MovieChat Forums > Rob Roy (1995) Discussion > Are Brits EVER the good guys?

Are Brits EVER the good guys?

posted 13 years ago by SteveH2002
51 replies | jump to latest

Loved the movie, and I'm an American with no vested interest, but why do these period pieces seem always to make the identifably British the bad guys?

Tim Roth in this movie is a typical example of the type. Foppish, mentions somewhere in the film something about learning to speak with the 'proper lisp,' another character calls his sexual orientation into question, he has the sexual morals or a tom cat, hits bound men who can't hit back, etc.

And if there's a movie about the crucifixtion 9 times out of 10 Pontius Pilate has and Oxford accent.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Mithrandir-Olorin2 12 years ago

Most rational people are inclined to root for the invaded over the invader, the occupied over the occupier, and so on. Rebels whoa re right in principle can still commit atrocities and war crimes, and that's kind of acknowledged, but the underdog is who fans want to root for usually.

With Historical fiction anyway, contemporary fiction is filled in every era including under British Imperialism which examples of writers vilifying those rebelling against occupation. This also includes our modern War on Terror.

"When the chips are down... these Civilized people... will Eat each Other"

[–] ContinentalOp 12 years ago

''Rebels whoa re right in principle can still commit atrocities and war crimes''

I agree with this, it is a sad reality of war. Guerrilla fighters, for instance, are often violent especially as they are unable to take prisoners.

''With Historical fiction anyway, contemporary fiction is filled in every era including under British Imperialism which examples of writers vilifying those rebelling against occupation. This also includes our modern War on Terror.''

I don't agree here. British Imperialism does play a part in the WOT, but US Imperialism even more so.

''Churchill added to those sins helping bring WWII about''

I'll not argue against that. He also suggested gassing African natives.

''he Scottish people where oppressed by the British Empire, regardless of their Monarch being technically united. James I actually did not want them permanently united.''

Agreed, but only as much as England as a whole was too. Northumberland, Yorkshire and anywere outside of London rarely benefited from empire. That said, we all benefited more than those outside of Great Britain.

''But once the Glorious Revolution happened and then the Bank of England was set up Scotland became an occupied territory, regardless of what propaganda says.''

Scotland has as much hand in the oppression of all subjects under the empire as England does. Some of the major orchestrator of the Empire were from Scotland. It is very wrong, and a form of propaganda, to think that England occupies and oppresses Scotland. And the English people never asked to be ruled by a Scottish monarch in the first place. Fact is that the house of Stuart believed in the concept of Britain as a country and thus just say England, Wales and Scotland as the same land. Of course, London would benefit more than other areas as it was a capital. To say that Edinburgh didn't benefit from being the capital of the north, and home to one of the major universities in Great Britain (and one of the primary reasons many Scots were leaders of the Empire) would be a fallacy.

Formerly KingAngantyr

[–] pambosk 12 years ago

I have to agree with you entirley. It seems the world over the bad guy has always a British accent ( Die Hard ). The film reminded me of an old Bruce Lee movie ( the Big Boss ), everything that Rob does goes wrong. Jessica Lang stole the film for me together with Tim Roth. Am surprised the film did as well as it did, as this type of story line can be used in any film, western, crime movie,Sci Fi. Maybe America should redo this film having red indians instaed of Scots, and Americans instead of British

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 12 years ago

It seems the world over the bad guy has always a British accent ( Die Hard ).

I'll just mention again that the villain in Die Hard was supposed to be, and sound, German.

(By the way, when did the people who live in the northernmost third of Great Britain cease to be "British"? Either somebody means "English," or I missed a really important memo.)

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Lazy + smart = efficient.

[–] pambosk 12 years ago

Yes the guy had a German accent but the actor was British. British actors are always the villains so the American public can tell who the good guys are and the bad guys. As in the first Rush Hour movie, you made the chinese crook have red hair so he would stand out.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 12 years ago

Yes the guy had a German accent but the actor was British.

So? The character wasn't and neither was the accent he used (or at least it wasn't supposed to be), so clearly Alan Rickman wasn't cast because they wanted a "British bad guy" and he obviously isn't an illustration of what the OP was trying to complain about. Surely you can think of a better example.

As in the first Rush Hour movie, you made the chinese crook have red hair so he would stand out.

Okay, maybe you can't.

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Lazy + smart = efficient.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 12 years ago

[T]his type of story line can be used in any film, western, crime movie,Sci Fi. Maybe America should redo this film having red indians instaed of Scots, and Americans instead of British

Perhaps you weren't aware that Michael Caton-Jones was deliberately trying to make an American-style Western set in Scotland.

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Lazy + smart = efficient.

[–] radamsenior 11 years ago

This has been a trend in recent years, particularly with Hollywood movies. I think it is just an extension of the black hat/white hat of the cowboy films of my youth. It is a simple way of identifying the villain. Meaning no offence I think American audiences in particular prefer things kept nice and simple and the present system is...evil? British, or more properly, English. I am yet to see any REAL villain roles portrayed as Scots....and those that are tend to have Scottish accents that have NEVER seen Scotland. Surprisingly the worst of the Scots accents in American film IS a Scot, Gerard Butler. Reasonably good actor, but God alone only knows where his Hollywood/Scots accent comes from. Mind you, I blame Billy Connolly, if ANYONE spoke like him in Glasgow ( where he comes from ) he would be wearing his balls as earrings! A TOTALLY fabricated accent. The English, non regional accent tends to be quite clear and easily understood, and yet still foreign to the American ear, so it works. A Genuine Scots accent from MOST regions, would likely be unintelligible to most Yanks. ( before I am accused of racism, I AM a Glasgow Scot )

[–] Artemis_Rules 11 years ago

Well, the English have a long history of imperialism. They didn't (don't) treat the Irish, Scottish, native americans, Indians or 'later' Americans very well.

So a lot of stories or historical events can easily put them out to be bad since they subjugated a lot of different people.
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religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] Flanged 11 years ago

Archibald Cunningham was Scottish, though, wasn't he?

The clue's in the name.

It is implied that he was raised at court in England, and thoroughly "Anglicized" there, developing his extravagant aristocratic mannerisms - which the average person in England would certainly not have shared, then or now - before being sent back to the country of his birth because of some crime or outrage he had committed in England. I'm pretty sure he's meant to be Scottish by descent, birth, etc. He's one of those Scotsmen who obviously has a low opinion of his own country, and it's people, and would've agreed with Samuel Johnson that: "the noblest prospect a Scots man ever sees is the high road that leads to England."

But he's still Scottish.

Of course, that still makes him British as well. But the character and the portrayal are not anti-English in any way, they are just anti-aristocrat to an extent, and anti-sociopath.

Can you imagine how much duller the film would be if Cunningham was just a standard Lord's henchman like Guthrie?
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[–] 11 years ago

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