MovieChat Forums > Eyes Wide Shut (1999) Discussion > Who else loves Ziegler?

Who else loves Ziegler?

posted a year ago by Melton (5549)
17 replies | jump to latest

He seems like a warm and friendly older guy. A paternal figure. I like his casual look with the blue shirt with slightly rolled up sleeves and hairy wrists.

It’s funny when he’s chillaxing with his pool table while delivering bizarre Kubrickian dialogue like…

Ziegler: Bill, suppose I told you that... that everything that happened to you there... the threats, the girl's warnings, her last minute intervention, suppose I said that all of that... was staged. That it was a kind of charade. That it was fake.

Bill:  Fake?

Ziegler:  Yes. Fake.

🤣

Sydney Pollack is so normal seeming that it’s hilarious to see him strapping his braces over his topless hairy torso after balling that drugged out prostitute, and poor Bill has to see all this and help him out.

Then we have to imagine him at the orgy ceremony, no doubt boning another young woman while wearing a cloak and mask 🤣

I’m glad Pollack was cast after Keitel walked out. As much as I love Keitel, you can’t beat Pollack for the warm uncle with extreme dad-bod 👏🏻

[–] Seperatrix (1349) a year ago

I love Pollack in this role as well.

Though I have to be honest, whenever I think of Pollack the first thing I hear is his screaming . . .

"You were a tomato! A tomato doesn't have logic! A tomato can't move!"

[–] DaveBowman2001 (520) a year ago

Keitel also gifted us Apocalypse now. Thank you Harvey.

[–] bobbydallas (8681) a year ago

he was awesome

[–] Melton (5549) a year ago

I wish they’d made a Ziegler figurine 😌

[–] Heisenberg (6730) a year ago

Nope, hated him.
He embodies everything that is evil, and his portrayal has zero insight on that.
Actually made me lose some respect for Pollack and Kubrick, they almost seem to be on his slimy side.

[–] Melton (5549) a year ago

You wanted Ziegler to cackle more?

[–] Heisenberg (6730) a year ago

From a moralist like Kubrick I wanted something more than a super straight guy.
I get what they both were going for, I found it hateable and uninteresting. Pollack is not a genius actor, so I give him a pass on delivering just that. Kubrick should have known better.

You know, going back to your OP, I WISH I liked Ziegler. That would have been interesting had they played him super likeable. But no, he's just a straight monster.

[–] Melton (5549) a year ago

Well it sure as hell worked for me and everyone else here. Kubrick nailed it again.

I’m confident that you’ll come around to the Zieg ✊

[–] AP (5295) a year ago

What makes you think either of are on his side? His behavior is common in thrillers like this where a rich, powerful guy is just hanging out in mansion, giving warnings not to look further and it seems pretty realistic to me. When some rich and powerful people were up to no good, I don’t think they’re skulking in the shadows, laughing maniacally like a cartoon villain. They’re probably just hanging out at hime with the family, go to rich people parties and then do the shady stuff.

In fact, in lesser movies, when a character the audience thought was on the up-and-up is revealed to be evil, the character’s personality suddenly does a 180 and it’s always bad. It’s terrible writing.

[–] Heisenberg (6730) a year ago

His behavior is common in thrillers like this where a rich, powerful guy is just hanging out in mansion, giving warnings not to look further and it seems pretty realistic to me.

Precisely, it's a cliché. "Play the monster straight".
I've seen it a million times. Do something with it, goddamit.

And the nicety of his façade is what makes me think they kind of condone his faults because, deep down, they cinically admire an old man, rich and powerful, that fucks young girls on the side.

Look, as far as bad guys go, mr Milich seems more interesting to me as a character. Or even Sandor.

[–] AP (5295) a year ago

What nicety? He outright lies to, then threatens the main character. He is painted as nothing BUT a monster. You claiming Kubrick condoned that sort if thing is baseless.

And what exactly is the alternative beyond being realistic. Did you want to see Zeigler shouting, “The world shall be ours” while lightning strikes in the distance? It wouldn’t make any sense considering what we know about him.

[–] Heisenberg (6730) a year ago

Nope, he lies with a smile on his face and nice manners.
He "threatens" him like a friend.
That sort of nicety, you know.

He is not realistic, he is boring and superficially portrayed as an evil guy because he likes to do evil.
If anything, the bullshit example you wrote is more realistically motivated than this guy.

I think I exposed my critique on Ziegler quite clearly, and explained what better examples of bad guy are in the same film.

[–] AP (5295) a year ago

“ Nope, he lies with a smile on his face and nice manners.”

Yeah, when people lie, they tend to act nice and polite. Kinda defeats the purpose otherwise. And even then, his lies involve being nonchalant about the hooker that OD’d at his house, telling his friend that his buddies were playing head games to scare him and said the piano player deserved to get beaten up. Not exactly Mr Niceguy.

“ He "threatens" him like a friend.
That sort of nicety, you know”

I don’t know about your circle of friends but I never had any of mine threaten to kill me and my family.

It’s weird that you don’t want serious thrillers to be realistic though.

[–] Heisenberg (6730) a year ago

What is weird is you trying to put words in my mouth when what I said is written up here.

And Ziegler acts as nicely and politely as it gets.

[–] AP (5295) a year ago

Again, I’m not sure why you think he’s being polite. Can you give examples? The dude was gradually getting more and more hostile the whole way through except for the last two seconds of the clip when he gives a slight smile and pats Bill on the back:

https://youtu.be/NZVzxb7HOo4?si=tBXJRcbB_K95IKoT

[–] Melton (5549) 2 months ago

I love Zieg in his final scene. He’s actually really persuasive. Maybe Nick is fine and Mandy just ignored Bill’s advice on quitting drugs? Sounds plausible.

I mean, if the cult was that evil then surely they’d just rub out Bill as well and be done with it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[–] daredevil1 (241) a month ago

I would've preferred Keitel but he's a well written character, most anyone would be memorable in the role. The thing is Keitel is sort of like Walken or Dennis Hopper; his persona is so over-the-top or at least well defined that it would fit in well with the Grand Guignol dreamlike nature of the story. You wouldn't be sure if Zeigler is just a kooky eccentric or a depraved lunatic. Pollack was fine but he's a little too strait laced as an actor that there's no humor behind his casting. Yeah I guess it makes him creepier to some extent, but that just makes him seem guilty and remove the ambiguity. With Keitel everyone would still be arguing if he was a monster looking down at Bill, or if he genuinely liked him and he's just so rich that he's out of touch. When Pollack gets exasperated at him at the end for not buying his lie about the locked hotel room, I don't quite like it because it makes it clear that she was murdered and removes the gray area yes/no nature of the story. Keitel is the kind of character you could know in real life, and then have a dream about him and he fits in seamlessly. To the point where you'd misremember what was reality. Pollack in contrast is about as fun as a heart attack.