MovieChat Forums > The Postman (1997) Discussion > Why all American movies have the same me...

Why all American movies have the same message??

posted 18 years ago by sakura_alley
216 replies | jump to latest

I didn't expect much of this movie, because of the low rating on IMDB, but I enjoyed watching it a lot. I am fan of SF movies, especially Post-apocalyptic movies. And this movie had very nice atmosphere and I'd been entertained a lot whole time. I liked this movie much better than another similar movie of Mr. Costner - Waterworld. But, the ending was very disappointing. WHY all American movies must have a propagandistic message in their movies? Aren't they sick of it themselves? It's very nationalistic, I'd say way too much nationalistic. I think the movies would be much better without such propaganda. Anyone with same opinion? The scene of the statue was also too much. Terrible ending.

[–] arice204 18 years ago

SO, the guy basically saves civilization and it is to much to erect a statue of him?

Nationalistic? Well, we are Americans. Why would Americans make a movie set in some other country, where some other guy, not an American, saves that country. I doubt to many Americans would go see it.

How on earth was this movie propoganda?

A better question is why does every non American hate eveyrthing about America, except of course, our money and our military aid when they need it.

If anything this movie depicts what is bad, as well as good, about Americans.

WHy on earth do non Americans have to read so much into things. Your hatred for the greatest country on earth blinds you to the truth and causes you to see things that are not there.

By the way, why is your opinion more important or more right than that of the film maker? Maybe you aren't nationalistic enough. Example, you are going to totally disagree with what I have written. But isn't that exactly what you did to the filmaker. The difference is, I will speak my peace, but acknowledge your right to speak. You on the toher hand will continue on hhpocritically and gripe about us trying to propogandize everyone, yet you continue to do it yourself.

One mroe thing, if you are going to type and speak in English, learn how to do it properly. YOu totally butchered the language. Of course that is just my nationalistic opinion.

ANd do't come a knocking next time your country needs money or someone to fight your battles.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] millsy-uk 18 years ago

"Your hatred for the greatest country on earth blinds you to the truth and causes you to see things that are not there."

"One mroe thing, if you are going to type and speak in English, learn how to do it properly. YOu totally butchered the language. Of course that is just my nationalistic opinion."

"A better question is why does every non American hate eveyrthing about America, except of course, our money and our military aid when they need it."

Things like that?

Not talking about all Americans to be honest, as I have met some very nice Americans, and judging people from an internet site isn't really a good start anyway. But, realistically, many Americans come across as arrogant, ignorant and whiney.

By the way, your comment had a lot of spelling and grammar errors in it, I mean, if you're going to use the English language at least learn how to use it properly. Of course though, that's just my nationalistic opinion.

Jesus, grow up.

[–] jtylicki 18 years ago

<<<many Americans come across as arrogant, ignorant and whiney.>>>

Which is amazingly similar to the way many Americans view most Europeans. Its also the same way people from opposing political parties view each other. You aren't exactly treading on new ground here, milky.

[–] s_j_macon 18 years ago

And most British people would come off snobby and up their own arses if I were to use your line of judgement. A lot of non-Americans will jump on America based on what they are presented by the media of their countries. Then they will claim all Americans are ignorant. It's a bit ironic (that and the fact two native speakers butchered their own language).

America is a great country, it's not perfect and the "best" part is debatable at the very least. I love it because when it was founded it was expanded on some rather radical beliefs. Unfortunately, as with all good things, greedy buttholes came along and took over. They made my government into a walking nightmare. Still, I would be the first to get up and fight with every weapon that I own to defend her. I am proud to be patriotic, I just don't like the government's size and activities.

Yes we did liberate (and invade, sometimes the terms are hotly debated on which should be applied to such actions) quite a few countries, but for selfish reasons. All countries have done it at some point.

I haven't seen the movie, I heard it was so-so and usually have seen shows take jabs at it. However, every country will focus on itself when it comes to movies because (and this is a HUGE shocker) that's where their target audience will be. A startling revelation, I'm sure. Japan's animation (anime to the "cool" kids) and movies focus on...guess what, JAPAN! British sitcoms will usually have...British people, locations, and jokes in them. German commercials will generally have German people doing things that appeal to the German culture.

I take offense to the statement that other countries and their cultures are not taught in school, in fact I received plenty of education of World History (that was the name of the class, or actually classes) throughout my schooling.

Not all Americans are self-absorbed dimwits who want to make war everywhere and remind everyone how we did save their ass. It's just the sad fact loud mouths with neurotic tendencies will get more attention than a calm, intelligent person. A lot of us are trying to wrench our country out of the hands of idiots who somehow have a strangle hold on her.

I'd expect such suave, educated people to realize that. Yes that was sarcasm.

By the way Sakura, you are exactly what you are commenting about. In fact, more so because you assume all Americans are self-centered retards. You basically just did what you complained about by glorifying your country (which, by the way, has probably an even more dubious history than ours but you don't see me constantly reminding you, do you?) with your insults to Americans.

How about you come visit here and see that you are very wrong? I'd be happy to show you that America isn't all about being obnoxious morons.

[–] amg503 17 years ago

<< I haven't seen the movie, I heard it was so-so and usually have seen shows take jabs at it. However, every country will focus on itself when it comes to movies because (and this is a HUGE shocker) that's where their target audience will be. A startling revelation, I'm sure. Japan's animation (anime to the "cool" kids) and movies focus on...guess what, JAPAN! British sitcoms will usually have...British people, locations, and jokes in them. German commercials will generally have German people doing things that appeal to the German culture. >>

Well said.

"I WILL put you in the dirt!" - Jonas Blaine

[–] vjmailservice 15 years ago

ha,did know people everywhere are the same, with little change in behaviour, to adjust to the climate and beliefs.

I've read many comments on the internet pages , mostly on the movie pages, and there seems to be a war about cultures always.

Wanted to thank you for a very level headed comment.

as you say

It's just the sad fact loud mouths with neurotic tendencies will get more attention than a calm, intelligent person.

yup, its the same everywhere.loud mouths get more exposure.

[–] AnotherSchmoe 14 years ago

And most British people would come off snobby and up their own arses if I were to use your line of judgement. A lot of non-Americans will jump on America based on what they are presented by the media of their countries. Then they will claim all Americans are ignorant. It's a bit ironic (that and the fact two native speakers butchered their own language).

America is a great country, it's not perfect and the "best" part is debatable at the very least. I love it because when it was founded it was expanded on some rather radical beliefs. Unfortunately, as with all good things, greedy buttholes came along and took over. They made my government into a walking nightmare. Still, I would be the first to get up and fight with every weapon that I own to defend her. I am proud to be patriotic, I just don't like the government's size and activities.

Yes we did liberate (and invade, sometimes the terms are hotly debated on which should be applied to such actions) quite a few countries, but for selfish reasons. All countries have done it at some point.

I haven't seen the movie, I heard it was so-so and usually have seen shows take jabs at it. However, every country will focus on itself when it comes to movies because (and this is a HUGE shocker) that's where their target audience will be. A startling revelation, I'm sure. Japan's animation (anime to the "cool" kids) and movies focus on...guess what, JAPAN! British sitcoms will usually have...British people, locations, and jokes in them. German commercials will generally have German people doing things that appeal to the German culture.

I take offense to the statement that other countries and their cultures are not taught in school, in fact I received plenty of education of World History (that was the name of the class, or actually classes) throughout my schooling.

Not all Americans are self-absorbed dimwits who want to make war everywhere and remind everyone how we did save their ass. It's just the sad fact loud mouths with neurotic tendencies will get more attention than a calm, intelligent person. A lot of us are trying to wrench our country out of the hands of idiots who somehow have a strangle hold on her.

I'd expect such suave, educated people to realize that. Yes that was sarcasm.

By the way Sakura, you are exactly what you are commenting about. In fact, more so because you assume all Americans are self-centered retards. You basically just did what you complained about by glorifying your country (which, by the way, has probably an even more dubious history than ours but you don't see me constantly reminding you, do you?) with your insults to Americans.

How about you come visit here and see that you are very wrong? I'd be happy to show you that America isn't all about being obnoxious morons.

Well said. As an American myself, I am often deeply disgusted by the overbearing/warmongering/criminal nature of the modern government, of the fast-food culture, of materialism run rampant, and most of all by the blind bellicosity and jingoism prevalent in so many Americans, but the fact is that all of these things are only a part, not the whole. In a general sense, America is a beautiful and wonderful country with many equally beautiful and wonderful people, you just won't hear about them because people love to focus on the negative, it's human nature, and the most arrogant people are always the loudest, whereas the quiet folk tend to keep to themselves. This is far from a perfect country, and I would never consider calling it "the best", as we have far too many problems, but it's far, far from the worst, and not nearly as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.

http://www.youtube.com/anotherschmoe

[–] mcadwell 13 years ago

Perfectly said and I thank you. :)

[–] blake_mooney8-1 18 years ago

"Your hatred for the greatest country on earth blinds you to the truth and causes you to see things that are not there."

-------------------------

Ignorrance and arrogance in its truest form. Yes I mean YOU, not the original poster. I am so fcking SICK of all the blind patriotism that goes on these days. Governments don't care about you people, WAKE UP.

And I completely agree with the OP.

[–] savaslikesmovies 13 years ago

Exactly what I thought of that response. Irony that the OP gets a reply like that.

[–] trumpetkyle1 17 years ago

Why are you telling Jesus to grow up??...:)

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sakura_alley 18 years ago

Thank you for your reply. I hope my reply written in "improper English" will be understandable for you. I doubt you would understand any of my own language, so there is not any other way to communicate with others at IMDB (which I hope is not only for native English speakers), than using my bad English, sorry.

First of all, I do enjoy American movies. I'm not so self concentrated to watch only movies made in my country or in Europe. I want to see many things, I want to learn about many things. So I want to see, besides others, movies made in America too. So I just wanted to say, that from my view of point, such nationalism or patriotism in movies is unneeded. I don't see anything bad that the guy in Postman liked his country, but hey, it's not the most important stuff in the world (more is the relationship between people). What I want to say is, that American movies would be much more accepted overseas, if they were not so self-concentrated. But that's probably impossible, because that's how Americans are. I heard that at school, they hardly learn history of other countries or even learn anything about other countries.

Yes, United States are the greatest country, as for economical and military power. Other than that, nothing is greater there than anyplace else. All countries have many nice things and also many bad things. You shoould learn about them too.

Well, whole your post is very self-centered and egoistic, as I expect all Americans to be. But that's OK. Can't be changed. But I didn't want to insult Americans as people. I just wanted to say, that what foreign people think about patriotism in American movies and that the movies would be much more enjoyable without them for foreign viewers.

[–] jtylicki 18 years ago

<<<Well, whole your post is very self-centered and egoistic, as I expect all Americans to be.>>>

Ahhh, the joys of irony.

[–] sakura_alley 18 years ago

arice204 wrote:

"ANd do't come a knocking next time your country needs money or someone to fight your battles."

So what is it then, if not egoism and haughtiness???

[–] jtylicki 18 years ago

Look at the second part of your sentence (in the previous response). If you still don't catch the hypocrisy, I'm not sure how much more I can add.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] sakura_alley 18 years ago

My country doesn't fight any battles. But US uses our men to fight for them (now in Afghanistan). That's REALITY. You know nothing about my country.

[–] tcoon4 17 years ago

This is stupid. The film is aimed at an American audience so the "American Propaganda" angle is justified. If I am watching a film made in Britain or Australia and it is pro British or Aussie it does not bother me at all. I think being proud of what you are is great. I think that some of the people that whine about American movies being to pro American are a bit over the top. There are plenty of Anti-American movies out there to watch if you chose to that are made in the USA.

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

Idiot...

[–] Chastaen 18 years ago

>>Well, whole your post is very self-centered and egoistic, as I expect all Americans to be. <<

Keep in mind this statement is made by the same person that watched an American made movie and then complained that it was about Americans.

Is it the same for Indians and "Saagar"?

What about the French and Le Pacte des loups?

The Germans and Das Boot?

>>What I want to say is, that American movies would be much more accepted overseas, if they were not so self-concentrated. But that's probably impossible, because that's how Americans are<<

Odd that you want Americans to make movies for you instead of them. I guess that would he how YOU are, then? You show the exact same "failures" in your action that you wish to attribute to the typical American...maybe you will one day realize it is a failure of Man and not Americans.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sakura_alley 18 years ago

I DO enjoy American movies (not all of them, but many). And I like to see them, if they seem interesting to me. I know US only from movies, that's right. I have never been there. But I want to see the movies anyway. I don't hate US. Just I want to say, that as a foreigner, who goes to see US movies, would prefer plain story about apocalyptic US, without any politics. That kind of movie would be more enjoyable for me. If not for American viewers, that's too sad. For the postman and other people in the movie, US and the President were the most important. For me, as a woman, maybe it would be my family and friends, my beloved ones. Most European movies have the message of relationship among common people, but many movies from US have the political (nationalistic) message. Just I don't like this about American movies. Movies from my country don't have such message in them, and I'm glad about that. And I truly love my country, though. But mentality of US people and European are different, that can't be changed. We don't put politics and nationalism everywhere.

[–] flammenbringer 17 years ago

> But mentality of US people and European are different, that can't be changed. We don't put politics and nationalism everywhere.

Now this sounds like a rather poor attempt to joke. Where exactly do you come from, for I've never heard of a European people that doesn't stress the importance of its nation, besides these submissive Germans that do hate their nation whole-heartedly.

Servus

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

That was a bigoted, ethnocentric statement if ever there was one.

You have America like the guy who just bragged on about America being the greatest country in the world, and yet you criticise him and not the person who said that ridiculous statement?

You're all idiots! You all claim not to be the same stereotypical ignorant idiot, yet you wouldn't say that if you were that different! Stupid ****ing moron...

When someone insults Australians for being racists or other such assorted stuff, I don't act like you and nor do I say "We're not all the same". Let your words act as your defence for your individual and not this tired cliche comeback I keep hearing from you all.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

If we're all idiots, then just imagine what that makes you.

Brilliant comeback, genius! How is that supposed to make any sense?

If the Australians don't like the Americans, then surely they must be smart enough and enterprising enough to make their own version of IMDB, where they can pat themselves on the back for their imaginary superiority all day long.

Did I say or imply anything of the sort, you liar? I said your cliche comebacks of how "we're not all the same" is tiresome when the mere fact you even say that is because you're not willing to admit America is a schithole.

And surely the subject line of this thread reveals the depth of the asinine ignorance that exists out there.

Noone just says that, all right? Noone just says Americans are arrogant fools unless there were an element of truth to it. Are you aware of that? And noone I've known in my country acts as patriotic as anyone from America I've talked to.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

What I said doesn't imply I possess an exceptional intellect; it merely says you're too childish to accept the obvious about America.

I don't think when the OP said meant "every single American film in existence". It was just a figurative way of saying a substantial amount of films that come from the US are incredibly patriotic to the point of silliness.

If you're not all like this stereotypical image been put out there, then stop saying "we're not all like that......prick" and reveal how ashamed you are. That's all I'm trying to say.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

Yes, how childish of me to presume it is not true that "All American movies have the same message," and how wise and superior of you to carry that banner ;-)

You're childish to not come out and admit the rest of the world may be right about America. I don't really think we're ignorant of your culture; especially when it's forced down the throats of nearly every single person on this planet.

Right, sure...what the OP said was, "Why all American movies have the same message." But, hey, if you don't think we should take the poster at his word, then who am I to disagree? ;-)

Yes, do try to explain to readers using your self-appointed superior "cosmopolitan" perspective what the OP really "meant." ;-)

Sorry, but I really don't think for a second you thought of anything other than what I just suggested. You exaggerated it because I feel you just want to be a self-righteous phillistine for the sake of it.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

Do you even know what is meant by the word "childish"? It's a deliberate irrational mentality to things by most standards; like a child. You are displaying that by your needless attack on the OP. How am I adolscent for getting angry with your eagerness to block out reality? That doesn't make any sense.

Continue with your poor attempt at dodging the inevitable.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

Your lemming-like anti-American stupidity.

Says the brainwashed hypocrite, who chucks a tantrum at the mere thought of dissent. Who are you to accuse anyone of being a lemming, you juvenile halfwit?

Yes, I am using an American made, owned and operated website to conversate with you. And? What does have to do with me condemning Americans for being childish? Is that the best you can come up with?

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

Oh, you're so stupid and pathetic! "American ingenuity and creativity"? You know and Englishman invented the web, you wanker?

"Emotional rants"? Why don't you take a look in the mirror for once in your life, or is it stupidity that makes you unable to self-reflect?

And what is this bollocks about foreigners coming over and choosing to be citizens? What does this have to do with what I'm talking about whatsoever? Why are you making stupid strawmen?

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

I said the "web"; not the internet. There is a difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

Was it not clear to you that I was saying the USA is full of self-righteously condescending and unintelligent patriotic braggarts, just like you, and NOT that America can't have its geniuses?

Now if you want to change the subject again, then this conversation is at an end. I don't want to talk to an insecure idiot. No offence...

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] hadmatter 14 years ago

Pardon me for saying so, but you are losing your grip on reality.

"starting"?

You are starting to spew mindless and meaningless propaganda without giving any thought to what it means.

Actually, he's been doing that for years, and his arguments have never gotten any better.
As a point of interest, Aidan has never been to America, and his entire experience of interactions with Americans is restricted to boards like these and, more significantly, video games. The actual reason that Aidan hates Americans is because American teenagers are really mean to him when he plays video games. He then extrapolated the behavior of thirteen-year-old gamers to represent the attitudes of each and every person in the country.

That's why he has to preemptively inform everyone that "we are not all the same" is an invalid argument (he insists that it's invalid, although of course he can't produce a reason for this, because no legitimate reason exists). He knows that his generalities are completely unfounded.

Check his posting history. He travels from board to board, either starting anti-American rants, or hijacking other threads and turning them into anti-American rants. He's also particularly fond of attacking posters who use the word "ass" which, for reasons unknown, causes Aidan to have massive sand in his vagina.
Additionally, he blames America for the prevalent use of the word ass.

For even more fun, try googling him. You can find him on attention-seeking rants on message boards all over the internet, and they're all anti-America and anti-"ass" rants. Pretty funny. He even has his own Wiki entry about what an emo troll he is.

And if you engage him for too long, he starts to threaten suicide, which is one of his weirder tactics.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

You see, Ironclad? This is how far your countrymen are willing to go in order to defend your country: stalking me across the board because of their own insecurity and lack of respect for themselves.

You should be ashamed of yourself to mob with this kind of person.

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

I guess it was only a matter of time before you showed up.

What's the matter? Can't admit when you're angry? You must be after this tiresome crusade you're still trying to wage.

No, better just say how you're out to annoy me, even when it slipped how you're angry I condemn America...

Yes, I go across the internet and IMDB ranting about America and the slang words. I don't even deny that. And as for that "emo" thing when I was trying to do my wikipedia profile - "Emo" is a word said by idiots, mostly Americans, who can't handle pessimism. And when I see a psychotic little idiot like you, I don't really blame myself for being pessimistic about humans and the world. If you're a "good American", then God, I'd hate to see the bad one. Really, you just have nothing going for you. "Threatening suicide" was just pulled out of nowhere, so we'll ignore that one.

You can't come out like a man and admit how I annoy you, even when it's clear because you're a weakling who has to resort to these tactics, aren't you?

Because, let's face it: You are kind of weak to follow someone around to simply annoy someone. What are you going to accomplish?

Let's say we take your lie about how I'm a "powderkeg" seriously, discarding the fact you're an even bigger "powderkeg" for stalking me. You actually think you need to resort to stalking me, telling me how you like to annoy me when I ask how we can resolve this and outright lying about how you aren't angry with me about how I condemn Americans for their macho silliness and patriotism?

That just speaks volumes more about you than me.

And worst of all, you call me a homophobe because I criticise your placid nature to real homophobes correlating something poor with homosexuality. This is something other homosexuals have criticised, and this just proves you're an insecure halfwit. The less self-righteous homosexuals would rightly condemn you for embarassing them. I'm a really open person, so I'll tell you: I would really like to get sodomised and do blowjobs. I think about it all the time and I probably will do it eventually. You really think a homophobe says that?

You're an utterly...utterly...pathetic person. There is absolutely no reasoning with such a horrible person. And yes, I wish you would die. I don't find myself mentally ill for saying such a thing, because you cause mental illness in anyone who possesses intelligence. I would actually feel pretty good to see filth like you crying like a little child while totally vanishing from this earth for good.

So...? Are you going to keep stalking me and resorting to this crap, or are we going to settle this finally? Or are you just too much of a weakling to do that? If you aren't strong enough, then you really need to start admitting you have some problems.

You obviously...are not happy.

[–] hadmatter 14 years ago

No, better just say how you're out to annoy me, even when it slipped how you're angry I condemn America...

Making up lies does not help your case, cutie-pie.

Yes, I go across the internet and IMDB ranting about America and the slang words. I don't even deny that. And as for that "emo" thing when I was trying to do my wikipedia profile - "Emo" is a word said by idiots, mostly Americans, who can't handle pessimism. And when I see a psychotic little idiot like you, I don't really blame myself for being pessimistic about humans and the world.

If you say so. I don't actually know anything about current slang, I just read it off of your wikipedia page.

If you're a "good American", then God, I'd hate to see the bad one. Really, you just have nothing going for you.

Who are you quoting?

"Threatening suicide" was just pulled out of nowhere, so we'll ignore that one.

Ignore it all you want, but you have gone on and on about killing yourself. I pretty much ignored you too.

You can't come out like a man and admit how I annoy you, even when it's clear because you're a weakling who has to resort to these tactics, aren't you?

Nope. You know Aidan, you might actually find it possible to develop sane and civil relationships with other people if you modified one specific aspect of your behavior. You need to stop telling other people why they do things. Your entire relationship with the outside world seems to be predicated on your assignation of character traits and motivations to other people. You then treat them accordingly, even though your assumptions about those traits and motivations are usually flawed. When those people attempt to correct you on those assumptions, you insist that they are lying. Over and over again. Like right now.

Because, let's face it: You are kind of weak to follow someone around to simply annoy someone. What are you going to accomplish?

Nothing. The internet is not for accomplishing things. This an entertainment site. I am here to entertain myself. Why are you here?

You actually think you need to resort to stalking me, telling me how you like to annoy me when I ask how we can resolve this

I think no such thing. And you have never asked to resolve anything.

and outright lying about how you aren't angry with me about how I condemn Americans for their macho silliness and patriotism?

And here we go again. You cannot expect to "resolve" anything when you have already decided how other people feel and you call them liars when they don't agree with you.

And worst of all, you call me a homophobe because I criticise your placid nature to real homophobes correlating something poor with homosexuality.

I cannot decipher this sentence.

This is something other homosexuals have criticised, and this just proves you're an insecure halfwit. The less self-righteous homosexuals would rightly condemn you for embarassing them

What on earth are you on about?

I'm a really open person, so I'll tell you: I would really like to get sodomised and do blowjobs. I think about it all the time and I probably will do it eventually. You really think a homophobe says that?

That's fine. I still don't understand why you're telling me this.

You're an utterly...utterly...pathetic person. There is absolutely no reasoning with such a horrible person

There is absolutely no reasoning with a person like you, Aidan. How can reason be achieved when you refuse to listen to what other people say? I tell you how I feel, you call me a liar. I tell you my opinion about something, you call me a liar. This is not about me, Aidan. This is about your inability to communicate rationally or share information.

And yes, I wish you would die.

Right, but I'm the pathetic, horrible person?

I don't find myself mentally ill for saying such a thing, because you cause mental illness in anyone who possesses intelligence. I would actually feel pretty good to see filth like you crying like a little child while totally vanishing from this earth for good.

This is why you don't have friends, Aidan. If you would actually interact and communicate, you probably wouldn't feel like that all the time. Your tendency to let completely meaningless things twist you into knots is ultimately going to kill you.

So...? Are you going to keep stalking me and resorting to this crap, or are we going to settle this finally?

I don't know what you want to "settle", Aidan, but until you stop calling me a liar and trying to tell me what I think, no. You cannot achieve any sort of accord if you are unwilling to entertain the notion that maybe, just maybe, other people know themselves better than you know them.

Or are you just too much of a weakling to do that? If you aren't strong enough, then you really need to start admitting you have some problems.

You obviously...are not happy.

Do you want me to mail you a mirror?

I am the sod-off shotgun.

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

I don't know what you want to "settle", Aidan, but until you stop calling me a liar and trying to tell me what I think, no. You cannot achieve any sort of accord if you are unwilling to entertain the notion that maybe, just maybe, other people know themselves better than you know them.

You follow me around, make up some crap like how I "threaten suicide" and playing dumb when I remember you saying I was homophobic, and then you're annoyed with how I call you a "liar"? Are you serious? And telling you what you think? You kept saying, like a little child from school, how you enjoy annoying me. What am I supposed to gather from that other than you're in dire need of growing up?

I have tried to resolve this with you on the forum and in PM, and then you say I'm obssessed with you and that you don't want to resolve anything. If you're ignorant of that, then you must have a mental illness, and a penchant for pathologically lying.

You don't want to agree with me about America, and that's fine, Hadmatter. Do you actually think, though, that what you're doing is making you look anything other than a lunatic?

There is no reasoning with you at all. IMDB needs to include a profile block along with the ignore list. I really don't want you stalking me anymore.

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

You see? I can't argue with someone as stupid as you.

Your country is way over due for an atomic bomb. People as stupid and brainwashed as you shouldn't exist.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

Yeah, you are stupid. You can't even argue any of your points without resorting to changing the subject and other tools to avoid answering anything.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] hadmatter 14 years ago

You follow me around, make up some crap like how I "threaten suicide"

Which you discussed multiple times on the Kick Ass board.

and playing dumb when I remember you saying I was homophobic,

I didn't "play dumb", I just didn't respond because I am bored with that conversation.

and then you're annoyed with how I call you a "liar"?

I'm not annoyed. I am giving you a piece of advice. You wanted to know how we could "settle" this, whatever "this" is. I'm just telling you that an important first step to settling this - or settling anything - would be to actually listen to what the other person is saying, instead of TELLING THEM how they feel.

And telling you what you think? You kept saying, like a little child from school, how you enjoy annoying me.

I do.

What am I supposed to gather from that other than you're in dire need of growing up?

Well, "other than" that, you decided it meant that I was a weakling, a patriot (!?), a very sad person, et cetera. You used the fact that I enjoy annoying you, little powderkeg, to bolster the image of me that you require in order to sustain your hatred. If that's what you need, then fine, but don't pretend that you actually know me. Because I am more than willing to share any information about myself, real information, true information. But when you receive true information, you call it a lie if it doesn't jive with your preconceptions.

I have tried to resolve this with you on the forum and in PM

You have not. You have repeatedly INFORMED ME of my own feelings, which is nothing like trying to achieve a resolution.

If you're ignorant of that, then you must have a mental illness, and a penchant for pathologically lying.

Perhaps you should go back and read your own words.

You don't want to agree with me about America, and that's fine, Hadmatter.

You're right, I don't. Nor do I agree with anyone who expresses a single, sweeping opinion about the entire citizenship of any country. Millions of people cannot be characterized by one set of traits. Your "opinions" about America are about as valid as saying that "All Asians are good at math" or "All Australians are criminals".

Do you actually think, though, that what you're doing is making you look anything other than a lunatic?

Yes. I think that expressing the belief that individual people have individual character traits does not make me look like a lunatic.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

Which you discussed multiple times on the Kick Ass board.

I have never said anything about suicide on IMDB. Ever. You know you're lying.

I didn't "play dumb", I just didn't respond because I am bored with that conversation.

What on earth are you on about?

That was you playing dumb.

I'm not annoyed. I am giving you a piece of advice. You wanted to know how we could "settle" this, whatever "this" is. I'm just telling you that an important first step to settling this - or settling anything - would be to actually listen to what the other person is saying, instead of TELLING THEM how they feel.

I have given you your chance to explain yourself, and you do naught but go on about you want to annoy me. You are an idiot...

I do.

Yes, because you're weak, immature, fragile and insecure...and also a pathological liar.

Well, "other than" that, you decided it meant that I was a weakling, a patriot (!?), a very sad person, et cetera. You used the fact that I enjoy annoying you, little powderkeg, to bolster the image of me that you require in order to sustain your hatred.

You, little weakling, are unable to grasp that you are the "powderkeg".

You follow me around because you are easy to anger, and this is your feeble attempt at getting revenge...because you can't be a man and come out, plainly and simple, how exactly I'm wrong.

And YOU are supposed to be mature? What a laugh! Sometimes...I wish there really were moderators on IMDB. I could stomach toning down my vitriol just so that you would be banned for stalking me.

If that's what you need, then fine, but don't pretend that you actually know me. Because I am more than willing to share any information about myself, real information, true information. But when you receive true information, you call it a lie if it doesn't jive with your preconceptions.

I WILL tell what you are if you continue to harass me and insult my intelligence with your petulant bullschit, yes. Because it doesn't take a genius to understand you're an insecure idiot with this "powderkeg" routine.

"Powderkeg"? Is that all you have?! You're nothing without your stupid lie, aren't you?

You have not. You have repeatedly INFORMED ME of my own feelings, which is nothing like trying to achieve a resolution.

You lying bastard! I have sent you a PM before to ask why you are doing this, and you said you want to annoy me, along with some disgusting proclamation about how I'm obssessed with you.

If you can't come out now with what it is that you think I'm wrong about, you are a weakling who can't do anything but harass someone, instead of proving your point.

Perhaps you should go back and read your own words.

Wanting to kill you is in no way, shape or form anything comparable to pathologically lying and pretending things did and did not happen. At least I have a firm grip on reality, nor do I possess the psychological weaknesses you display with your tactics.

Like lying about how I want to commit suicide over a forum...

You're right, I don't. Nor do I agree with anyone who expresses a single, sweeping opinion about the entire citizenship of any country. Millions of people cannot be characterized by one set of traits. Your "opinions" about America are about as valid as saying that "All Asians are good at math" or "All Australians are criminals".

So does this mean you're finally going to make an argument without trying to pretend that you're here for some lame attempt at sadism?

You know the thing is...I don't actually care if anyone says "All Australians are criminals", and any other Australian with a decent level of intellect would laugh at that. Yes, a lot of Australians used to be criminals, but we obviously are all past that now. I don't particularly like my country, but we are one of the most developed countries in the world, nearly equalling Norway.

But Americans...are different. They get extremely defensive over anything criticising their country. They, more than any other people I've seen, throw themselves into a box and treat any sort of cultural criticism as a personal insult. So they do it to themselves most of all.

If you were so individual and free, then why would you get offended at a generalisation of America? Have you even questioned that?

Until you realise that, you will never understand why I abhor so many Americans. You think this is just over some kids in a computer game? But even so, you fail to realise in a game like World of Warcraft, you get to socialise and know people from a country more. I like many Americans, but most of them, in my opinion, are very brainwashed, childish and insecure. I am learning to realise I'm not going to make them see their ways, just like I can't with you or this bloke, so I'm giving this up.

But just as you feverishly make your views on homosexuality; why couldn't I make statements on America? This solidifies you are an *beep* to me, for your hypocritical and self-righteous double standards.

Yes. I think that expressing the belief that individual people have individual character traits does not make me look like a lunatic.

Then why get offended at all at myself saying that Americans are juvenile and brainwashed? And to me, they are. A very large portion are like this. This is one of the only ways I can release steam about it. If you were telling the truth that you possess a strong individual, then you would not have started this and you would feel proud to go beyond defining yourself from the country you grew up in.

Why do you lump yourself into a box like the others do?

[–] hadmatter 14 years ago

I have never said anything about suicide on IMDB. Ever. You know you're lying.

I know you're lying. Which is pretty easy for you to do, since your terrible attitude and aggressive posting style led to that entire thread being deleted.

What on earth are you on about?

That was you playing dumb.

Nope, that was me expressing my usual inability to decipher what you were trying to say. You'll notice that the response was not about anyone's use of the word "homophobe". I quoted exactly the portion of your post to which I was responding.

I have given you your chance to explain yourself, and you do naught but go on about you want to annoy me. You are an idiot...

Really? This is what I said: "I'm not annoyed. I am giving you a piece of advice. You wanted to know how we could "settle" this, whatever "this" is. I'm just telling you that an important first step to settling this - or settling anything - would be to actually listen to what the other person is saying, instead of TELLING THEM how they feel."

Where in that response did I "go on about" how I "want to annoy" you?

This is why I call you a liar who refuses to actually read the content of the post to which you are responding. Kind of ironic, since this paragraph you're completely ignoring is about the fact that you refuse to listen to what people are actually telling you.

Yes, because you're weak, immature, fragile and insecure...and also a pathological liar.

So, am I lying about the fact that I enjoy annoying you? Try to make a little sense once in a while, little powderkeg.

You, little weakling, are unable to grasp that you are the "powderkeg".

You follow me around because you are easy to anger, and this is your feeble attempt at getting revenge...

Nope, I just like to check in with you every few weeks, to make sure you haven't offed yourself.

because you can't be a man and come out, plainly and simple, how exactly I'm wrong.

Please rewrite this so that it contains information and not just words.

And YOU are supposed to be mature? What a laugh!

Who said I was supposed to be mature? Mature is boring. I have fun.

Sometimes...I wish there really were moderators on IMDB. I could stomach toning down my vitriol just so that you would be banned for stalking me.

You could always leave. Or stop acting like such a twat.

I WILL tell what you are if you continue to harass me and insult my intelligence with your petulant bullschit, yes.

And you will always be wrong. If you like being wrong, then keep it up. If you would prefer to accomplish something, then try talking to people like human beings, instead, and respect the fact that other people are not all exactly like you.

Because it doesn't take a genius to understand you're an insecure idiot with this "powderkeg" routine.

You're absolutely right. A genius would know better.

"Powderkeg"? Is that all you have?! You're nothing without your stupid lie, aren't you?

If you want to convince people that you aren't a powderkeg, then screaming at me in boldface is probably the wrong tactic.

Wanting to kill you is in no way, shape or form anything comparable to pathologically lying and pretending things did and did not happen.

Who made that comparison?

At least I have a firm grip on reality, nor do I possess the psychological weaknesses you display with your tactics.

Wrong on the first count. You believe that all citizens of each country display identical character traits, and you treat them accordingly. That is about as far from reality as you can get, and implies that your interactions with actual human beings are extremely limited.

Like lying about how I want to commit suicide over a forum...

That's not what I said. You talked about suicide several times, but I never said it was "over a forum".

So does this mean you're finally going to make an argument without trying to pretend that you're here for some lame attempt at sadism?

Finally? Try "again". I have made this argument to you OVER AND OVER again. You got the Kick Ass thread deleted, but the entire South Park thread is still there. And this is a point which made many times in that thread as well, but you simply ignore it.

You know the thing is...I don't actually care if anyone says "All Australians are criminals", and any other Australian with a decent level of intellect would laugh at that. Yes, a lot of Australians used to be criminals, but we obviously are all past that now. I don't particularly like my country, but we are one of the most developed countries in the world, nearly equalling Norway.

But Americans...are different. They get extremely defensive over anything criticising their country. They, more than any other people I've seen, throw themselves into a box and treat any sort of cultural criticism as a personal insult. So they do it to themselves most of all.

And there you go again. All Americans are the same. You are such a hypocrite, Aidan.

If you were so individual and free, then why would you get offended at a generalisation of America? Have you even questioned that?

Actually, I have addressed this with you several times, as well. The first point is, "I'm not". I'm not offended at the generalisation of Americans. I just think it's a waste of time, because any generalisation of an entire citizenship is completely inaccurate, so why bother? It doesn't make sense. You accomplish nothing.

Until you realise that, you will never understand why I abhor so many Americans.

I already know.

You think this is just over some kids in a computer game?

Yes I do.

But even so, you fail to realise in a game like World of Warcraft, you get to socialise and know people from a country more.

Whatever. It's a game. It's not real, Aidan, and doesn't accurately represent real people. It represent the anonymous behavior of the small cross-section of people who happen to enjoy that kind of game.

I like many Americans, but most of them, in my opinion, are very brainwashed, childish and insecure.

Yes, since most of the gamers are, essentially, children.

I am learning to realise I'm not going to make them see their ways, just like I can't with you or this bloke, so I'm giving this up.

Finally.

Then why get offended at all at myself saying that Americans are juvenile and brainwashed?

I don't. I just find it frustrating that you would prefer to be wrong than to learn something truthful.

And to me, they are. A very large portion are like this.

Maybe. But you wouldn't know, because A) you only know the gamers and B) you do not listen to other people, so you cannot possibly know what they are really like. Since the very first time we interacted, Aidan, you have been telling me what I think and telling me how I feel. This has been your MO with every poster I have seen you interacting with on these boards. You cannot know what "a very large portion" of anybody is like, because you never give them the opportunity to reveal themselves to you, and you do not hear, understand, or empathise with them. Not really. You decide how they are, and you treat them accordingly.

If you were telling the truth that you possess a strong individual, then you would not have started this and you would feel proud to go beyond defining yourself from the country you grew up in.

I do no such thing. I am an American, but as I have told you (and as you have refused to hear, over and over again) I have no particular love for my country. It is merely an accident of birth. I didn't pick it. I just deal with it because this is where I was born and raised, where my family and my partner live, and where my business is located. I am always quick to criticize America and my opinions of American people can be as low as yours. The difference is that my opinions are based on real life interactions with a variety of American citizens whom I see every day. And though I often find them to be horrible people and can certainly be ashamed to lumped into the same category as them, I do not believe them to be all the same. I can hate as hard as you can, Aidan, but if I hate ten people then I will hate them each for their own individual reasons, and not because I have conveniently placed them under a heading where they are easy to label and dismiss.

Why do you lump yourself into a box like the others do?

You're the one lumping me into a box, Aidan. And I don't know why you do it. You'll have to ask yourself that question.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

[–] Aidan_Mclaren 14 years ago

I have never, and will never, threaten to kill myself. You're just a weakling who's willing to jump at some idiot's lies in order to get off...that you can't make a counter argument. I mean, what kind of a person does that on a forum?

If you actually think you need to defend your country, let alone with petulant remarks, then you have low self-esteem.

And it's "Aidan McLaren". Spell it right, there's a good chap.

Goodbye.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] nnewel 16 years ago

This got into quite the debate! Sakura you rock, thanks for your mature commentary. The Postman... cool concept, terrible script and acting. Way too patriotic.

[–] pninson 15 years ago

As an American, I love my country. I was brought up on tales of Paul Revere and Bunker Hill, and I grew up admiring people like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson.

I still love my country, although that doesn't mean I like everything about it, or indeed, everyone that lives here. There are some 250,000,000 Americans, so obviously we don't think alike, talk alike, look alike, or act alike. But that's one of the things I love about this country.

It doesn't mean I don't love other countries too. I've lived in England and France, and spent time in about 15 nations altogether. I love Japanese culture and French culture and Spanish culture and I love their languages (to the extent that I can understand them).

I have also seen a lot of non-American films in my time. Yes, it seems American films like to sound the themes of patriotism, but in "The Postman" I think what we're seeing is simply an idea for people to build hope on. Fundamental American values are universal. Most people want to be free, but they also want to work together to preserve their freedom.

The Postman isn't exactly subtle, but if you're brought up in the USA, its message tugs at your heart strings. I believe the ideals embodied in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution are things that all people aspire to: the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We certainly don't live up to those high ideals all the time, or even most of the time, but darn it if we don't keep trying.

We report, you decide; but we decide what to report.

[–] alerasoul 15 years ago

^Agree with everything said above, except the 250,000,000 people... it's estimated at over 300,000,000 now, not counting the illegals. ;)

"Rescue the damsel in distress; kill the bad guy; save the world."
--Rick O'Connell

[–] moridith 18 years ago

"Your hatred for the greatest country on earth blinds you to the truth and causes you to see things that are not there. "

Um, if it's really hatred he's expressing he wouldn't have to create illusions of what's there. He would just hate it the way it is, but he doesn't.

Nor does he criticize the fact that the movie is located in America. What he doesn't like, and I agree with him there, is all the flag waving. I like the US, I lived there for four years and grew very fond of it. But all that stuff is sentimental hog wash. What kid starts singing the national anthem out of no where? It doesn't make sense. And it isn't true to the book either. And it serves no purpose other than to masturbate the ego of the audience. It almost ruins an otherwise great movie.

[–] Nilgiris 16 years ago

Good, but not for the peace in the world today, to se there is, maybe, almost (at lest) 2, 3 whit me, calm and clever people her in this kindergarden.
(He is a she). And she JUST come whit an opinon on a "little FILM"?, my god, and ther you go: WAR.
It,s all to touchy folks, like a "religion" thats bin around for about 1500 years, that also makes WAR if sombody have an opinon about them.

I read this one the other day: "I you want peace; prepare for war".

"HOW DO YOU DARE TO HAVE AN OPINON ON A USER COMMENTS BOARD & HOW DO YOU DARE TO BE A FORRINGER SAY ANYTIHNG IF YOU ARE NOT WRITING/SPELLING 100 % PERFECT".
"SHAME ON YOU" ;-)

PS: My spelling mide be bad, but I think it make sence and that good and resenble people get's everything. And after this here, baba, "I simply refuse to go and have a look in my digtionary to make my "englis" prober". ;-}

Patriotic: Well, my country has the biggest amound of solders, in the hole world, in Afghanistan compare to the population. (But who cares; I don't)

[–] njumeil 18 years ago

"A better question is why does every non American hate eveyrthing about America, except of course, our money and our military aid when they need it."

Wrong. Jeez, all that arogance...

[–] Yvelines 17 years ago

LOL you are an arrogant ignorant idiotic american
so stupid u couldnt even find a single country beginning with U

Found any yet??? ill give u one: USA u friggin retard and if u want more: Uzbekistan and Uruguay

I DONT hate your country i just hate arrogant americans like you who talk
of greatest country in the world and who call their national baseball league
the World series
you are so arrogant u call ur national league the world series because u consider other national leagues as so inferior that they neednt be considered
Yes your country is the richest in the world but hardly the "greatest" in the world

[–] trumpetkyle1 17 years ago

How about Uganda or Uruguay or UAE, I could go on...

PS: The "World Series" is named so because of the reference that in the late 1800s the USA was pretty much the only country highyl-skilled in the sport. The name just stuck- (although originally it was called the World's Championship Series). I am an American, but not a big fan of baseball. If you are going to make trite remarks like that do your research first chump.

[–] lysergic-acid 17 years ago

arice204, please shut up. you're making an ass of yourself and making the rest of us look bad.

why the hell wouldn't an american want to see a movie set in a different country or starring someone of a different nationality? what difference does that make on the cinematic merits of a film?

there are so many idiotic statements and hypocritical remarks in your post it's embarrassing. i'll chalk it up to puerile naiveté. but please, grow out of it already. and until then, please don't speak for the rest of us.

[–] tri_swan 17 years ago

The op's point was well put, arice you made as many mistakes with your grammar and many more with your spelling, I have watched many movies from around the world and cant deny american movies do often have thoroughly nationalistic and not to mention cheesey moments, i cant recall a korean, french, spanish, japanese, mexican or british movie that rivals them for it, having said that almost all of my favourite movies are american.

[–] LocoHero 16 years ago

A better question is why does every non American hate eveyrthing about America, except of course, our money and our military aid when they need it.

WHy on earth do non Americans have to read so much into things. Your hatred for the greatest country on earth blinds you to the truth and causes you to see things that are not there.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Greatest country on earth???? hhahahahha. People living in poverty, no public health system, everyone carying guns and shooting eachother, then politicians saying "Errrrrrr guns dont kill people, people kill people." Yeah, but it helps to have a gun doesnt it, fools.

Money??? hhahahaha You are TRILLIONS in debt.

[–] bayowolf 15 years ago

ari,
There I was. I was totally agreeing with 95% of what you were saying--then, you had to eff it up by criticizing the OP's English (with which I saw little, if anything, wrong). Of course, that's my opinion.
My other opinion is that the point of the movie was that civilization was lost (then saved) in the most unlikely place: the USA. [The fact is that the USA (under the Constitution of 1787) has proven to be the most stable country on Earth. I challenge anyone to name a country whose system of government is as old as the US'. (If anyone mentions the UK, then you're wrong: The current constitutional monarchy that the UK has dates back only to the beginning of the Chartist movement in 1838--the US had elected its eighth President by then.)] If things have gotten to the point that the US had collapsed, then (by the time the movie's story started) Civilization would have been a rare and precious thing. Costner's character would not have been just an American hero but a world hero as well.
~~Bayowolf
I see the fnords!!

[–] scutterluke 15 years ago

The great reform act was passed in 1832,and the Chartists movement of the late 1830's and early 1840's had very little impact on the polticial system of the UK. They were unsuccessful in every way and even after 1832 the majority of the population of the UK still did not have the vote. However the British Government considers the start of the consitituional monarchy to be the glourious revolution of 1688 when King William was made to sign a contract to obey parliment. Further more, many nations claim to predate this act too; such as Iceland and the Netherlands. I know that this has nothing to do with the film but I read your post and as I have written an undergraduate dissertation, masters paper and am working on my Doctorate all on changes to the British govermenti thought I shold set you straight.

[–] bayowolf 15 years ago

OOPS! My bad!! I forgot all about the Reform Act (which extended the franchise to 16% of the male population of Britain--oooh, I'm impressed!). So, I was slightly off: the USA was busy re-electing its seventh President when Parliament passed the Reform Act. You mention Iceland--the Althing dates back to the Xth Century; however Iceland was not independent until 1944 when the 32nd US President was about to be elected for the fourth(!) time (It had various types of home rule since 1874). The Netherlands has had several regime changes in the last few centuries, including when it was the Batavian Republic (under the influence of Revolutionary France); then Napoleon forced it to accept his brother as King; then Napoleon annexed it to the French Empire. The modern Kingdom of the Netherlands dates back only to 1815 (a year before the USA elected its fifth President)--even then the Netherlands underwent several changes: It started out as a non-constitutional monarchy that also included Belgium and Luxembourg.

EDIT: You said that the Chartist movement "had very little impact on the political system of the UK. They were unsuccessful in every way...". (Emphasis mine) You would have been more correct if you had said that Chartism was "temporarily unsuccessful"; out of the six points in the Chartists' plan only the proposal for annually elected Parliaments has not passed; all the other 5 demands were met or exceeded.

~~Bayowolf
I see the fnords!!

[–] evilatheist-1 15 years ago

"Your hatred for the greatest country on earth blinds you to the truth and causes you to see things that are not there. "

What an absolute clown.

[–] jejozi 15 years ago

Dude, you're one of the things wrong with America. Cuz you're kind of a richard. Someone comes on, asks a very legit question and you go all patriotic republican on him. For someone who is not a native English speaker he did quite well. You, on the other hand, might want to, brush up, on your, use of, commas., Oh, and spell check your work, too, Pot.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

[–] nutsberryfarm 15 years ago

usa all the way!

I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

[–] SpiltPersonality 13 years ago

Are you kidding me?

One mroe thing, if you are going to type and speak in English, learn how to do it properly. YOu totally butchered the language. Of course that is just my nationalistic opinion.

No, honestly - are you kidding me?

SO, the guy basically saves civilization and it is to much to erect a statue of him?

SO, the guy basically saves civilisation and it is too much to erect a statue of him?

How on earth was this movie propoganda?

How on earth was this movie propaganda?

A better question is why does every non American hate eveyrthing about America, except of course, our money and our military aid when they need it.

A better question is: "Why does every non-American hate everything about America? Except of course our money and our military aid when they need it".

WHy on earth do non Americans have to read so much into things. Your hatred for the greatest country on earth blinds you to the truth and causes you to see things that are not there.

Why on earth do non-Americans have to read so much into things? Your hatred for the greatest country on earth blinds you to the truth and causes you to see things that are not there.

By the way, why is your opinion more important or more right than that of the film maker? Maybe you aren't nationalistic enough. Example, you are going to totally disagree with what I have written. But isn't that exactly what you did to the filmaker. The difference is, I will speak my peace, but acknowledge your right to speak. You on the toher hand will continue on hhpocritically and gripe about us trying to propogandize everyone, yet you continue to do it yourself.

By the way, why is your opinion more important or more right than that of the film maker? Maybe you aren't nationalistic enough. Example, you are going to totally disagree with what I have written. But itsn't that exactly what you did to the film maker. The difference is, I will speak my peace, but acknowledge your right to speak. You on the other hand will continue on hypocritically and gripe about us trying to use propaganda on everyone, yet you continue to do it yourself.

One mroe thing, if you are going to type and speak in English, learn how to do it properly. YOu totally butchered the language. Of course that is just my nationalistic opinion.

One more thing, if you are going to type and speak in English, learn how to do it properly. You totally butchered the language. Of course that is just my nationalistic opinion.

ANd do't come a knocking next time your country needs money or someone to fight your battles.

And don't come a knocking next time your country needs money or someone to fight your battles.

Phew.

SpiltPersonality

[–] Soodinum 12 years ago

" ... the greatest country on earth ... "

People like you are the reason some others hate America.

'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings.

[–] SonicMozart 18 years ago

I doubt too many Americans would go see it

lol nice defense. not too bright (like most people from the USA), are you?

[–] theskillz 18 years ago

I doubt too many Americans would go see it

Actually that is probably true. In the end, it's just a movie, and if you don't like the "propoganda" or American theme of the movie, you can watch something made in your own country for something more suitable to your tastes.

As far as being one of the "not too bright" Americans, I'll take that as a compliment compared to the rest of the world. Scoreboard.

[–] delta_storm2152 18 years ago

Well I don't care a lot for American's being self-centered and actually believing they are in the greatest country. As far as living conditions, education, health-care and freedom America is not anywhere near the bottom of the list, but it's also very far from the best. However sometimes having a patriotic movie is a good thing. Not all of the time, but the Postman is a worthy candidate for patriotism. It showed the bad sides of America as well, it had a huge underlying message about racism in America.

As far as the intelligence of American people... Well they are pretty oblivious to many things. I don't think it's that they are less intelligent, it's that they lack the knowledge to show the possible intelligence. They are really into themselves and don't know anything about the rest of the world, not even their next door neighbors in Canada. You should see the reality/street interview shows us Canadians have making fun of American people that actually think there are polar bears in Ontario, and we live in igloos.

I think the main thing to consider about the postman though is that it can be applied to all nations. Think of it this way; It uses the mail as a signpost for hope. It's something that any soldier in a war can tell you... Getting mail from loved ones when you are stuck somewhere far away is an exciting joyous thing. It's good for morale, it's communication with people elsewhere, it's something to bring people together and it's something to look forward to... It can create a network and restore a country. This doesn't just apply to America. That situation could of happened anywhere in the world.

That's just my opinions

[–] jpselvia 18 years ago

Forgive me, I'm still trying to figure out what exactly represents the American "nationalism" that is obviously so disgustingly rampant in this film. The only thing the flag represents to the characters is hope in the restoration of normal, civil society as they had known it before the war and plague. Those good old days before armed thugs stole everything that wasn't nailed down. The type of stable, decent society that clearly only exists in the USA and absolutely nowhere else on earth like Japan or Britain. (Eyes spinning like roulette wheels in Vegas)

I don't recall Costner's soliloquy about the evils of Islam or the righteousness of conquering barbaric foreign devils as a testament to the undoubted greatness of American civilization. I thought he didn't launch into such a speech because it was completely irrelevant to the story. Obviously my moronic American nature left me unable to detect these hidden, nationalistic Yankee Devil messages within the subtext. Or the text. Or the supertext.

Perhaps my foreign friends, who saw this movie with a much more careful eye than I used to watch it, could enlighten this poor benighted United Statesian. What do you say?

[–] A_Friend_of_Sarah_Connor 18 years ago

remember Independance day? the film made it look as if only the "almighty" US can save the world while everyone else in the world is too dumb to figure out a secret code. Please!

"I'm gonna need a hacksaw"

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] A_Friend_of_Sarah_Connor 18 years ago

"If you don't like that we don't regularly make films that stroke the egos of other nationalities"

what i don't like is that you're stroking your own egos of superiority by hitting any foreigners that might watch the film over the head with messages of "patriotism" and propaganda, more than any other country does. back to my original post: of all the other countries trying to find something that could stop the aliens, one guy gets a "eureka!" moment out of nowhere and saves the world? and why do you call yourselves "american"? i live in North America but have to settle for "canadian"

"I'm gonna need a hacksaw"

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] A_Friend_of_Sarah_Connor 18 years ago

solomon, you seem to be proud of your country, and not the usual streotype of a Bush-like idiot and i thank you for replying and debating your case

but i still think hollywood overglamorizes the role that the US has in solving world wide disasters in these type of movies. of course it would cater to your country's population, but it often makes you look bad.

"Besides, who is more likely to come up with a solution to the alien problems in movies, the folks who have a space program, or those who don't?"

please don't tell me this means what I think it does

"I'm gonna need a hacksaw"

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] A_Friend_of_Sarah_Connor 18 years ago

"It would be difficult to do so considering I'm not a mind reader and you didn't tell me what you are thinking."

you said that only countries with a space program would be able to solve the alien problem, which almost seems as if you're boasting.

really, i don't even know why we're still arguing about this, because you probably have the better point, and some of my comments were out of line. but i still think there may be more "selling" in US films than any other. who knows? it's probably because i watch a lot of them

"I'm gonna need a hacksaw"

[–] jclark0808 17 years ago

Just watched this movie on Demand (for free) and I looked it up on IMDB... lo and behold, I find a loooong thread about nationalism and the US, and how arrogant Americans are....

Okay.... what?!?!

This movie was made over a decade ago... I don't know why this movie is being debated in the light that it is, considering the same issues did not exist to quite the same degree as they do now. This could be argued that this is how Americans have been viewed for decades, but it can't be contested that it has been amplified ten-fold since 2001, 4 years after this movie was made.

Another thing I don't understand is why it's so strange that movies made in America have Americans saving the day, or American hero figures. If the movie were made in any other country, the hero would most undoubtedly be of that country's origin.

And ALL American movies are nationalistic, blah blah blah...? Come on. This movie is one out of hundreds. Maybe you should change film genres if you're looking for different messages, instead of watching a post-apocalyptic story involving the rebuilding of a nation. (through one of the original foundations that is arguably one of the most important building blocks of nation building in existence - national communication. That seems to be the main point, to me at least... it's more of a history lesson than anything else)

Please people, try to be more objective when watching movies. Not everything is a stab at the rest of the world. If anything, current filmmakers are loathe to include obvious patriotism in their films... the media in the US (barring partisan news broadcasts)is actually highly dominated by more of a mainstream liberal idealism than conservatism.

Hopefully, people don't truly believe that all Americans are as their medias demonize us to be... We are a flawed nation, just as others are, and we, above anyone else, are familiar with our faults... just because we choose to remain proud people, and don't jump on the "I HATE THE US" wagon, doesn't make us ignorant... It makes us human.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] AnotherSchmoe 16 years ago

"remember Independance day? the film made it look as if only the "almighty" US can save the world while everyone else in the world is too dumb to figure out a secret code. Please! "

And I'm sure if it was a French-made movie then the Americans or the British or the Japanese would have figured it out, not the French, am I right? Please! Hypocrisy FTW.

Not saying you're French obviously, it's just an example.

[–] trumpetkyle1 17 years ago

Well delta, in my humble opinion, generalizing is definitely not a sign of intelligence. I am an American and I agree with a few things you say, (namely living conditions and health-care [to an extent]). I would say we have a great post-secondary education system. I also feel that the American people are some of the "free-est" people in the world (taken from the context of free speech and other rights [also to an extent].

PS: the simpleton talk shows/street interview programs you are referring to are created to entertain you, not to represent the common intelligence of an American person. They specifically target less-than-average people (intelligence-wise) and exploit their naïveté.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] armands_skutelis 18 years ago

Because they are American movies. If they would be Soviet Russian movies they would have another message about how the communism will rule the world.
Classic english sci-fi books also feature english characters who save the day or are some kind of heroes.
What do you think- they would make a movie to show that USA could not save the day but some East Crapistan country did.

Movie was very good, much better than ID or Waterworld because it carried bigger message- People need routine, people need postal service, people need cars, computers- we don't want to return back to horses, people need government or they need to think that some kind of government and law still exists.

[–] Candy_star 18 years ago

the ending was great. it showed that everyone was able to get back on their feet & that they all stopped moaning & moping about locked away in tiny depeleted villages. they got back together cuz of the postman. nothing american about that. any desolte group has to finda way back sooner or later. it just happend to be set in a USA-type enviroment. it was made by USA people after all...sheesh. & im canadian btw...the postman in my opinion was great.

Remember: Amateurs-built the ark. Professionals-built the Titanic

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Candy_star 18 years ago

& americans wonder why most people dont like them i just stood up for your country in that other post...& im in canada...& you bite me head off anyway...

go hump bush

Remember: Amateurs-built the ark. Professionals-built the Titanic

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Candy_star 18 years ago

thanks...

& i know half the world is idiotic...while the rest of us are smartarses LOLOL

Remember: Amateurs-built the ark. Professionals-built the Titanic

[–] WhiteAndBlueBlood 18 years ago

Reading this entire post makes me laugh so much, you can just tell that all the americans base the greatness of their country on the movies they see....I bet most have never been to their neighbouring state, so having a glorified patriotism for the whole nation is ignorant and down right stupid.
Americans make out that America is just like a Michael Bay movie, which to them makes it a good thing, while the rest of us just laugh at your selfcentred view of yourselves.
I agree that most Americans are like Michael Bay movies, over confident, ridiculous, cringe inducing and very far from the truth.

[–] sanmichaelhome 18 years ago

Well sorry that we Americans have a long history of high leveled patriotism, and im pretty sure it was like this before movies and television. You know you don't seem to understand what some people here said. So let me make it clear to you
(clears throat)
We don't CARE about what the "rest of us" think or say. We don't give a **** about what you all think about us. Funny how many of these people hate or dislike the U.S but either depend on us for assistance of any kind, or their people come over here to study in our universities and schools. They like to live here, cuz most places in the world don't have the things we offer here. But they still don't like Americans. Deal with it and instead of trying to bash Americans, try to fix the problems in your country that's obviously keeping it below the levels reached by our nation. Underlying jealousy is a problem and the first step is admitting it.

[–] mike-4265 18 years ago

>>We don't CARE about what the "rest of us" think or say. We don't give a **** about what you all think about us. Funny how many of these people hate or dislike the U.S but either depend on us for assistance of any kind, or their people come over here to study in our universities and schools. They like to live here, cuz most places in the world don't have the things we offer here. But they still don't like Americans. Deal with it and instead of trying to bash Americans, try to fix the problems in your country that's obviously keeping it below the levels reached by our nation. Underlying jealousy is a problem and the first step is admitting it.<<

It's comments like this make make me ashamed to be an American. I'd as soon take up arms against this type of jingoistic ignorance than against a foreign nation whom I have no quarrel with.

The sad truth is that many Americans like this poster rarely get out of their own county, let alone show any interest in what's happening in the rest of the world, and have turned a "my team" type of sports a fandom into a attitude and viewpoint for dealing with the rest of the world.

Truthfully, Americans like this poster always have to believe that there has to an 'opponent' of some sort, whether in the form of another nation or short of that, with those fellow Americans who don't share their same narrowly held beliefs. They listen to right-wing talk radio and show little interest in viewpoints other than own. Many of this ilk have been adrift since the Cold War "victory" over the Soviet Union.

Are we a great country. Yes - we are. But we've elected a government of officials who exist to serve business interests above all and have little use for world events that do not directly impact its interests and those of its party supporters. The current administration has little use, and little interest in maintaining favorable relations with countries that do not accept its way of thinking. The damage to foreign relations under this administration is immeasurable.

As far as this movie is concerned: I'm watching it for the first time as we speak and that led me to its review on IMDB. Realistically, it's a Sci-Fi film based on a book from an American writer. I highly doubt he considered world opinion when penning the book. It's a movie from America about America, and it's a work of fiction. I wouldn't take this as any sort of arrogant American manifesto.

[–] anotherbob 18 years ago

I've read a few US-critical posts suggesting that, unlike the US, most nations don't have patriotic film industries. Well, patriotic can be hard to define, but I'd say that it reflects pride in at least two things: nation and culture. So going from that ...

A significant proportion of foreign films boost their own nations and cultures. And that's not a criticism -- I like to see that, because it gives me an idea of what they value about themselves, of how they value themselves. When buddhist ideals or thai boxing were boosted in Ong Bak, I didn't finding myself outraged at an "arrogant" or "self-centered" Thai culture. Anthony Zimmer had numerous "unnecessary" examples of French patriotism, but those simply served to illuminate the characters and the story.

It isn't offensive, it wasn't bad. Non-US films export their values and cultures, just like US films do. It's not nearly so uncommon in international films as as some of the earlier posters would pretend.

One thing that is unique about the US film industry is that it's also remarkably critical of the US. For every blockbuster film that's patriotic, you'll easily find other blockbuster films to balance that out. In addition, Americans -- who come from all over the globe -- seek out foreign films and consume them in mass quantities. We love foreign culture, and even our awards ceremonies reflect that.

The US is also exporting quite a bit of media. It might get a little overwhelming for folks in other nations, but you are consuming it. All I can say is that if you're concerned that there's an imbalance, export your own back to us. If it's a good film, there's no reason not to watch it. Heck, if you respond to this post and aren't American, name some great films from your own nation that you'd want us to see.

Just use a little common sense in the process and realize that we'll be a lot more receptive to your individual recommendations if you aren't simultaneously attacking us en masse as dumb, arrogant, or what-have-you. ;-)

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] anotherbob 18 years ago

Your response only served to bolster my argument. You posted as a fellow American, criticizing our nation and boosting other nations, even to the extent of "guessing" statistics. Of course, you rightly spoke positively of other nations, and there is a kernel of truth to be found even in the most rabid of your hyperbolic criticism. And you know what? You don't stand out.

Criticism of the US and praise for other nations is pretty common among Americans. And while your own rabid-fire assault bordered on pathological, the criticisms were still still quite mild compared to the criticisms of many. In fact, the commonality of such criticisms stands as a fatal rebuttal to regularly-made but woefully ignorant claims that Americans as a whole are insular, blindly patriotic, or ignorant of other cultures. We love other cultures, and we obsess over our own culture's flaws. This is naturally reflected in our film industry.

Your complaint about lack of travel is faulty for a few reasons.

First, America is a union of states. These are not quite the individual nation states such as France or England, but states they are. In this sense, travel throughout the EU is analogous to travel throughout the US. Cultures very greatly within the US, as any Californian visitor to Alabama could tell you. I would guess that the travel statistics aren't remarkably different with other nations.

Even so, you tossed out a blind guess as to international travel on the part of Americans and didn't bother to offer even that much for the foreign populations to whom you would compare us.

Well, getting back to the original point, which you thankfully managed to barely touch on in the last few sentences of your diatribe, how did you come to the following conclusion? "Most people do not watch subtitled films." Perhaps most of the people you know don't. Perhaps your friends are more comfortable with Saturday morning cartoons, for all I know. But your own experience says nothing of Americans in general. My own experience is such that I know very few Americans who don't watch foreign films on a regular basis. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between our own remarkably different experiences. But in tossing out your one-sided guess, you didn't bother to guess the viewing habits of other nations' populations for comparative purposes.

So while I can't say that I know what percentage of Americans watch foreign films, you've given us no reason to believe that this is significantly different in America than in other nations.

Furthermore, you said little of our film industry, itself. There's more "crass commercialism." This doesn't serve as a substantive criticism, doesn't rebut the claim that our film industry is remarkably critical of the US, and certainly says nothing of the same in other nations. Your statement would fit on a bumper sticker, which you perhaps purchased from a crass commercialist. ;-)

Nor did you manage to explain why the display of a national flag in The Postman is either harmful to others or unique to an American film.

I'd invite you a second time to recommend a few foreign films, as well. If your argument is that Americans aren't watching enough foreign films, then there's no better time than now to recommend a few of your favorites. I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm always looking for new foreign films to enjoy. =)

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] anotherbob 18 years ago

I believe the two most popular foods on the planet are bread and rice. Of course, the fact that McDonalds has buns does not mean bread is evil. Similarly, patriotism in a film is not a bad thing, whether it's local or foreign. In The Postman, it wasn't even American patriotism, for the flag didn't represent a country that was anything like we knew it. (Or even an actual united country, for the majority of the film.)

The patriotism you're railing against isn't a part of The Postman, or even typical of most films. Independence Day was mentioned in this topic a few times because, unlike the vast majority of American films, it's a specifically patriotic film. Pointing to it in a discussion of American films is like pointing to Osama bin Laden in a discussion of Islam. Both stand out as remarkable exceptions that just can't be associated with the norm.

Naturally, along the borders of states you won't find too many differences, but this is true of most European nations. It's also becoming more true as the EU gains power. Of course, try driving between Nevada and Utah and you'll find quite a difference. My girlfriend's Mormon family -- btw, though I'm an atheist I'd strongly recommend The Work and the Glory trilogy -- doesn't much care for the pleasures of Vegas. ;-)

I believe you're also over-analyzing the "greatest country" concept. My dad was the greatest father, my mother the greatest mother, I grew up in the greatest home, I have some of the greatest friends, and my girlfriend, well, she's the greatest, hands down. I think ours is the greatest nation, and I suspect most can appreciate both the sentimentality and tongue-in-cheek value of that.

You listed some great films, and I haven't seen a few of those. Of those I've seen, most were produced per the very standards you spoke out against, involving the typical heavy hitters of their respective nations, produced for mass appeal. And most were excellent. My favorite of those listed is probably Run Lola Run.

Since you did list most of my favorite foreign films, I feel duty bound to list a few others that are great. Howl's Moving Castle and Spirited Away are must sees. 9th Company and Stalingrad (1993). For more of Franka Potente, Creep is okay, but it has a sort of "American horror film" feel to it. And I'd highly recommend Swimming Pool for a less blunt, but still edgy erotic film. Edges of the Lord kicks butt, and even while it was produced for America, it never quite made its way here in any significant way.

[–] zeta1983-1 18 years ago

"Besides, who is more likely to come up with a solution to the alien problems in movies, the folks who have a space program, or those who don't?"

No one. We could have every nation Earth combine their resources and militaries and still be destroyed by the aliens before the day is out! Realistically if ID4 were to happen for real no nation or coalition of nations would have an ice cubes chance in hell against a species that can travel across interstellar space.

[–] tom-1220 15 years ago

"While I somewhat agree about your analogy of the cultural differences between CA and AL, I think the differences are far less than say France vs Italy vs Sweden. And, the differences between CA and AL are lessening every day. America is becoming ever more homogenous. The same Wal-Mart, the same row of the same restaurant chains, the same type of suburban subdivisons, and so on can be found everywhere. Regional differences are disappearing.

When you drive between various states you can often not feel any difference when you cross into a new state. The language and the culture are roughly the same. Naturally as the distance increases changes do appear gradually."

Whereas I am not about to enter the fray, argue over whether the USA is great and everywhere else is not (its hard to call USA great w/ liberals in office anyway) and become one of the 'diluted Americans,' I do, however, need to comment on the above statement.

I have been to several WALMARTS spanning several states and even though they are all WALMARTS, its quite apparent interacting w/ the people in each store what region you are in. Regional differences are not disappearing, yet (I fear they will eventually). Trust me, lived and moved from Chicago, to NYC, to Northern NJ, to southern NJ, to western PA (eesh, God-awful toothless inbred morons), to central VA. Each area, even b'twn northern and southern NJ is region specific. Going from NY/NJ to *beep* (I'm sorry, I mean Pittsburgh) felt like a ride thru the DeLorean from Back to the Future part 1. Racist, inbred, simplistic, un-educated, un-cultured people in western PA. Going from PA to VA, again, huge differences. So, in retrospect, going from CA to AL is huge, it truly is.

FYI - I also lived in Europe, Suomi-Finland (mita kuuluu) for a few years and did some traveling around so I have experienced some culture other than US culture.

[–] rasicar 14 years ago

I'm going to have to back you on this one. As someone who lives in Oregon and had in-laws and a wife from New England, I visited there and I must say I really don't like the culture in New England (maybe it was just the Boston/Mass. culture) but damned if everyone was uptight and seemed to look down at you. Definitely was missing that laid-back, down to earth, take things one step at a time, mentality that I love about the Pac. NW.

You vote for pizza and a movie, they vote to rape you with switchblades. That's voting.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] mrmineo 18 years ago

This all went south pretty fast. Responding to the original question though, I think to say that ALL American movies are nationalistic propaganda is a little bit much. There's alot of it, sure, but far more that isn't. Occasionally there may even be some anti-nationalism. The problem is that you mostly will just see the patriotic if you stick to summer blockbuster type pieces such as this. Speaking from my own tastes, patriotic speeches and Norman-Rockwell-esque scenes are pretty tired and saccharine. I think that I notice it often when it's done (because it's usually pretty ham fisted) but I have to say that it's still in the minority of movies that I watch.

[–] samt3579 18 years ago

Shallow and insubstantial, this movie does not merit another word. Not one.

[–] mpbouffard 18 years ago

There is nothing wrong with patriotism. Why shouldn't people love their own countries? America is a great nation. Of course there are problems, but if you live in a utopian society please let me know so i can move there. I believe America is the greatest country on Earth. Time to cook some burgers.

[–] egcrx 18 years ago

Coming from an Italian American, I love my country. The USA has treated me great, and given me every oppurtunity to succed at life. I have absolutely no hatred for anyone from another country and never quite understood how being American automatically makes you hated in other countries, how we dont pay attention to other countries problems, just our own. Do other countries not realize that we didnt have enough people to help in our own country when hurricane katrina hit because alot of our help were in other countries helping with there misfortunes. Americans are nowhere near snobby, or even arrogant for that matter, we are so busy working in our own country that we just dont have the time to visit or learn about other cultures, but that doesnt mean we dont want to. My whole thing is, if you have never been to the US or met anyone from the US, then you have absolutely no right to say anything bad about us, just as I have no right to say anything bad about anyone else from another country. I guess I take pride in knowing that I live in a beautiful country, sure it has its flaws, but at the end of the day I would die to keep my country and my fellow countrymen safe.

[–] neopot_2 18 years ago

Who ever said Americans have the best military, not really. Right now they have the worst military.

[–] mpbouffard 18 years ago

haha America has the best military on the planet

[–] botosai_2001 18 years ago

military doesn't realy matter in regaurds to this movie, a war was faught yes but it was nature that destroyed the rest with plague and other disasters. also its a great military cause it has a runaway budget lol