He killed a man that only needed his ass kicked - Sling Blade (1997) Discussion

[–] kbarada 13 years ago

First, I think Karl wanted to be sure he was placed back in the "nervous hospital" for such an outrageous act as that was what got him committed the first time. Secondly, he wanted to be sure that Doyle would be out of the picture forever. An ass kicking was not going to accomplish what he needed.

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[–] VideoGamesareReel 13 years ago

That's f'ed up. Doyle was an asswipe but in no way did he disserve to be killed. I loved Karl until that point.

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[–] kbarada 13 years ago

Yeah you are right...Doyle didn't deserve to die. I don't think it even crossed Karl's mind if Doyle deserved to die. Karl was focused on solving his own problems: Going back to the hospital and making sure Doyle wouldn't be in the picture anymore. Had nothing to do with Doyle "deserving" to die at all.

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[–] electrictroy 8 years ago

WHEN HE HIT THE KID that is when somebody should have shot him. It would be declared an act of self-defense by the prosecutor (or jury). We have the right to kill people if they threaten to kill us, or one of our children
.

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[–] EddieAdamsFromTorrance 12 years ago

But this is art. It is not built to please you, it is created to tell a story of truth, and it is more honest that Karl would kill the man.

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[–] Gunslinger1919 11 years ago

This.

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Before you jump on me, know this: I rarely think things through before posting.

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[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] StinkyPoopyPants (3114) 2 months ago

I disagree. Doyle's behavior would have most likely ended up in Frank and his mother's death. He was incredibly unstable, both emotionally and physically. He threatened them all. He put his hands on the boy.

Men and women like that can rot in hell

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[–] Sparky (2612) 2 months ago

It's almost as if his mind was compromised or something eh?

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[–] Trollhater87 13 years ago

Attempt at an Oscar winning script.

And of course he won

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[–] Reading_Rainbow 12 years ago

if you remember, doyl did have his ass kicked by the kid and still continued to be a drunken monster. i'm glad karl killed him. it was the right thing to do.

1.61803399

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[–] kbarada 12 years ago

I think most viewers of the movie would agree R & R. I for one was glad to see him get his due. I just don't think Karl was exactly thinking that way. (See my post above)

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[–] Reading_Rainbow 12 years ago

yeah i read your post. i'm in agreement with your assessment!

1.61803399

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[–] tishame 12 years ago

i think that karl wanted to make sure that the boy didn't end up like him. if you take the talk they had at the river's edge you'll realize the boy was having some of the same feelings karl had at that age. i think he "sacrifice" (karl) himself so the boy would grow up happy. He didn't want the boy to take matters into his own hands. And end up like himself (hence the "bookmark")

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[–] ThEjOkErIsWiLd 12 years ago

Exactly, Karl simply didn't want Frank to live under Doyle's thumb the same way he had to grow up under the thumb of his father, plus maybe Karl just couldn't see any other solution than to eliminate Doyle completely.

In shape? I'm in perfect shape! er... round's a shape, isn't it?

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[–] MargeGunderson-Brainerd 12 years ago

I've seen this movie dozens of times as it's one of my favorites, and never once did it even enter my mind Karl wanted to go back to the nervous hospital, especially since he was just blooming so beautifully, (however belated for the poor guy), having a man's job with a boss who respects and appreciates him, a family in Frank and his mom and Vaughan, etc.

I thought he sacrificed all of that out of his (platonic, fatherly) love for Frank, and here's where we go from polar opposite to exact agreement :D
His primary goal was to save Frank and his mother from that sadistic b****** Doyle and he loved at least Frank, and through him, probably his mother, enough to make that huge sacrifice.

He said a couple of times that Frank was just a boy and ought not to be having the thoughts of wanting Doyle dead; Frank still needed to be a carefree kid while he still was a kid, so Karl took care of the monster that was crushing Frank's childhood just like his own was, and this way wouldn't cost Frank the best 25 years of his life like Karl's had been.

But I have the DVD in now so I'll look for clues that he actually wanted to go back to the nervous hospital as one of his primary goals, in addition to wanting that toxic POS Doyle out of Frank's life.

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[–] kbarada 12 years ago

Very thoughtful analysis marge. I agree that Karl wanted to protect the boy. Other than Karl's killing his mother and lover while in a mental state of shock, murder was just not something he would do for hatred, revenge, or because he just didn't like a person. Remember he confronted his father and did not kill him. Can you imagine the feelings he had for his father?

I still think he killed Doyle to save Linda and, like you said, the boy. By doing so, he achieved his other goal of returning to the hospital. There he felt safe and that he was not likely to get tangled up in the affairs of the outside world. He could not trust himself to not somehow wind up killing someone out there. Killing Doyle was just a means to that end.

Haven't seen the movie for a while. You may have it right after all. Let me know what you think after watching it again.

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[–] MargeGunderson-Brainerd 12 years ago

OK, got nearly to the end and still hadn't seen anything indicating he wanted to go back to the nervous hospital (sorry, I just really like that term! :D).

THEN... when that psychotic freak asked him what it was like out there, he said "It was too big."

So yes, you absolutely have a point! He could have thought that looking back over his final moments on the outside, but could just as likely, if not even more so, have decided that when considering what to do about Doyle.

Thanks for your insight; you made me think and that's nearly always a good thing.

Having had a real father a lot like Doyle, Karl is my hero on several fronts.

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[–] kbarada 12 years ago

Thanks for your thoughts. Karl is one of the great screen portrayals of all time. Just when we think we have him figured out, something else about him pops up and it's back to square one. One thing for sure, he is loveable and an outstanding human being given all he had gone through. You have to admire that!

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[–] unknown_soul278 11 years ago

Wow I must be completely misunderstanding. I thought Karl voluntarily going back to the hospital and telling his doctor he wanted to come back was an indication of just that. The Doyle situation gave him an opportunity to kill two birds with one blade...

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[–] MargeGunderson-Brainerd 12 years ago

And you are spot on about Karl and his feces pile excuse for a father. The first few times I watched this, I was hoping he'd sling blade that b*****d too, but that he chose not to showed Karl's gentle nature and surprisingly deep insight for his lack of life experience.

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[–] kbarada 12 years ago

Robert Duvall played that character chillingly well. I have known some sorry S.O.B.s just like him over the years.

I'm all fired up now. I've got to watch this movie again!

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[–] uglyitab 9 years ago

This is exactly how I've always interpreted it!

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[–] uglyitab 9 years ago

Having a father like Doyle (mercifully bailed on family when I was 11), I completely agree he had it coming and should be grateful it was reasonably quick.

That scene dumping gravy on Frank's plate when Frank made it clear he didn't want any, ruining his food just to be a sadistic, controlling bully brings back so many memories, and that sick, knotted gut I always had as a kid, even 40 years later.

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[–] PenTheater 12 years ago

In the Director's cut Karl walks towards the house, then past it for several feet. Pauses, and then walks back. Even Karl was not sure it was what he needed to do.
(from this commentary)
Thorton thought it was an important part of Karl's character, but someone else wanted it cut.
Thorton also did NOT want the scene where Karl sharpened the blade. I think because it added to the idea of premeditation too strongly. Sure it was premeditated, but not quite as blunt (pun) as the original editing.

Yes it was also to get Karl back in his "home"
and yes it was a sacrifice.
The only "real" sacrifice in story telling involves death of something doesn't it?

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[–] Ironman54 12 years ago

It initially struck me as evidence of premeditation but having thought about it more, it could have been just as easily that Karl was just doing his job (sharpening blades is part of the business) and while doing this repetitive, tedious job, his mind wandered and a light went off in his head (no 'dim bulb' jokes please) .... 'use this blade to kill Doyle'.
No doubt the way the scenes played out it did appear that he was sharpening that blade for only one purpose. But, had he worked for a gun dealer and part of his job was to clean guns, it might not appear so premeditated - just because he was cleaning a gun wouldn't necessarily mean he was doing so to commit murder with it. Now had he worked at the Dollar Store and he was sharpening the blade like that, a different story. Just a thought ...

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[–] WhenGreyjoysCry 12 years ago

Wrong. He did have to die. Ultimately Dwight would have killed the mom and probably the kid. The police only react. They wouldn't do anything until he killed them. To set her and the kid free, Karl did the only thing that could be done.

“There are no ordinary moments. There is always something going on.” – Peaceful Warrior

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[–] matt-2819 12 years ago

What do you mean? Doyle said during the movie (I believe on two occasions) that she could never leave him or he would kill her. I don't remember the line exactly, but during the blow up after the band played Vaughn said something along the lines that he was a witness of the threat when Doyle made it. It angered Doyle and he went after Vaughn. I think there was no doubt in Karl's mind that Doyle would brutalize and maybe kill Linda and Frank at some point. Not to mention, when Vaughn was having lunch with Karl he said that he believed some day Doyle was going to hurt them very bad and said he thought he may be psychic. Even if you don't believe he would have (I tend to think there was a strong likelihood of it happening), to someone like Karl it must have seemed almost like a guarantee. He couldn't take that chance. Not after someone treated him the way the mother and son did. For the first time in his life someone not only accepted him like he was, but genuinely cared for him. I have no problem believing Karl did what he did out of love for those two. Doyle may not have deserved death, but those two didn't deserve the abuse they went through, either.

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[–] bsharporflat 12 years ago

Yes. Giving the "ass-kicking" statement I have to conclude the OP is upset because he is too much like Doyle himself and didn't like to see one of his own kind killed for doing the same things he does on a daily basis.

The movie made it clear that Karl was left with one choice to save this family. I'm not even sure he fully wanted to get back to the "nervous hospital". He might have been happy staying with Frank and Linda and Vaughn and his new girlfriend if Doyle hadn't been in the picture.

But, as it happened, he killed two birds with one st...errr...lawnmower blade. He got rid of Doyle and went back to the institution. But it was clear his experience changed him. He was no longer willing to listen to the sexual molestor/murderer talk about his exploits.

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[–] devast8shn 12 years ago

I agree the OP is probably a tool that sympathizes with losers like Doyle. People like Doyle don't change they only get worse. He was friends with the chief of police in a small town so he had an easy out no matter how badly he treated Linda or the boy, an "ass-kicking would only have enraged Doyle even further and cowardly people like that would take it out on the weaker people in their lives such as a woman or a kid...Karl did what was right.

I'd tell you don't quit your day job but you're awful at that too!-Bender B Rodriguez

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[–] VideoGamesareReel 12 years ago

You morons do realise this was only a movie, right? And if you think the best why the handle an asswipe of a person is to take a blade to his skull, then I truly fear for our society.

You're a dumbass.

Reader discretion is advised

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[–] Melton (4477) 2 months ago

‘Asswipe’ hardly describes a psychotic, manipulative bullying alcoholic who abuses his woman and her kid and threatens to kill them. Doyle was an evil sack of shit and he deserved a fucking lawnmower blade through the skull.

If anything he got off easy.

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[–] Jeezy-Creezy 12 years ago

I guess you could say that the ending was inevitable. Mostly because Billy Bob had a particular set of skills.. well, just one skill basically :)

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[–] kbarada 12 years ago

MmmmHmmm...I prefer a Kaiser blade, some folks call it a sling blade, but I learnt that a lawn mower blade will work just as well...MmmmHmmm.

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[–] smigrobustus 12 years ago

He killed him NOT for what Doyle had done, but for WHAT he was gonna do.....and that doesn't mean physical violence either. If Doyle was allowed to live , that little boys life would be screwed up for ever.....and Karl wanted the kid to live a Happy life, NOT one full of misery like his........

YOU WILL BE HAPPY. As in his bookmark.....

That didnt mean that the boy would be happy just because Doyle got wacked....it mean

You WILL be happy.....as in happy for your life time.....and it was a COMMAND, not a casual statement.

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[–] hodie 12 years ago

Oh, man, that "YOU WILL BE HAPPY" gets me every time! :')

"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

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[–] jakebustern 12 years ago

I think this was a great movie.I'm not gonna make that kind of judgement because I wasn't there.
Maybe sometimes an ass-kicking just wont get the job done.
Maybe some people are here to keep others strait.
M-hmmmmmmmmmm.

Semper Fidelis

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[–] sandifay62 12 years ago

People were pleased with the ending because they didn't like Doyle and felt Doyle was dangerous. but the point of the ending was that Karl is a problem solver with limited ability to understand Doyle's drunken sarcasm and understand that he has no right to kill anyone.

The kid, the mom, and Doyle never knew the details of what he did to his mother and her lover because the thought they were bad. They liked him and saw his caring side and assumed everything else.

The point was that Karl should never have been released and isn't "curable". He fixed the boy's problem and got himself back where he really wanted to live, but he has no concept that murder isn't an option even if it feels justified.

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[–] bhoover247 12 years ago

Well said. Karl was great at solving the problems with the lawnmowers. He tried to transfer this same ability to people. I think that in Karl's mind the problem of Doyle had been solved. Karl did not have the ability to see what the results of his actions would have on the mother and even the little boy himself, who will certainly be tramautized by the murder, even though he hates the victim.

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[–] Melton (4477) 2 months ago

You weaklings are a fascinating breed. Evil scum like Doyle need to die, Karl stepped up. If he hadn’t then a life of hell awaited Linda and Frank, with a strong possibility of murder. It’s disturbing that you want creatures like Doyle to inflict their brutality on good people.

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[–] Gordon_Gartrelle 12 years ago

This case has Jack Mccoy from Law and Order all over it.
You can't kill someone for what you think he may do.

You don't know me.
You only think you do.

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