MovieChat Forums > In & Out (1997) Discussion > Am I the only one who felt totally betra...

Am I the only one who felt totally betrayed by the last part?

posted 16 years ago by malachiX2000
44 replies | jump to latest

I liked this movie for the first hour or so.

The idea seemed to be to poke fun at homophobia, gay stereo-types, and typical small-town views of what a man should be. The point seemed to be that gay individuals are more than their stereotypes and one can be a perfectly heterosexual guy even if you do speak well, teach English, and are a bit neat (the Barbra Streisand thing is pushing it though...)

What I hated is that the last act totally invalidated the rest of the film. The second Kline's character decides he's gay, essentially says to the audience, "all the silly stereotypes, stuff like Bob Newhard asking him to 'walk for [him]' were right." It felt like such a betrayal of what the earlier parts had been going for.

Worse than that, the film just stopped being funny at that point. Part of what makes a good comedy is having a main character you can identify with who's put into crazy and frustrating circumstances. When we believe Kline is just a bit of a prissy guy who's now gotten outed by a former student, even though he's not gay, right before his wedding; it's really funny. You feel for him because he's not acting any different but now everyone else is treating him differently. When we find out he is gay, it's not really possible to identify with him. You start asking, "how the hell could he not have known at that age?" or "why should I feel bad for him when they were all right?"

I think this film really would have been a classic had it not been for the lousy final act. Shame.

[–] jefgg 12 years ago

The last part of the movie was a minor disappointment. But I couldn't think of a way to make it better. Overall, I thought it was a good movie.

[–] OutForAWalkB-tch 12 years ago

I totally agree! I just saw this for the first time today, and I thought it would have been a much stronger message if he'd turned out to be straight.

They totally dropped the ball on this one.

I hear the drizzle of the rain. Like a memory it falls.

[–] RottenBeauty 12 years ago

I don't think it invalidates anything. Like it or not sometimes those stereotypes are true and they often seem to mean more to gay people than they do to straight people. There was a whole bunch of his heterosexual friends who liked the same things as he did and were not gay, but he was.

If you had to ask at any point 'why should I feel bad for him?' then . . .I worry about you. You should feel bad for him being he was facing oppression and destruction of his life over something he had no control.

And people can genuinely not know their sexuality at 'that age' as well as some people finding their sexuality more fluid and able to actually change.

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[–] gldrgidr-1 12 years ago

If you had to ask at any point 'why should I feel bad for him?' then . . .I worry about you. You should feel bad for him being he was facing oppression and destruction of his life over something he had no control.

The real problem is that the oppression and destruction of someone's life can also occur because we live in a society where homophobia is so intense that heterosexual men are judged to be gay based on stereotypes and superstitions.

I personally had my career destroyed because of these homophobic superstitions.
Suffered through 17 years of harrassment, lost the job, went bankrupt, lost my house, and wound up homeless. It's been ten years since I lost my house, and I still have not recovered financially. The only reason I'm still alive is because now I'm old enough to receive social security.

This society is far more tolerant of gays, then those who don't fit the stereotypes of gay and straight. Nobody cares about the truth, they just want to feel comfortable in their stereotypes. Make no mistake about it, these stereotypes are nothing more than superstition.

The end of this movie did not just ruin it's comedic sense, it fostered the prejudice due to homophobic superstition that causes the oppression and destruction of some straight men's lives.

This movie had the chance to help change things. Instead it just promoted ignorant prejudice based on superstition.

Too much, too soon, too long, too strong, too many,
to fix.

[–] RottenBeauty 12 years ago

There are plenty of representations of gay men who don't 'live up' to the stereotypes that have been given to homosexual men . . .there are also plenty who may as well be walking manifestations of them.

Homosexuality doesn't always look like it does in this movie, but it can. You may personally feel that the main character exhibiting many of the stereotypes of a gay man is offensive but those stereotypes in the movie were only used after he was outed. Despite having always been this way nobody around him ever felt that he was gay.

They didn't ostracise him because of these stereotypes and behaviours, he was treated differently only after the assertion was made that he was gay . . .and alienated by some people after he declared that he was gay.

I do know that stereotypes can be harmful and hurtful, being comfortable enough to identify as bisexual gets me aggressive from both 'sides' of the issue. From the straight people who feel than bisexuals are greedy and promiscuous to the gay people who feel that I am 'a gay person in denial' and have been simply too cowardly to declare my allegiance to the lesbian alliance.

And I can understand the desire to want to see things portrayed fairly, hell the non existence of bisexuality in TV and movies is a source of aggravation but I try not to let it ruin things for me. I know that may be easier for me than you because I have never lost my house or job due to small minded people . . . but it is those small minded people who are to blame, not the well intended minds that made this film.

What you went through sounds sad and I can understand your sensitivity, I just personally don't see this particular movie as damaging. I see TV shows like Glee more damaging than this.

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[–] gldrgidr-1 12 years ago

Homosexuality doesn't always look like it does in this movie, but it can. You may personally feel that the main character exhibiting many of the stereotypes of a gay man is offensive but those stereotypes in the movie were only used after he was outed. Despite having always been this way nobody around him ever felt that he was gay.

You just don't get it. I don't feel that the main character exhibited many of the stereotypes of a gay man. The reasons why the idiot who outed him believed he was gay was an absolute joke.
Are we supposed to believe that he was always 'this way', but he had no idea of it? Because that's how this movie plays. Are we supposed to believe that homosexuality is this illness that you contract overnight?

There's a complete inconsistency between the first half of the movie and the second half. It's like two different people wrote this movie.
The first half of this movie did not show a gay man in denial. It showed a heterosexual man being wrongly accused. That's what this thread is about.

The writer started out this movie with good intentions, then at some point he was pressured into doing a complete 180 and making the main character gay.

Too much, too soon, too long, too strong, too many,
to fix.

[–] SforSmile 10 years ago

you didn't understand the movie either

"Some people are immune to good advice."
-Saul Goodman

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lilcharmer 12 years ago

I just saw this movie last night for the first and while it started out ok, it got lame quick when he realized he was gay for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

I then couldn't wait for it to be over.

[–] hosie9575-747-55196 12 years ago

I don't know the age of the OP, but I think that may have something to do with his and a lot of opinions in this thread. And they're not wrong. If you saw this film for the first time in the last 5-7 years, you're right. But it was not that long ago that men and women went to great lengths to deny being gay, not only to others, but to themselves.

This film was certainly not the best portrayal of this, but it was a good comedic portrayal at a time when gay characters in mainstream films were few and far between, were almost always less than supporting characters, and were usually clownish.

This movie may not have aged well, but at the time of its release, it was a big deal that he came out at all, and the idea of the character just having to deal with being a straight guy who people thought was gay would completely miss the point.

What makes the film enjoyable now (at least to me) is the fact that it IS silly and even ridiculous. And the first time I saw this, it was clearly meant to be a comedy, but it wasn't all that hard to suspend reality. And it's amazing that we've come so far in such a short time.

Some films will always be great, even if they're dated. This is probably just a film that was pretty good if you saw it when it came out (and you came out) and for me it will always be good because it brings me back to that time, which, as difficult as it was, turned out to be a pretty good move.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Kuato_and_George 12 years ago

It's a light-hearted comedy, not a drama. Sure, it might have a little message in it, but this isn't meant to be some big social commentary. So what if there are some stereotypes in it? You don't have a problem when it's making fun of the small-town folk.

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[–] rgcustomer 12 years ago

Apparently you missed the part where the Oscar-winning actor already knew he was gay, from well before the start of the film. Why would he know, but no other student? Now that's a story, but nobody seemed interested in telling it.

While many gay people naturally pass for straight, there are few straight men who are mistaken for gay. To be sure, there are lots of hot guys that gay men WANT to be gay, and may hit on to find out. It's not the same. It may not be popular to say this, but if you think someone is gay based on how they act, and not on what they look like, then there's a good chance you're right.

In this film, the betrayal at the end is when one student's potentially genuine coming out is turned into some sort of "I'm Malcolm X" farce.

[–] ksandness 11 years ago

If you read the reviews, you can see that several other people felt the same way.