"this all harkens back to THE MARTIX: What is real? If real is just electrons interpretted by your brain, there you go. We're about 15 minutes away from intercepting those in real life, recording dreams, using probes in the brain to control stuff, maybe capture memories soon...."
The Matrix used an interface too.
"in this film, they end up in the 2024 (if that was real) wearing little headset units. Those would be wirelessly attached to networking (like we have today already) and most likely running on a cloud based sim (which we have already)"
Yes, that was their interface.
"Suspension of disbleif works in that we SEE the programmed people CAN jack up through the cable into a human body, same way human consciousness goes down into the sim body."
The concept of suspension of disbelief is irrelevant here, since the movie doesn't actually establish that 2024 is the real world. We only know that the 2024 natives think it's the real world, but this is in a movie where the 1999 natives also think they're in the real world, as do the 1930s natives, and the movie shows that they are both wrong.
Furthermore, even if the movie had established that 2024 was the real world, suspension of disbelief still wouldn't apply, because suspension of disbelief isn't a "get out of jail free card" for plot holes and other forms of bad writing. The whole idea behind striving for good writing is to maintain the audience's suspension of disbelief. When impossible things happen (impossible relative to the in-universe parameters), that naturally breaks suspension of disbelief.
"I see you are saying the CODE that creates the sim doesn't roll up into a human, I get that, but if the electronic programming (touch, feel, pain etc) is just electrons moving, MAYBE that is easily duplicated when we figure out how, and it matches our functionality."
That's like saying that computer code could somehow get into my basic household wiring and control my lights, because it's just electrons moving. Nevermind that my household wiring has no computer hardware whatsoever.
The "people" in the computer simulations consist of computer code, which absolutely can not run on a human brain. The human brain is entirely incompatible with computer code. If 2024 is meant to be the real world, and if the people had computerized brain implants with access to and overriding control over all bodily functions, then it could work because the computer code would have hardware to run on and an interface to use, but the movie never established, nor even suggested, any such thing, so the only possibility that doesn't require bad writing is that 2024 is just another simulation.
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123Guy (7838)
23 days ago
I think my point is, we dont know the function of the interface and programming as it worked in the movie. In this movie, it is working. We see it. It is not something we can relate to in our current tech life.
We simply don't know HOW it worked, but we SEE it work fine in this movie.
trying to think of a good example here.... Elon Musk's neural impant thing.... if they plug wires into our brain and our brain can trigger stuff... that is one direction. I'm pretty sure they can plug wires into rats now and trigger their arms or something with electrical impulses that could be computer programmed to work certain ways.
We're one step away from this all working successfully today.
Anyway, I get this movie tech didn't work for you, and that's cool.
I like how this movie portrayed all this - dated as it is now - and enjoy the ride "believing" what I am shown in the movie, works, in the movie fine. :)
And don't forget the final "is it real" stab at the very end where the screens just blinks out. ;) I just see that as a cute ending, not telling us 2024 wasnt real
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MaximRecoil (4836)
22 days ago
"I think my point is, we dont know the function of the interface and programming as it worked in the movie. In this movie, it is working. We see it. It is not something we can relate to in our current tech life. We simply don't know HOW it worked"
We don't need to know it worked. We only need to know that it's fundamentally impossible for computer code to run directly on a human brain.
"but we SEE it work fine in this movie."
No, we don't. Again, the movie doesn't establish that 2024 is the real world; it's left open to interpretation. The only interpretation that doesn't create a bad writing scenario is that 2024 was yet another simulation.
"trying to think of a good example here.... Elon Musk's neural impant thing.... if they plug wires into our brain and our brain can trigger stuff... that is one direction. I'm pretty sure they can plug wires into rats now and trigger their arms or something with electrical impulses that could be computer programmed to work certain ways. We're one step away from this all working successfully today."
Those examples use computer hardware for the computer code to run on and an interface to allow the computer to "talk to" the brain and/or nervous system. In 2024, David has no interface; he's not even wearing his headset (well, he is at first but he takes it off a moment after waking up), yet the Douglas consciousness, which is definitely a computer program, is controlling David's body. If David is a real-world human, that's fundamentally impossible, because the computer code has no computer hardware to run on, nor even to be stored on. So David is not a real-world human, he's just another computer program in another computer simulation.
"Anyway, I get this movie tech didn't work for you, and that's cool."
I didn't say that. Everything is fine as long as 2024 is interpreted to be another computer simulation. Interpreting it as the real world results in something that's fundamentally impossible no matter how much sci-fi you throw at it. It's fundamentally impossible in the same way that it's fundamentally impossible to fire a 12-gauge shotgun shell from a stock Ruger 10/22 rifle, or to run an ordinary gasoline engine directly on pea soup, or to run Atari 2600 code directly on x86 PC hardware. That can be done, but not directly. An emulator is needed, which acts as a translator of sorts between the Atari 2600 code and the incompatible x86 PC hardware. At least the Atari 2600 and the x86 PC are both computer hardware platforms. In the case of a human brain, it's not even a computer hardware platform of any kind, so it has no way to accept a transfer of the code, no way to store the code, and no way to execute the code.
Like I said before, if the "people" in 2024 used computerized brain implants as an interface to the lower simulation, then the "2024 is the real world" interpretation would be plausible (because that would provide the Douglas computer program with computer hardware to run on as well as an interface to the human brain), but they didn't. They used removable headsets that they only wore when they wanted to enter the lower simulation. It's plausible that the Douglas program could have run on David's headset, but the interface to the brain would be severed when David takes the headset off and/or turns it off.
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123Guy (7838)
22 days ago
yup, I do get what you are saying, code to organic does not work.
not really trying to change you mind, it's perfectly valid, and understandable.
For me the transference part, though could be called "magic" is just technology not even remotely explained to us. to me, it is digital to analog technology, not unlike the EAR hearing digital music. And although the origin is digital, it is moved into analog form via Digital to Analog converters. Although music it time based, the resulting analog sound waves were created from digital samples. I would go as far as saying those digital samples pushed out into real live analog soundwaves CAN BE copied into analog form like a vinyl album or even a human voice making the sounds.
Thus, this magic technology we dont under stand is moving the digital code into electrical impulses inside our brain consisting of memories, experiences, feelings, personality, moto functions etc.
If our brain nurons hold all this stuff, it could MAYBE be moved/copied into digital forms (Maybe! Much assumed future tech here)
IF, for example, the human brain electrons and nural storage could be mapped out digitally, say 162 TERAbytes, encompassing all our memories experiences etc, that could be moved(copied) down to an avatar, and through the bug in the back and forth system in THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR, avatar's 162 TB back up INTO the human brain, creating a person.
I know this doesn't explain the 2024 fakery version, and certainly it could totally be another fake reality. I don't think we are meant to totally know - which was the major point. So, no one is actually wrong in their guess or belief of the ending. :)
But, inside the movie's universe, I feel the tech worked. :)
PS fun discussion
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