MovieChat Forums > Pitch Black (2000) Discussion > Who REALLY killed Fry - Creature or Ridd...

Who REALLY killed Fry - Creature or Riddick


Ok, I just finished watching the first Riddick movie (first, as far as I know, anyway) and now have a question. I swear up and down that it was one of the creatures who got Fry, but my grandson swears just as strongly that it was Riddick who killed her by stabbing her in the back.

My grandson is 16 and he's normally pretty darn observant and we've never disagreed so violently about a movie plot before. He's ALMOST got me questioning my own idea on what happened so I really need to know!

I say that Riddick had no reason to kill Fry.
I also say that this movie was pretty darn good... much, much better than I expected it to be! Now I'm off to watch the second movie, but I gotta know for sure who Fry's killer was, so......

Please - someone - anyone - help!

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Im almost pretty sure that it was a creature, becasue Riddick had feelings towards her...I mean, I don;t think that he would have killed her for no reason, and he was pissed when he was holding her limp in his hands. I'm not sure..but who knows...I think it was a creature..

I rather feel pain than nothing at all.

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It was definitely the creature.

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exactly I mean after she gets taken away Riddick is on the ground and he says, "Not for me, Not for me!" I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have said that if he had killed her

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Although I think it's obvious, I applaud your grandson for thinking outside the box.

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[deleted]

I honestly assumed it was both, I thought he knew the creature was there (he can see them obviously) so he knew they would both be killed so he figured "better you then me" and cut her so the creatures would smell(or was it see?) the blood and get her then as she is pulled away and killed he feels bad. As for the not for me, i think he ment he did it for the oldman and the kid

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WTF are you arguing about, it was obvious it was creature, and that is simply bad question to even discuss this matter.


"Cry for all those who choose light over darkness"

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Ok, so its not obvious that its the creature. This is my favorite movie, and I have spent a lot of hours studying this scene. Here's a few arguments for both.

For the creature stabbing Fry:
Ok, well it does appear at first glance that this is what appears to happen, so I guess I don't really need an argument for this one.

For Riddick stabbing Fry:
If you look at the angle of Riddick's arm when this happens it does appear that it is the perfect angle to stab her. Riddick was also a cold blooded killer, ready to leave her, Imam, and Jack on the planet to fend for themselves till she came and ruined his plan. If he was going to leave her/them in the first place, why wouldn't he stab her? While it does appear that he has some semblance of a conscience he's really just out for number one. So, taking that into consideration it was her or him, and he chose him. Right before this scene she goes back for him and tells him that she said she would die for them, but not for him. So, his not for me yelling right after could mean that she didn't die for him, she died for them.

Not saying that any of this is correct, but its just something to think about.

Love is the adult version of Santa. And how do we know Santa didn't get stuck in the chimney?

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I disagree. Almost completelly. He liked her, he didnt believe that she would die even for him, thats why he was suprised when she came back for him. If he wanted to kill her, he would have done it back at the ship when she came for him to come with her to rescue Imam and Jack. He told her he respects her, and I dont reccall him saying that any time more in any of this 2 movies. He liked her, in his way. and there is no way he would have killed her.


"Cry for all those who choose light over darkness"

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I'm not saying he wanted to kill her. I'm saying that it was a him or her situation. I'm not saying that you're wrong, by all means. but when watching a movie like this there are just a few possibilities. In your view everything is fine and dandy, but in the view that I proposed there's a little twist that people really weren't expecting. Which I think is pretty much the whole movie. The movie was starting to get a bit predictable, and so maybe they just wanted to throw that in. I really don't think there is a right answer here, unless we ask David Twohy himself.

Love is the adult version of Santa. And how do we know Santa didn't get stuck in the chimney?

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Send him e-mail :D
Anyway. Yea, there are people who still think he killed her. I dont think so, but thats just because i really liked the way they talked, i can say that he talked that way only to Jack(Kyra) in COTR, and he liked Jack. So my logical thinking makes me think he liked Fry. In some strange way tho.
Anyway, there is many illogical things, so this couldnt be an exception.
but, there is the fact that creature stabbed her and took her from his arms, so that makes creature the killer, from any point of view, she was still alive when the creature took her :)


"Cry for all those who choose light over darkness"

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This is one of my favorite movies.
Watching it now, but I saw this many times.
Fry and Riddick has a common bond, remember in the beginning of the movie, when Fry was going to jettisen all the cargo, and passengers to save her own life, that was the common bond, "always looking after for number one, himself".

Riddick:"stronge survival instinct, I like that in a woman"

Remember Riddick was just going to leave everyone, when he got to the skift first, then Fry showed up, and was just going to leave with Riddick, then she started to get a conscience, now that she is the captain, and has formed a bond with the passengers.

Remember he also had second thoughs saving Jack, when she was being attacked, and she was calling Riddick to save her, after a brief moment, he saved her. I'm guessing it was because she wanted to be just like him, shaving her head and all.

Riddick: "would you die for them!"

Yes it was the creature that killed Fry, but Riddick was already injured by one of them, or actually there were two creatures, and Fry went back, found him down, and started to help him get back to the ship, helping him walk, thats when Fry got gwar, that's why he said " not for me".

So, one can also say that Riddick got Fry killed, for showing compassion to a notorious killer, thus the old Riddick was killed.

Jack: "what do we say if we run into a merc ship?"
Riddick: "just tell them that Riddick is dead"

"There is my God Mr. Riddick"

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Correct. Other interpretations are absurd given the unambiguous final scenes. Riddick has evolved. It's a fable about compassion.


"Dogs bark . . . when the elephant passes." - - Sir David Lean

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[deleted]

By the look on their faces after she gets hurt, I would say he did it. It would be logical to do in order to save himself.
They were surrounded by the creatures by the sound of it. There was no solution other than someone dying.

Riddick is a survivor, a predator. In Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay, he says he admires creatures that kill without compassion or remorse, in order to feed themselves, in order to survive.
You just need to hear the first few sentences in the movie to know what kind of person Riddick is.

This is Riddick's strength as a movie character. Without his lack of conscience, he is nothing. He's just another "badass" action hero.

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Agreed.

"Dad wants us to pick up where he left off. Saving people, hunting things. The family business."

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This is such a dumb discussion. The creature killed her.

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To me this scene doesn't take that much examining. All you need to notice is that as Fry was being dragged away by the creature Riddick tried to cling on to her.
Of all the arguments, this is the best evidence put forth to finally resolve this debate. Why would Riddick try to hold on to her if he killed her to save himself?

Now the next question is, did Fry actually die? We didn't see her die. I'm thinking she somehow got free from the raptor's grasp and is hiding in some bunk, waiting for the sun to rise. ;)

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by - H_a_V_o_C on Sun Nov 11 2007 03:38:22
This is such a dumb discussion. The creature killed her.



The creature killed her. There is nothing to analyze. It stabbed her and flew away with her. Her look of surprise was because it finally seemed like they were all going to be safe and then she got owned. Riddick was pissed she was killed. I like this movie a lot but its not complicated. What you see is what you get.

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He didn't kill her. It was meant for you to think that, and then almost immediately you realise, no, it was the creature. Films do that. End of story.

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It's left like that for a reason. It's called ambiguity. Watch American Psycho and see if that's all clear cut. I think that those of you so opposed to the idea of Riddick stabbing fry are those who want him to be the classic Hollywood salvation story, happy ending and all that. The fact is, the director himself left it open to discussion otherwise it would have been clearer. It's important to show what you want the audience to see. Twohy showed little. He may have been remorseful on the ship afterwards and that would explain his line. It's open for debate, but either possibility is, well, possible. No-one's an idiot for reading into it.

"Did you make a copy? Coz if you made a copy, we could watch the copy..."

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you are not very smart

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[deleted]

[deleted]

"It's left like that for a reason."

it's neither "Left like that", nor would there be a reason to do so

"It's called ambiguity."

there is no ambiguity. what we are dealing with here is "selective thinking".

"I think that those of you so opposed to the idea of Riddick stabbing fry are those who want him to be the classic Hollywood salvation story, happy ending and all that."

did you even watch the film?

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But, why would she stop her tracks with her eyes bulging BEFORE she got attacked by the creature.

Also, the remorseful look on Riddick's face portrays a feeling of "I'm sorry, but I had to."

Riddick definitely stabbed her because he was pissed off at her for making him go back for Imam and Jack. Or something along those lines. Watch the scene again, paying attention to the facial expressions.

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But, why would she stop her tracks with her eyes bulging BEFORE she got attacked by the creature.


because the creature had just stabbed her in the back. its pretty obvious the creature killed her. they want you to think for a second that riddick stabbed her, but its just a momentary pause for dramatic effect for when the monster pulls her away. thats why he said "not for me". she said she would die for the passengers, he didn't think he was worth her death.

you are supposed to think it was him until we see the freaking monster pull her away people, i guess they did too good of a job on the first part for some of you.




pbrc.net

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I'm certain that Fry was killed by the creature. An earlier post on this thread explains it very clearly as the moment where Fry sacrifices herself for Riddick, who is in turn, redeemed by the act.

But that's not even what I want to discuss here. What I want to discuss are all the folks posting that this is a "stupid" debate. Considering that this is the climax of the movie, why wouldn't we be talking about it?

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People who said that Riddick told Jack 'Tell em Riddicks dead. He died somewhere on that planet', they all said that he meant the old Riddick died, new one born, I disagree with that because if you watched The Chronicles of Riddick, Riddick was escaping from the mercs and he wasn't happy cuz he've told Imam and Jack to tell the mercs that hes dead in that planet, but Imam said he didn't tell anyone that hes still alive, so he went to find Jack, so in Pitch Black, when he said tell em Riddicks dead, its because he want to be left alone.

Most of us agrees that its the creature that killed Fry but this topic is very interesting, I can see why some people who thinks Riddick slashed Fry, its interesting. But I doubt it because Riddick was bleeding, the creature could have taken both Riddick and Fry cause they can smell Riddicks blood bleeding out, but didn't take Riddick, I don't know, but if you watched, Fry helped Riddick to get up, lifted him up, and they just seem to have switched position and the creature got Fry, don't know if Riddick did it on purpose, but I highly doubt it. Interesting topic.

Riddick - Merceneries. Elementals. Necromongers. *beep* I've never been so popular.

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Ok, ok people...last night I was thinking about this topic and realised something...

For those who thinks creature killed Fry, including me, have a think about this. Why did the creature killed Fry at the end if they had a chance to kill her while she was in the hole where Zeke was killed???? But they didn't, why not? I mean, I know she wasn't bleeding in any ways when she was in the hole but she wasn't bleeding when she was trying to help Riddick to get up?

Am I wrong? Is there something I forgot about the scene in the hole?

Riddick - Merceneries. Elementals. Necromongers. *beep* I've never been so popular.

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It is hilarious to think that Riddick spent the whole movie playing an antihero that kills as easily as breathing, yet does not kill without reason and then he is thought to have the heartlessness to kill somebody he spent the whole movie trying to collaborate with on staying alive and escaping. At no point in time is it mentioned that he is a cold-blooded killer and the details of why he was ever a prisoner are a bigger mystery. Needless to say, it is clear he does not kill unless provoked. If that was not the case, he would have killed anybody that would have been a liability to the group's survival.

I do think Twohy filmed the scene in such a way to show an initial ambiguity of what happened, but as Fry is being taken away, it becomes obvious that the creature killed her and not because Riddick did anything to facilitate that. He could have killed ALL of them long before and after Fry's death. Why did he choose that moment to kill somebody that he had a better chance of surviving WITH than without?

I hate to say that the argument is stupid, but there is much to say about how a director chooses for a scen to be interpreted and how that interpretation really goes off-tangent. Discussion is merited, length of discussion is not.

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The creature killed her. What a question. The creature gored her and you can see by the look on Riddicks face that he was suprised. And I am sorry but I never considered him a cold-blooded killer. He did what needed doing, he was a warrior, from a planet of warriors. He was always honest about who he was. People are so good at believing what they are told especially if it is negative. Why is that?
Riddick had his own set of values and defended a lot of people, made clearer in the second movie. Cheers Furdion

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So I just rewatched this scene, keeping in mind senario "B", and -wow. Everyone who doubts that Riddick might have killed Fry should go watch it again. I'm not saying it's true, but there's a 5 second pause between where Fry gets stabbed and pulled away, and Riddick's face is utterly emotionless during it. If she had been stabbed by the creature, I would expect him to at least be surprised, if not saddened. But nope, he just looks at her. After all, he's already shown (as have Fry and Johns), that he's willing to let people die to save himself. And we know he'd kill to save himself (the pilot of the escape ship pre-movie). So why not a friend?

So my guess is yes, it was left ambiguous on purpose. Because it would really change Riddick's character, and totally re-define the other movies.

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I have rewatched it, and his face is not completely expressionless as you say. There is some expression of shock and confusion. Wouldn't you be too?

And still, if he did stab her, a) isn't it quite a coincidence that the monster stabbed her and snatched her away at the exact same time, b) why would he need to kill her? and c) why was he so distressed about it afterward?

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yeah there is a 5 second delay there where you wonder did Riddck stab Fry and kill her? Because up till then you didnt know a creature was behind them and got her.

After you realize just who got it, and you see the creature carry her away - what you think it wasa c oincidense, that it was there? It waited for Riddick to stab her and carry her off for dinner? NO!

I can give you peeps the 5 second delay excuse but after that COME ON! its obvious the creature got her, and Riddick is very very upset once he realizes it to. ( lets face it that 5 second delay was the directors way of putting the suspense on the movie goers duh!)

which is hwy he yells Not me or whatever meaning he didnt want her to die for him. ANd I always thought that he did save the old guy and the girl out of respect for Fry.

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Topic has a spoiler in it and I don't know why imdb allowed a topic like this with a spoiler in it, plus its kind of dumb because its obvious that he cared alot about her... And he look pissed when she was killed. And at the end he blows the creatures up on purpose when they launch off, whats the point of this topic other then being one huge spoiler for people who didn't see the movie and visit imdb?

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One of those blood hungry t shaped boogas got Fry!

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he says "not for me" because when she 1st goes back to save him she says "I said Id die for them not for you" and when she dies hes screaming in anguish "not for me" like you werent supposed to die for me he was never really that harsh in the movie at all and the only reason he was goin to leave them was cause the girl was bleeding and he didnt ant to deal with it......Its selfish but not as drastic as bating the girl who just came back for him lol

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[deleted]

Kind of a stretch, ShaneOfan.

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I killed Fry. Mystery solved. Carry on.

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there is a plausible theory making basically two possible versions of the ending:

A: the creature kills Fry. "not for me" means "you didn't say you would give your life for ME and i wouldn't have wanted you to if you asked me"

B: Riddick kills Fry. He sees the creature coming, and stabs Fry so that the creature will take her. "not for me" means "you shouldn't have come back for me, because I will kill you to save myself"

now, i really don't think that B fits all too well, A makes a lot more sense, but there isn't really anything specific that rules out version B.

im not sure either if the writers intended this to be ambiguous or not. maybe there is a commentary or something that sheds some light on it?

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This one is real simple. The scene where she gets stabbed by the creature lingered for a bit to build suspense in the audience. So everyone goes "Woah... did he just do what I think he did?" And then finally the creature rips her away and you are supposed to go "Ohhh... it was a creature!" and then Riddick gets all emotional and starts saying "why me?"

It was just a simple director's trick meant to add a little suspense and play off the fact that you never really know where Riddick's Loyalties are.

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Riddick is Riddick, and I like him the way he is...
He can do things man would never expect him to do, but I really doubt he killed her. As you can all see, most people think he didnt kill her.
And I really agree with hylonomus, it was just a trick to fool people. And damn, it worked really good.


"Cry for all those who choose light over darkness"

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Actually, the time while they were "lingering" was slow motion. I just got through watching it, and then listened to the commentary with Vin. He says he loved the slow-motion effect at that point.

If you take it as slow motion, then speed it up in your mind, his look is a look of stunned dismay. He wasn't expecting it. Remember he just survived a fight between two big raptors (that's what the director called them), so he was more than a little dazed. She was half carrying him.

As for the part where she told him "I said I'd die for them, not for you!". It wasn't that she wouldn't die for him, she was saying that she shouldn't "need" to die for him. He's strong enough to not "need" anyone. She was telling him that as a kind of motivational speech. She liked him, also & needed him to fight to survive.

The "Not for me! Not for me!", was him accusing her of dying for him. That's when the old Riddick truly dies, just like he tells Jack after they've taken off.

So to sum it all up. The raptor obviously killed Fry. Riddick, too stunned after barely surviving a fight with two of them, did NOT see the creature coming.

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I disagree. I think what happens is Riddick feels he has a connection with Fry, yet when she says "I said I would die for them, not for you." he is stunned that she would turn her back on him like that.

The "Not for me!" part is saying that she wouldn't die for him.

I think he knows the raptor is there, and lets her die. His face is emotionless - he is not shocked - and no longer cares for her after what she said. He lets her die.


Effin 'A' Cotton, effin 'A'!

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I tried to say nothing because I wasnt too sure even tho I watched movie 6+ times.
But after reading some last posts, I went watching movie again.
THERE IS NO PART WHERE SHE SAYS: "NOT FOR YOU"
She NEVER SAID THAT. If she did, I will gladly see that part...just tell me where it is...the minute of the movie where she says that.
Thank you.


"Cry for all those who choose light over darkness"

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I think that anyone who's seen Chronicles of Riddick (the sequel) will see that Riddick felt compassion for the survivors that got off the planet in Pitch Black, even though he definitely has this tough guy persona.

I'm sure the director wanted that scene to look ambiguous (like Riddick stabbed Fry at first), but it's obvious that he didn't and he respected her (plus it's not in his nature at all to do something so heinous).

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It also needs to be pointed out that his "Not for me, not for me..." isn't exactly shouted defiance. He basically mutters it, sitting there in the rain. If he had in fact yelled it, as has been stated, that would make him seem quite a bit more upset/disbelieving/heartbroken/shocked. But the director chose not to have him yell it.

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01:42:43
Fry-"i said i'd die for them, not you."

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though riddick is one mean bastard but he never killed anyone without a reason and i dont think he would've started to when he was barely walking from injury..not to mention she came back for him to to help him..so no reason to kill her at all..i went through that scene at least 100 times and the only emotion his face showed was stunned and shocked as he didnt expect it and the closure was (not for me) as he thought she didnt have to die for him...of all people HIM.

but ya i understand, i had the same discussion with my mother in law and i got so mad i felt to put a dead rat in her drink..

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I think the confusion over what happens in this scene stems from the fact that it was supposed to be ambiguous. There are a couple of seconds where you're not sure exactly what's happened. In my opinion both we the audience and the two characters are not completely sure what is happening.

I thought that this was a very interesting interpretation. In my opinion though it was the creature and not Riddick that killed Fry.

"I honestly assumed it was both, I thought he knew the creature was there (he can see them obviously) so he knew they would both be killed so he figured "better you then me" and cut her so the creatures would smell(or was it see?) the blood and get her then as she is pulled away and killed he feels bad. As for the not for me, i think he ment he did it for the oldman and the kid"

Also are you sure you could see the spike from the creature? All I remember is the creature flying off with her backwards with a claw or hand on the side of Fry's shoulders.

"If I'm laughing at what I think I am, its very funny"

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"But the director chose not to have him yell it."

He did yell it the second time.

"Also are you sure you could see the spike from the creature? All I remember is the creature flying off with her backwards with a claw or hand on the side of Fry's shoulders."

You're right and there is no spike. Riddicks expression is a look of knowing rather than shock. He knows what he's just done in my opinion. Remember the line "they know our blood"? I think that's the significance of the blood in the rain. However I could be wrong, but as has been said already, it's supposed to be ambiguous. We're having this conversation because David Twohy wanted us to.

"I've got a little itch. Down there. Would you mind?"

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Riddick stabbed her and then the creature got her, so the creature ultimately killed her.

Spider-Man 3 = The Best Movie In Three Years...If It Turns Out To Be Better Than Batman Begins

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Like I said in the other thread, I simply thought he positioned her as the alien went to strike at him thus saving his own skin. Carolyn wanted to redeem herself for choosing to dump all the passengers before the ship crashed, and Riddick gave her that chance.

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[deleted]

Actually the one that comes off looking like a complete moron is you. You can't post without insulting the intelligence of every other poster? Maybe you should watch the movie again with an open mind and the thought that there could be other possibilities. Your thought isn't the only intelligent thought in the world. And unless you're the writer you don't know for certain that thats what happened.

Also, everyone is watching the second movie and basing an opinion of Riddick on that. But, what you seem to be forgetting is that Pitch Black was made with no thought to a sequel. When they wrote Pitch Black they weren't thinking that maybe Riddick should be a little compassionate about people. Keep these things in mind when watching it.

Love is the adult version of Santa. And how do we know Santa didn't get stuck in the chimney?

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Right up until the very end I thought Riddick did it. But then on the ship on the way out he says something along the lines of "Riddick died on that planet", almost in a symbollic sense; and if by that he means the old Riddick, the asshat murderer Riddick, then he must feel like hes achieved some kind of salvation. He wouldnt be feeling salvation unless he felt like he did the right thing, something that would make him reborn.

But even now, I do have my doubts. Thats what I love about Pitch Black, that uncertainty about Riddicks character. Shame Chronicles was a loada *beep*

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I'm watching Pitch Black RIGHT NOW. So, to end all this bickering...

If you freeze frame when Riddick supposedly stabs her in the back, you can plainly see his knife is FLAT AGAINST HER BACK as she had been helping him back to the ship. He DID NOT STAB HER. The pause in the action is him realizing that she was trying to save him and she ended up sacrificing herself. She's also realizing that she had just told him she would die for "them" but not for him, yet she is now dying for him.

Instead of all this theorizing, why don't you all watch a movie and freeze frame something that you think you saw in order to verify it? You end up sounding completely ignorant about the movie...

Oh, and next time SAY *SPOILERS* IN YOUR HEADLINE!!! Some people haven't seen the movie before...

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Ok, just watched the offending scene again. There is no shot of the knife. You see his arm move, you hear the slash sound effect, shot of the blood dripping, he looks at her knowingly with a kind of "I'm sorry", and the creature takes her away, with another sound effect...

If the scene was that clear, it wouldn't have us arguing about it, so we're obviously all 'ignorant about the movie.'

And he slashes, not stabs. Why can't we just agree that it's deliberately ambiguous instead of trying to be the writer, eh? I'd rather believe that than have it be bad direction, wouldn't you?

Gruesome isn't he? Fumbles at your head like a freshman pulling on a panty girdle.

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He used her for bait.

1:34:42 - Shiv swipes as he lunges and misses her before falling onto the dumpster.

1:35:09 - "I said I'd die for them; not you. Let's move." Which was meant as "I made this commitment; you didn't." but taken as "You're not worth dying for."

1:35:16 - He _grunts_ at the effort as he stabs her. (His shiv is in his right hand which you can see on her shoulder. You see his left shoulder move as striking, he brings his right arm down -to the "sweet spot - 4th lumbar down just left of the spine for the abdominal aorta" (27:59).)

1:35:50 "Not for me. Not for me!" - he's bitter about her value judgement. (Watch his eyebrows at the first "me". See the bitterness as he spits it out? Not for _me_.) As if to say "I thought you could understand. When I only took a lock of your hair after hearing that you were ready to dump the passengers, I thought I had found a kindred soul; but alas..."

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For what its worth, the novelization indicates it was a creature:

"Come on, Riddick," she rasped in his ear. "I said I'd die for them -- not you!"
He managed to get his feet under him and with her help started walking back to the skiff....
A hard jolt staggered them both. Suddenly the clicking stopped.
In the drumming silence, Fry and Riddick found each other's eyes. They knew what had happened. Someone had been slashed from behind -- and was bleeding...
But who?

and the PITCH BLACK Screenplay, by David Twohy, Based on material by Ken and Jim Wheat, Revised First Draft 3/3/98
Fry coming down the dark alley, turning looking, calling...

FRY: Riddick?... Riddick?... Riddick!

A blade flashes by her face. She spots...

Riddick. He falls back behind a cargo box... He's bloody - both blue and red, gasping, struggling to get up again, to not be caught on the ground. He shows no recognition. His face is almost panicked as he stares...

Pan down Riddick's leg to...

Riddick's pant leg shredded, blood everywhere.

Fry rounds the box and gets her arms under his shoulder. Riddick is aware enough of her to accept her help.

FRY: I've got you. I've got you. Come on. Come on.

Fry strains to get Riddick to his feet.

FRY: C'mon, Riddick -- said I'd die for them, not you. Come on. Get up.

They get up, but Riddick's leg won't hold him. He collapses face down in the mud. He back is covered with bloody nicks and cuts. Ever aware of the danger Carolyn tries to help him again. He's not moving.

FRY: Get up! Get up! COME ON, RIDDICK! GET UP!

He manages to get to his feet with her help, but he's unsteady. He's leaning on her; she's staggering under his weight. It almost looks like they are dancers in a macabre waltz.

Something jolts them. Both react. ALL CLICKING STOPS.

EXTREME CLOSEUPS: Searching each other's eyes. Someone just got slashed bad. But who?

Long count.

Carolyn starts to look faint, but before either can react...

In an eyeblink she's gone, ripped from his arms. He tries to hold on but...

Her hand slips from his and...

RIDDICK'S POV: watches Carolyn pulled aloft into the darkness. There was no scream. No cry. No final words. Just...

Blackness.

RIDDICK: Not for me....

RIDDICK standing, collapses to the mud. Struggles effortfully to get up to all fours, looks upward.

RIDDICK: Not for me!
As close to a writer's opinion as we are going to get unless one pops in to visit.

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Ok, the novelisation was based on the screenplay, so I wouldn't call those seperate entities. I would say that the script doesn't make anything clear particularly and it all boils down to the way Twohy eventually decided to shoot it. My personal opinion is ambiguity all the way, but it could be the other, in which case it's just bad and unclear direction. I prefer the ambiguity. I think Twohy wanted discussions like this to rage!

But to be clear, I don't think anyone should be considered 'stupid' for thinking either way.

Gruesome isn't he? Fumbles at your head like a freshman pulling on a panty girdle.

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*Booming voice*
Who knows what intent lies in the hearts of directors...

... not the viewers *blink, blink*

LOL

I'll always vote for "the creatures did it." I'm just a sucker for a good redemption story.

But to be clear, I don't think anyone should be considered 'stupid' for thinking either way.

If I implied this in ANY way, I apologize profusely. I'll argue my point till I am blue in the face, but you are right. There is just enough ambiguity that neither point can be proven to the point of fact...

... but the creatures did do it .

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Nah, someone actually said it in so many words earlier. The truth is, this argument could go on for yonks, because no-one knows what lies in the hearts of directors (except maybe Lamont Cranston). It becomes perception more than fact, which I think is fine in a movie. Especially American Psycho. Mary Harron actually told Willem Dafoe to play different takes alternately as if he suspected and as if he was completely oblivious and cut them together to throw off the audience. That argument is still raging and I won't ruin it for you if you haven't see the movie...

Gruesome isn't he? Fumbles at your head like a freshman pulling on a panty girdle.

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No disrespect but why are you in denial about this? The ambiguity is only meant until it is shown that the creature takes her.

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see that's how i always viewed it...who was it who was going to die? Riddick or Fry? not if Riddick set up Fry to die. but i saw it last night for the first time in years and now i guess it's obvious that Fry was gonna get it. that being said, i'm pretty sure Riddick didn't stab her so that he could save himself. what's the point of him doing that if he's bleeding too?

Never rub another man's rhubarb

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