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At what point did Alanzo decide to kill Jake?

posted 12 years ago by rollerblader2
42 replies | jump to latest

Pardon me for asking this question, since I think it's been asked before (though I had trouble accessing some of the threads)

The theories I've seen are:
1) He decides to have him killed right after Roger was killed but *before* giving his speech to Jake in the car after the murder. Evidence for that theory is that apparently you can hear Alanzo saying on the phone, right when they are willing out the injured officer "make sure you clean up that tub."
Now, if that theory is correct, why not just go with Paul's idea and have Jake killed at Roger's? Nothing happened after that, and before the "tub" comment on the phone, to make him change his mind. All I can think of is that it's somehow better for Alanzo if Jake is killed somewhere else other than the crime scene. But I don't know why that would be.

2) He decides to have him killed only after his speech in the car, after Roger's. Up to that point, he's still considering keeping Jake alive. But we see nothing that tells us why he would change his mind between them talking the car and arriving at the Latinos.

3) Another theory was that he was planning on killing him from the very beginning. (This theory is also consistent with the "tub" comment on the phone) But that still begs the question of why he needed the Latino gang, rather than just going with Paul's plan of having Jake killed at Roger's.

Theories 1 and 3 raise the question of, Why give the speech at all? What purpose does it serve Alanzo? One commenter suggested that the reason is that he needed Jake to go give a statement to the DAs office, and that he did so *after* Roger's. Once giving the statement, Alanzo didn't need him any longer and could go to have him killed. That's an interesting theory -- but the problem with it is that we don't see anything suggesting that Jake stopped at the DAs office before being taken to the Latino gang. (That would have been really useful information -- watching Jake being willing to make a false report would be watching him cross the line in a big way, and, if that was meant to happen, you'd think the director would want us to see that.)

Thoughts? Thanks!

[–] procreate 11 years ago

just make sure that bathtub is clean, homey.

WOW. I had seen this movie a million times and this is the first time I pay attention to this.
I always thought that was something not related to the events comming, just Alonzo taking to the phone.
Having this in mind, then I think that Alonzo want to kill him before anything, since the beginning. He want to use Jake and then dispose him.
Jake said "I will do anything you want me to do", then Alonzo has green light, to show him how the game is.
And he gives him clear signals. Alonzo shows a lil and see how he reacts, and then he continues. Till the point of no return, when they came to the Rogers house and ask him to kill Roger.
Alonzo said "I've been planning it all week, son.". And that includes, making him smoke pcp to kill him.
All of these make you think that Alonzo was plaining all of this beforehand, more because the russians want his ass, so he needs money fast and someone disposable to complete the job. If Jake is good with all the stuff he does, then Alonzo wont kill him, because he worth but the kid was dead since the beginning.

BUT MAYBE...

Alonzo knew the mexican's cousin. Thats why he leaves her to go. Remember when Alonzo said "Now, you say your cousins from where?" and the girl reply "From Hillside Trece!" then Alonzo said "Tell your cousins to get your back". He knows her, she dont but he does, more when she said where her cousins are from.

Then why Alonzo would kill him using specifically by those mexicans?. Why would kill him AFTER what happend to Roger? Woulnt be so evident that the rookie guy, who just enter to that division get murder? Woudlnt be VERY suspicious?. Just the same day of a big fish get killed a rookie gets killed in another place by some "random" mexicans?.
Maybe it was a test, like Alonzo said. If he survive to this, like he did with the two guys alone (he saw something on him), then he is one of the team, not yet corrupted but someone that worth to have.

[–] keyser_soze_smokes 10 years ago

Right after 'Superman' removed his cape; Jonny Olla was one thing but this crosses the line, yo.

=======================================
🐋 Doggy dolphins? 💅Erection?

[–] liquidsouther 10 years ago

I think Alonzo wanted to kill Jake from the very beginning of his plan, but was not, IMHO, exactly sure when, especially after he immediately found out that this was no ordinary, corruptable rookie. I like to think that he finally set the things in motion after Roger's murder.

ALTOBELLO YOU *beep*!!

[–] ChocolateFrankenstein 9 years ago

My guess is Alonzo decided to kill Jake when Jake first refused to take the drug money. Once Jake refused him a second time that was the last straw for Alonzo.

When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness.

[–] jawsfan007 9 years ago

Alonzo thought Jake would turn, but after refusing the money and Jake not really going along with roger's murder. Before he gets in the car to give the speech, you can hear him talking to smiley "make sure the tub is clean. "

[–] Sturm_Liouville 9 years ago

It was after jake decided not to kill the drug dealer and pointed a gun to alonzos head etc. You can hear alonzo talking to hillside treses or whatever in the car before the speech. He mentions to the person to make sure to clean his bathtub. This is where the gang took jake to blow his brains out with a shotgun.

[–] SirMozman 9 years ago

Another one for the not taking the money.

Alonzo was stressed as hell and thought he was a dead man walking. Then when the three wise men said he could tax someone his eyes lit up and he saw salvation. As a guy above said, when Jake said "I will do anything you want me to do" I think Alonzo thought Jake could be corrupted. Then he saw Jake's fighting ability and eagle eye. He would be a excellent addition to his crew. The quickness and intensity of assembling his crew and the fact that Alonzo wanted Jake long term meant he took the chance of throwing him in the deep end and testing out his corruptibility.

I think Alonzo was so disappointed when Jake didnt take the money that his "I'll hold it for you" line was genuine. It was a big ask for Jake to take the cash when only knowing all of them for a few hours. Then when Alonzo shot Roger and Jake reacted like he did, Alonzo knew he had to kill him and that he was not going to be corrupted. He then made the call. I dont believe for one second that Alonzo has planned to kill Jake all along. It doesnt make any sense. Why have the fallout of a Cop dying on his watch and the *beep* that would have escalated as a result. If Jake didnt show so much potential during the day then Alonzo would have probably sent him home. Alonzo got Jake to smoke the PCP/Weed simply to stop Jake from reporting Alonzo to the big wigs for his illegal activity up to the Sandman raid. Jake knew his career was over if Alozon got him piss tested which he knew Alonzo could make happen with his reputation and contacts.

[–] moviefool09 9 years ago

Having this in mind, then I think that Alonzo want to kill him before anything, since the beginning. He want to use Jake and then dispose him.

BINGO. I almost think the opposite of what most people do- I think all day Alonzo was looking for a reason NOT to kill Jake and couldn't find one. He was going to do whatever it took to get out of his entanglement with the Wise Men and if Jake didn't help him and do EVERYTHING he asked, he would not survive the day.

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

[–] helloweed 9 years ago

Another thing we didn't see is when Alonzo puts the money into the blender he gives Smiley. According to the script that's the money Jake refused. I assume it happened while Jake was being interviewed by Stan. When they left Roger's the sun was still shining, but when they arrived to Smiley's it was already dark. The 2 locations are not that far from each other, so a chunk of time is missing.

[–] tueher86 9 years ago

Its very simple.

Alonzo had a plan laid out from the beginning of how he was going to use Hoyt.

His Plan A was always to get the money from Roger to save his own hide.

Corrupting or killing Jake was just Plan B and Plan C.

He spent the day using Jake as a pawn in his own greater scheme but at the same time he is also judging Hoyt's character and his value.

The pivotal part of the plot is the raid on Roger's house. This was the moment Alonzo used to determine if Hoyt could be trusted as one of his crew or dead weight. If Hoyt had taken the money and shot Roger then Alonzo would have no reason to kill him. In fact, at this point he was already impressed by Hoyt and if he had turned corrupt, Hoyt might have became Alonzo's favorite.

Once Jake proved that he was incorruptible, Alonzo made up his mind that he had to kill him to cover his tracks. The entire speech in the car was for Alonzo's own deluded visions and an attempt to keep Hoyt off guard until Alonzo can get him to Smileys.

By the end of the movie, you realize that Alonzo was merely a fool running around thinking he can rip people off forever just because he had a badge.

[–] DontTrollMeBro 9 years ago

Excellent post.

Alonzo was clearly a psychopath with a badge.

[–] noone1647 8 years ago

As far as Hoyt taking the money or not being a factor, I had always assumed that if Hoyt did take the money, put it in his pocket, then the Latino gang who killed him was just supposed to take it out of his pocket after as payment for the hit. Since he didn't take the money, Alonzo had to stuff it in the blender and give it to them that way. I had a feeling it was the same cash (Hoyt's blood money) it would either be on him for the gangbangers or given another way, but that is what Alonzo had that money earmarked for.

In other words, whether he took the money or not he was dead and that money was the payoff for that hit.

[–] hawkinssouth 8 years ago

I think Alonzo was planning to have Jake killed, exactly the way he set it up. No matter what Jake did. Even if Jake had taken his share of Roger's money, Jake would have died -- Alonzo needed that money to pay off the Russians. Why did he keep talking to Jake? Not because he was trying to test him or turn him; only because Alonzo clearly loved to hear himself talk. He probably enjoyed airing all his theories to someone he knew would never repeat them.

Post-Roger-shooting, the story would remain that the rookie lost his head and shot. Because Alonzo knows Jake won't be around to contradict.

As another poster mentioned, it would be fishy for the rookie to be killed right after this big bust -- but how long would it take for that body to show up? And Alonzo can say anything he wants about that day with Jake, any story of how Jake acted. Maybe Jake was intensely remorseful about having lost his head, and he went off half-cocked into dangerous territory to prove himself. Or maybe Jake said/did things to the wrong people that day, and put a target on his back. Alonzo is King Kong -- he doesn't doubt his ability to bring this off.

So I think whether Alonzo liked Jake (and maybe he did) was moot; Alonzo had a plan and he stuck to his plan. It was Jake's luck that he rescued the niece of that Mexican gang. Dumb luck that brought down King Kong. Just my opinion.