Would be critically slaughtered today for portraying whites as downtrodden and economically depressed.
We all know it. Look at what happened to 'Hillbilly Elegy'.
shareTrue. Not much white privilege on show here!
shareI'm not sure you really understand what privilege is. It's not that all white people are rich.
shareCondescend much? Do you think the characters in this film had any societal boost based simply on their skin colour?
shareHow was that condescending? Privilege (edit White Privilege) isn't just about who has money, it's how people are treated based on the colour of their skin.
In 2018, Scotland's population was 96% white
https://www.statista.com/statistics/367842/scotland-ethnicity-of-population/
Even if those stats were off, they weren't off by much. To talk about white privilege being a thing in a country that is almost exclusively white doesn't make any sense. There is no one else to compare to. I'm sure in the 1980s it was at least as white if not more.
Right, and woe betide anyone who doesn’t play along with this utter fantasy that non-whites are somehow mistreated in the modern West when they receive massive discrimination in their favour and at the expense of whites.
sharethis utter fantasy that non-whites are somehow mistreated in the modern West when they receive massive discrimination in their favour and at the expense of whites.
I'd really like to see stats that back that up, and not just feelings. share
You’re not aware of ‘positive discrimination’ against whites?
shareYeah I have. Where is the actual proof of discrimination against whites? Race swapping in Hollywood is not discrimination. Hiring more women and POC is not discrimination. Look, I'm not saying that you are wrong, I am asking for actual proof that it exists. Where is the widespread societal discrimination against white people?
shareHere's some proof of discrimination against whites. You know, ACTUAL discrimination not just muh fee fees
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1452228/bbc-job-advert-bans-white-people-bame-ethnic-minorities-uk-media-jobs
That certainly is discrimination. I hope there was an investigation into that. I hope complaints were filed. Is it something that is common? Does the BBC have a no whites policy for all their jobs? Hiring prejudices are usually not that blatant. There was a local business in my city who was slammed for a job posting which said that they wouldn't even consider hiring anyone who was liberal. Not quite the same as race, but still, pretty despicable.
shareI really don't know that much about the case beyond the headlines, I remember there being a stink about it last year on social media. Yes, this was was pretty blatant I agree. I wish hiring practices scrapped all questions to do with race, gender etc and just focused on ability to do the job. Not only would it remove complaints due to discriminatory hiring practices, it would improve overall quality for whatever it is.
shareI 100% agree with that. That way the best candidate could be hired for the job.
shareThe Wall Street Journal examined racism in elite American university admissions using records produced by the schools in litigation. At the University of North Carolina for example, they found an out-of-state Asian-American in the fourth highest academic decile has only a 6.5% chance of admissions compared to 57.7% for a black. The records also demonstrated that a white, out-of-state male with 10% odds of admission would have a 98% chance if he were black. Pretty good empirical evidence on the existence of racial privilege at least in that particular sphere
shareSee stats like that kind of demolish the whole systemic racism narrative don't they!
shareIt’s not even controversial to point out the ‘positive discrimination’ against whites - a purely racist practice - is rampant and systemic. You’ve seen Miyagido’s example there and there are countless more, as I’m sure you’re aware.
shareI LIKE YOU THE LEAST OF OF ALL MY DISGUSTING LITTLE CHUD BABIES. NOEMOJI
shareWhite privilege doesn't exist, so it's whatever the person speaking it wants it to be in that moment.
shareI disagree. I'm white, and I have benefitted from the privilege that comes with that my whole life.
shareSo, because you have, every white person has? White privelege as a concept doesn't just apply to one person, it has to apply inherently to everyone who is white.
shareIf one is white, and lives in a majority white country, then one has benefitted from white privilege in their life. It does not mean that every white person is wealthy, it doesn't mean that we all get the cushy job, with the corner office. I wasn't even aware of things that I took for granted until I married someone who wasn't white.
My privilege is that as a blond(ish), white female, I am not afraid of interactions with police. Security doesn't follow me in a store or a mall because of the colour of my skin. I have always seen people who look like me on tv and in movies. In my country, at school, or at work, I have never been the only white person in the room. Every year from grade 1 - grade 12 we learned about white people history. Sure, where I lived we also learned about a different country or culture each year as well but where my ancestors were featured every year, we got maybe a month on someone else. Books by white authors were almost always taught. Some of this is changing now, but that was just some of the privileges I had growing up. There are a lot more. Some I am sure I'm not even aware of.
Blonde and female shouldn't come into it. That is white woman privelege, something on a whole other level to white privelege. Try not to conflate the two.
"I have never been the only white person in the room" - nothing to do with privelege.
"Every year from grade 1 - grade 12 we learned about white people history."
So, you shouldn't learn about white people history?
"Sure, where I lived we also learned about a different country or culture each year as well but where my ancestors were featured every year, we got maybe a month on someone else"
Shouldn't you learn only proportionally about other people's history? Wouldn't anything else be unreasonable?
To the rest of your "white privelege" points:
If you were a working class, male, inner city, illiterate, bald, obese, disabled, homosexual, toothless, hideously ugly, unhealthy looking white person, how many of those could you not put a line through?
Okay, if white people privilege has to apply to everyone, than so does white woman privilege? I don't understand your point.
Shouldn't you learn only proportionally about other people's history? Wouldn't anything else be unreasonable?
Perhaps if my class was only white. My point being that my education focused on history which mostly applied to me. Even in elementary school it was maybe 60% white kids.
If you were a working class, male, inner city, illiterate, bald, obese, disabled, homosexual, toothless, hideously ugly, unhealthy looking white person, how many of those could you not put a line through?I would ask how a working class, male, inner city, illiterate, bald, obese, disabled, homosexual, toothless, hideously ugly, unhealthy looking indigenous person is treated as well.
Sorry but I used to work in the inner city, and there was a difference with how the cops, and other people treated the white homeless people, and prostitutes compared to the white people.
I'm not saying that having white privilege is something fantastic, it's just something that over time I noticed I had. You can disagree all you want. I know I'll never convince you. share
Is there such a thing as black privilege? Does a white person in Liberia suffer due to black privilege?
shareI haven't been there. I can say that in South Africa there is still white privilege. I would say that in the middle east and in certain countries in Asia being white is not a privilege.
shareBut would you agree that it exists in concept? And I would hazard a guess that there are lots of white farmers in SA who would vehemently disagree with your assessment they are privileged
https://africacheck.org/fact-checks/factsheets/factsheet-statistics-farm-attacks-and-murders-south-africa
https://southafricatoday.net/south-africa-news/15-farm-attacks-3-farm-murders-in-south-africa-august-2022/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/delmas-farmer-brutally-murdered-by-six-armed-farm-attackers-20-march-2022-breaking/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/harrismith-farm-murder-five-family-killed-details-arrests/
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/white-farmers-killing-south-africa-race-politics-b1050659.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/world/africa/South-Africa-murder-protests.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12852875/farm-workers-torture-murder-south-africa/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8568387/South-Africa-farm-slaughter-Woman-elderly-parents-brutally-slaughtered.html
I'm very well of the attacks on farmers in South Africa and Zimbabwe. I don't consider that black privilege. I consider that murder.
When you talk about black privilege, I would argue that over 75% of the population in South Africa is black, and they own less that 30% of businesses in SA that that's not really privilege. I'm pretty sure that the 400000 + people who live in Khayelitsha consider themselves privileged.
Now if you wanted to talk about Kenya, there certainly could be black privilege there. I don't know enough about that society to say for sure, but none of the top five wealthiest people there are white. Nigeria has a thriving movie industry.
I wasn't saying the murders were black privilege I was saying they were NOT white privilege.
You could argue that blacks in SA are not privileged and then I would counter argue by quoting you directly when talking about poor whites in Scotland
privilege isn't just about who has money, it's how people are treated based on the colour of their skin.
If one is white, and lives in a majority white country, then one has benefitted from white privilege in their life. It does not mean that every white person is wealthy, it doesn't mean that we all get the cushy job, with the corner office
So by all of your measures then, all blacks in majority black countries receive black privilege.
But I totally reject the concept of white or black privilege as described either way. It's just yet another way to browbeat white people, proven when you used it to claim poor whites in Scotland are privileged but gave a pass to poor blacks in SA share
So by all of your measures then, all blacks in majority black countries receive black privilege.
Not at all. It's not about what the majority is. It's about systemic racism, not individual racism. I'm sorry that you can't understand that.
But I totally reject the concept of white or black privilege as described either way. It's just yet another way to browbeat white people, proven when you used it to claim poor whites in Scotland are privileged but gave a pass to poor blacks in SA
You totally took the goalposts
If one is white, and lives in a majority white country, then one has benefitted from white privilege in their life
and then shifted them to
It's not about what the majority is. It's about systemic racism
This kind of thing is why lots of people don't take leftist arguments very seriously, because you're dishonest. share
You wouldn't call out racism against blacks even if it was blatant. Keep licking them boots. Don't bother responding. I'm getting you back on ignore. I just like telling people like you off. Get off this board.
shareSave your black fragility, kid. I literally have zero respect for any of your opinions. Cry forever.
shareMaybe I should not put you on ignore since you are entertaining for how ignorant you are. Lol you think I care about your respect? Think again champ. How do boots taste? I am curious with how much you lick them you ought to be able to tell me how they taste.
shareWho do you think you are fooling with the whole ignore thing? I'm sorry to inform you but not everybody is as dumb as you are. How's life being a perpetual victim? Don't worry, I'd probably be bitter too if I was so mentally weak and ineffectual that I blamed all of my perceived ills on my skin colour.
shareMy life is rather great. Own my own house. have a good job, never been arrested, or charged with a crime. No substance/drug or alcohol abuse. Eat good food, not overweight and workout three times a week. I would say life has been treating me well. How about you?
Calling out racism where you see it is not playing a victim. It is called being objective as opposed to licking boots like you do. Folks like you only talk that kind of trash over a keyboard.
Look at you so mad you're unable to farm any white guilt from me lol
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/096/564/2f7.jpg
Nope I am as calm as a cucumber. You need to get back on 4chan where you belong.
shareNo I think I'll stay here
https://i.imgflip.com/4/1nhqil.jpg
No I think you need to go over there. Folks like you would love it over there. Plenty of incels and bigots to converse with.
shareI think I don't care what you think :)
https://media.tenor.com/I7qgI3hGcM4AAAAM/crying-happy.gif
Cool take care man.
shareProve systemic racism exists.
share
share
Correlation does not equal causation. The data that shows whites and blacks use and sell at similar rates is entirely self reported. I'm not sure how many drug dealers would be honest in such a situation so those numbers are very much unproven. Whereas the numbers of people arrested for crimes is entirely provable. Also there are no identical cases when it comes to criminals, each case will be dealt with according to the suspect's priors. Just because 2 people sell drugs but only 1 is convicted, it's meaningless without comparing priors. All you have shown me is that blacks are incarcerated at higher rates than whites. The cynic could argue that's evidence that blacks commit more crimes than whites proportionally.
None of what you describe bestows any privilege on you. No one of any race/color need be afraid of interactions with police, and every study or statistic backs this up. Beyond that, all you've really said is that since you live in a country that is inhabited primarily by white people, and was settled entirely by white people, most of what you saw on TV or learned in school concerned white people.
Privilege, at least by my reckoning, would be something like being allowed into university despite your grades or test scores being worse than another applicant, simply because of your race. Or being hired for a job over a more qualified applicant because of your race. It could be something along the lines of being allowed to openly mock another race without consequences, while someone of the race you mock knows she will be fired from her job and possibly evicted from her home for making an identical statement about your race. It might even be more subtle, such as when someone of your race is treated unfairly, or killed, by police, it being given non-stop news coverage, while other races receiving identical treatment is ignored by the media.
Privilege is relative. There are plenty of ways that I am not privileged. There are plenty of ways that most white people aren't privileged. I don't feel guilt for my the privileges that I have realized that I have. I am just aware that I have them. You can say that what I've described aren't privileges. I disagree.
The first part of this is from 1989 and then the notes are from 2010
https://nationalseedproject.org/Key-SEED-Texts/white-privilege-unpacking-the-invisible-knapsack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwIx3KQer54
and if you don't want to watch the video
https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/white-fragility-why-its-so-hard-to-talk-to-white-people-about-racism-twlm/
Blacks have the same opportunities in America that Asians do. Asians are not only outperforming blacks in terms of educational performance and median income, but "privileged" whites as well. Police arrest and incarcerate more "privileged" whites than American Asians, per capita. There is no systemic racism or white privilege in the US: nobody can point to a single law or policy that stops blacks doing what whites do, and Asian success utterly smashes what is left of their flimsy, nebulous narrative.
Over the pond, there is Calton, Glasgow, where my grandparents were from. The average life expectancy was early 50s at the beginning of the 21st century, and still trails the national average by over a decade. It's a brutal place, defined by its extreme violence and drug culture. Try telling some of the residents there about their "white privilege" and see how you fare.
And this is why things will never get better.
I give up
Do you give up because you can't counter any of the arguments?
shareNo. I give up because you don't want to have an honest conversation. If you don't want to differentiate between a country that is over 90% white where white people have the power and the influence, and a country that is over 75% black but the wealth and power is mostly held by others. If you don't want to admit that systemic racism exists then there is nothing left to talk about.
Systemic racism isn't about racism towards the individual. I've tried to talk about how privilege is relative, and there are a lot of ways the individual doesn't have privilege, but because you don't believe that there is such a thing as privilege, why would I want to continue?
You totally took the goalposts
If one is white, and lives in a majority white country, then one has benefitted from white privilege in their life
and then shifted them to
It's not about what the majority is. It's about systemic racism
This kind of thing is why lots of people don't take leftist arguments very seriously, because you're dishonest. Don't you dare accuse anyone else of not wanting to have an honest conversation after that.
Prove systemic racism even exists. I've given you a concrete example of actual discrimination against whites in the BBC job offering that excludes white people. Give me an equivalent, one single example of non whites being disadvantaged by something like a job opening they can't apply for or a law that is discriminatory against them. Anything. share
I'm not dishonest. Those were taken from two different comments and not in the same paragraph.
They both hold true. You completely disregarded everything that I said in the comment which you are replying to about who holds power. That is why this isn't an honest conversation. You can't talk about privilege the same way when you are discussing a homogenous population where those in the majority hold all the power as you can when you have a country with a minority holding the power over a majority. They are different situations.
I have also agreed with you that the BBC situation was discrimination. I have shared links that explain more what white privilege is. Since you have not responding to anything in those links, I'm assuming that you didn't watch the video or read them.
I don't know if you are white. If you are, have you ever had anyone say to you, "I don't think of you as being white"? When you are hired for a job, do your coworkers assume you were hired because you are white and not that you were the most qualified for the job? Are you ever asked to be the representative for your race in meetings? When you go through airport security do you fear getting pulled into secondary questioning based solely on the colour of your skin? Those are examples of privilege. There aren't laws that address these things so I can't give you that.
I'm not asking anyone here to apologize for it. I'm not saying that it's because one individual is racist. I'm just saying that it does exist. I'm saying that I have benefitted from it when dealing with police. I've also had disadvantages dealing with the police in different situations. I've benefitted from it in my education. It doesn't mean that I was handed anything on a silver platter. I still had to work my ass off. I just am aware of the times that being white was an advantage to me.
Just because your narrative shift occurred between different paragraphs doesn't mean it didn't happen. They cannot both hold true, they are contradictory statements. One says it's about majority and the other says it's not about majority, how on earth can both statements hold true?
Holds power is just another vague term you guys like to use which doesn't really mean anything which is why it gets disregarded. Those poor whites in Scotland don't hold any power which is the entire point of the argument! Who is holding the power over 75% of blacks in SA? You fail to specify anything and just expect me to accept it because it sounds good to you. Are you implying 75% of blacks are being ruled over by a higher class? Explain your position. If your position is that economically 75% blacks in SA are poor then that's a totally different statement to them holding no power. What do you mean by power? What minority is holding it and how?
No I did not read your links about white privilege, I totally reject intersectional ideology. I don't care about whether someone feels discriminated against, only if they are or are not.
have you ever had anyone say to you, "I don't think of you as being white"? When you are hired for a job, do your coworkers assume you were hired because you are white and not that you were the most qualified for the job? Are you ever asked to be the representative for your race in meetings? When you go through airport security do you fear getting pulled into secondary questioning based solely on the colour of your skin? Those are examples of privilege.
No these are examples of what the left describes as microaggressions not privilege. Well OK then they also have microconsequences and can be ignored imo. None of that describes the system discriminating against non whites.
There aren't laws that address these things so I can't give you that
Then give me something systemic. share
Those are examples of what is privilege. Those aren't microaggressions.
You are taking the idea of privilege of something that is an insult to you, so you are vehemently denying that it's true, because to you, if it is true then it shows there are inequalities in the system and for some reason you don't want to accept that. For that reason I'm done.
Do you not think it strange how you are unable to provide a single shred of evidence to support your claims of systemic racism that isn't based on how someone felt about or perceived a situation? You have failed to prove there are any inequalities in the system that disadvantage non whites. You couldn't provide a single concrete example.
I'd really like to see stats that back that up, and not just feelings.share
Here's a concrete example of discrimination against blacks in China
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/mcdonald-s-apologizes-after-restaurant-china-bans-black-people-n1184616
Still hard to argue systemic as it's not governmental but it's something concrete. Can you provide a similar example from the west?
Look, I'm not denying discrimination exists and I'm not even denying the possibility of systemic discrimination, just asking for some proof of it if it is so rampant as I keep hearing.
https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/public-interest-inquiry-racial-profiling-and-discrimination-toronto-police-service/collective-impact-interim-report-inquiry-racial-profiling-and-racial-discrimination-black
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article/00002-eng.htm
https://invisiblepeople.tv/eviction-is-nearly-twice-as-likely-for-black-and-indigenous-canadians/
This is from Paris which is still a western country
https://robbreport.com/food-drink/dining/racism-scandal-paris-restaurants-manko-1234738120/
I'm not sure you understand what a concrete example is and I'm not sure you understand what the word systemic means.
I've had a cursory look at your links and your first link shows claims of racial profiling and discrimination - they are not examples of discrimination they are claims of discrimination. Very different things.
The data from your second link comes from censuses and is entirely self reported. Claims discrimination but again, doesn't actually demonstrate it.
Third link same story, claims discrimination but doesn't demonstrate it.
Fourth link describes a party of people being turned away from a restaurant. The establishment claim it was due to dress code, the party who were denied claim it was due to racism. Neither position has been proven by that article.
Do you understand the difference between what I linked and what you linked? My example from China had a sign literally saying "No black people" so it's indisputable that discrimination was the cause. Every one of your examples involves claims with no hard evidence to back it up.
And you are willfully choosing to misunderstand that racism is not the same as outright discrimination, and that privilege which is topic at hand is relative. Also discrimination like what happened in China is not permitted in most western countries.
The Canadian Human Rights Act is a broad-reaching piece of legislation that prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender, race, ethnicity and other grounds
The US has the Racial Discrimination Act 1975; the Sex Discrimination Act 1984; the Fair Work Act 2009; the Anti-Discrimination Act 1977.
https://myfox8.com/news/oklahoma-restaurant-owners-says-he-wont-serve-gay-or-black-customers/
So, no business can lawfully ban people based on skin colour. Do you understand how that is different? This is where the privilege comes in. It is unspoken, but understood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlRxqC0Sze4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwIx3KQer54
Also discrimination like what happened in China is not permitted in most western countries
Almost as if there's no systemic racism in the west...
The Canadian Human Rights Act is a broad-reaching piece of legislation that prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender, race, ethnicity and other grounds
The US has the Racial Discrimination Act 1975; the Sex Discrimination Act 1984; the Fair Work Act 2009; the Anti-Discrimination Act 1977.
Almost as if there's no systemic racism in the west...
So, no business can lawfully ban people based on skin colour.
Almost as if there's no systemic racism in the west...
The Oklahoma restaurant link is unavailable in my country so I cannot view it but as you have already demonstrated, it's illegal for him to not serve black or gay customers. That's not systemic either, just a bigoted business owner.
At the risk of repeating myself I entirely reject your concept of privilege, I have already researched intersectionality and CRT and it is just junk grievance ideology. I will not be consuming any of your ideological material. share
So you refuse to read anything that differs from what you already believe, and then say that I'm conversing dishonestly?
Got it.
No, I told you I have already researched it on my own. I was calling CRT junk ideology and Ibram X Kendi a hack back in 2020 when I first looked into it and I haven't changed my mind. It's like when you walk down the street and step in dog shit one day. You don't need to closely investigate the next pile of dog shit you encounter to already know that you don't want to step in it.
shareBlackMass asked a valid question. How do you explain why Asians and Indians have done so well in America? Surely the racist white supremacists hate them, too. Vietnamese families, who washed ashore in homemade boats with nothing have become wealthy in the span of one generation. Chinese and Indian immigrants who came here, again with nothing, and lived in squalor, sometimes with 15 people sharing a one-bedroom apartment, are now millionaires. Japanese families who left internment camps to find their property had been claimed by squatters, and had to start over homeless and broke-- again, within a generation upper middle class and/or wealthy. Is the systemic racism you detect pro-white and pro-Asian, and only anti-black?
shareYeah if that were true poverty would not breed crime.
shareI’m sure I’m not the only one but, I get your ironic post which was very effective
share