreal". CGI has no real texture MOST OF THE TIME where as models lose scale only where incorect camera lenses are employed. And both look aweful with bad bluescreening (which most is!).

Although I do now want to try to watch the miniseries again and hopefully see it to its conclusion. I think it has been long enough now since i read the book and hopefully i wont get too frustrated with the terribly poor acting, character assassination, set design and costumes to watch the thing through.

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Well, because Frank Herbert was alive at the time the first one was made and that I do believe he did offer some technical advice on the film. Needless to say, even if there was very little input from Herbert himself he would've definitely corrected Lynch when it came to pronouncing his words the way he meant them to be pronounced. God forbid what he would've thought about the remake...if he were to have risen from the grave, this would certainly put him right back there!

Of course the special effects were'nt as up to par as they could've been...hell, that's a given considering the fact that this did'nt exactly have a "Star Wars" type budget, but you know what? I've never really noticed that some of the effects were a bit shoddy until it was pointed out...the entire look and feel of the film suited the book so well that you just overlooked it. And Kenneth McMillan as Harkonnen? You could'nt come up with a better portrayal of pure malice and evil if you hire Joseph Mengale...it was perfect!

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There are actually lots of projectile weapons being used on Arrakis. When Paul begins leading the Fremen raids, their tactics changed and part of that included using projectile arms. One scene displaying this is the one when Gurney and the smugglers are captured by Paul's band.

I think the biggest thing here remains the budget. 20 Million for 6 hours? in 2000? Lynch got 40 Million in 1984. Maybe the screen writer hadn't read the book, but he sure came closer to capturing the story than the Lynch version did.

The addition of Irulan was annoying, but it did get mingled into an important scene that was a part of the book (but not in the Lynch version). The Sardaukar uniforms in both versions bordered on just stupid.

I hope somewhere along the line that someone gives this story a proper, fully budgeted treatment. The original movie was a worse than awful in my opinion, mutilating the story and turning it into 80's pop-art. The mini-series was clearly Sci-fi biting off more than they could chew.

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Amen...and Amen

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There are so many things about each that I like, and so many things that I dislike...

There's one (and only one) advantage Moriarty has over Stewart in this case: Gurney is frequently described in terms that make it obvious that he is NOT a good looking man - from the "doughy" looks, to the constantly-mentioned "inkvine scar." Stewart still wins, but I had to throw that out. In every other instance, the movie had a much better cast.

I absolutely HATED the strange costumes in the miniseries, especially the Bene Gesserit and those god-awful Sardaukar uniforms. The only outfits I really liked were the stillsuits - though I really liked the movie interpretation as well.

As...odd as the Guild members in the movie were, I prefer them to the gesticulating, pantomime weirdos in the miniseries.

I know why the movie used werding modules rather than the weiding way, but that still doesn't make me like them.

The Imperial dignitaries operating the turret gun in the movie: what? who? what?





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[deleted]

In the Alan Smithee version we get to see a bit more of Patrick Stewart as Gurney. It becomes painfully obvious why most of these scenes were cut out in the first place. I have respect for Stewart, but this was by far one of the worst roles I've seen him perform. Even the porrer abilities for acting in the Mini-series went over with me much better for this character.

I'll join the chorus on Wiliam Hurt and say that his his portrayal of Leto may Pronchow look good, even though I somehow felt that noth versions missed the image of the character by far in my mind.

As much as I enjoyed watching Brad Dourif, I did not feel that that he came across as a Mentat.

I personally couldn't help but feel that the mini-series conveyed a more coherent sense of a story then then the Lynch movie, which I've always liked despite its many flaws. Lynch movie demands repeated viewings as the first viewing does easily provoke the reaction the it has fallen far short of being a good movie. It was the second time I watched it that I started to realize I liked it.

If the material covered in the mini-series had been presented in the much more visually styled manner of the Lynch film, we might actually have something that could eventually be called a classic. I'll go get started on it now.

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Let me simplify my feelings regarding this uh...(coughcough) remake of Dune:

If they can't even get pronounce the word "Harkonen" right you KNOW this is bad!! It's" har-KOH-nen", ya nimrods, "HAAARRRR KHOH NNEN"!! NOT "HAR-kuhnen" ......"HAR-KHOH-NEN"!! Oh, and William Hurt was the wimpiest, whingingest Duke I've bloody well ever seen....Yech!!

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"William Hurt is just too "soft". When he tries to show anger, he just looks like he's about to cry."

Haha! William Hurt in the mini-series is about the only thing I don't like about it, otherwise I think they did an excellent job with this made for TV movie. David Lynch's version seems clumsy to me, especially towards the end of the film. That and it completely destroys the main character of Paul and totally missed the point of the novel...it was really a failure on a lot of levels but still an enjoyable movie, more for people who have never actually read the novel and never will. I guess its pretty obvious where I cast my lot.

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[deleted]

I don't agree. Firstly; Paul's downfall was to a certain extent voluntary. I haven't managed to reread Dune Messiah for sometime, but didn't Paul 'want' his own downfall? He hated the Jihad and if he died it would just carry on. To stop it he would have had to take the final step that he wasn't willing to take because it would have meant Chani's death? (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Secondly, I do agree the way Paul was portrayed was intentional. But I don't agree that it was true to the book. For example; at the Dinner Party, Jessica mentions that Paul doesn't allow himself to be enticed/distracted by the women, and he sticks to his responsibilities. In this version he wanders off to talk to Gurney, and ends up flirting with Irulan.

In the Book Paul is mature and intelligent. He was raised as an adult. Irulan comments that he had no companions of his own age - his companions were his teachers; Thufir, Duncan, Dr Yueh and Gurney. In addition to this he was being trained by his Bene Gesserit mother.
In the mini series Paul is petulant with flashes of 'power'. (For instance he can resist the Reverend Mothers voice - something that he wasn't able to do in the book.)

I think these changes to his character were made for 'realism' and to make him easier to emphasise him. Whether that actually worked is another matter.

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Let me simplify my feelings regarding this uh...(coughcough) remake of Dune:

If they can't even get pronounce the word "Harkonen" right you KNOW this is bad!! It's" har-KOH-nen", ya nimrods, "HAAARRRR KHOH NNEN"!! NOT "HAR-kuhnen" ......"HAR-KHOH-NEN"!! Oh, and William Hurt was the wimpiest, whingingest Duke I've bloody well ever seen....Yech!!


Actually, the mini got it right.

Because it came first, many people have the mistaken idea that the pronunciation of 'Harkonnen' in the Lynch film is the correct one. Frank Herbert himself recorded examples of how to pronounce certain words in Dune, which you can find here: http://www.usul.net/books/sounds.htm

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[deleted]

I thought the mini-series was really good I thought that they did a better job of showing the change that Paul underwent through the events in the story and how his character developed. I also thought that it did a much better job of sticking to the book than the other version did, albeit I didn't like the fact that Irulan had a bigger presence in the movie than she did in the book.

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I love the books of Dune, but found the original movie to be terrible. I went into the mini-series hoping for something better. I came out with a new appreciation for the original movie.

Other than the terrible acting and CGI (especially the comical moment where Paul and Jessica and clearly running in front of a greenscreen to get away from an ornithopter), the biggest thing that made me not enjoy this mini-series was how clean everyone and everything is.

The 'thopters are spotless, having flown through countless storms I would expect some sort of marking on them to show it.

The Fremen too are a remarkably clean people it seems. They live in caves and yet their clothes are all brand new, not a scratch on them, and the washing machines are clearly well maintained.

The stilsuits... Don't get me started. Army fatigues? They didn't look like they could keep moisture in any more than the woman who played Jessica could act.

And their eyes... I thought the ones in the movie were abysmal, but at least they were consistently bad. The ones throughout the mini-series seem to come and go as they please, fade, get stronger, etc.

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