MovieChat Forums > Powder (1995) Discussion > How can a beautiful film be made by a m...

How can a beautiful film be made by a monster?

posted 17 years ago by sun_scryer
37 replies | jump to latest

that is the overall tragedy of this film for me. it has touched so many lives and left so many people in tears and with a sense of sacred holiness (i don't know how else to describe it) for the beauty that can be found within it -- and yet it was made by someone who sexually preyed upon children.

i will never rent this movie or buy it, because i do not want any money to go to victor salva. perhaps if there was a guarantee, in the future, that 100% of profits would go to benefit victims of sexual abuse... then maybe i would feel better about allowing my children or young family members to view this film.

[–] littlecouchboy-1 17 years ago

I understand how upset this can make people. There is nothing anyone can do to actually atone for such a hideous crime. But the fact of the matter is that people are not perfect. Some are easily more flawed than others. What Victor Salva did was beyond evil but that does not mean that the film he made can't be beautiful. Furthermore, Salva is not the only person who made the movie great.

Refusing to watch buy or rent the film based on one person's unimaginable character flaw is no reason to disdain the work of Sean Patrick Flanery, Dennis M. Hill, and Riley Kathryn Ellis. There are a number of artists throughout history that have committed far more heinous acts in their time but no one seems care. My feeling is, don't punish the art because the creator has evil inside him.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] jmarkoff2 15 years ago

Horrible people can make great films. Probably every movie has a criminal somewhere in its cast and crew list.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] mw3051-1 10 years ago

Horrible people can make great films. Probably every movie has a criminal somewhere in its cast and crew list.

indeed.

to say you hate the movie because someone connected to the movie did something you do not approve of, is very closed minded.

there is no work of art that could not be linked to someone that did something you would not like.

[–] dcobbimdb 9 years ago

I personally liked the movie but had no clue about the director until reading a few things here on IMDB after. I haven't taken it upon myself to research any further as I really don't care to. Sometimes ignorance is bliss

[–] casak36 8 years ago

I don't like many things. But pedophilia is pretty much the top layer.

I don't like thieves. I don't like murderers. I don't like liver and onions.

I despise pedophiles.

[–] cheedo 11 years ago

There's nothing "beyond" evil. And as the other person said, every filmmaker probably has done something. Heck, every human being has done something wrong, be it a "white lie" to something like this.

Why did you get an F in English? DO YOU WANT THE BRITISH TO WIN???/? -George Washington?

[–] FEL123_2000 15 years ago

One thing to keep in mind is that sexual predators, abusers, etc. are that way because someone did the same thing to them. That is just how humans work. Those who are preyed upon become predators.

Listen to "Loveline" with Dr. Drew Pinsky and you learn a lot about it. I would guess that Drew would certainly say that Salva was sexually abused as a child.

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"If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything." -George McFly

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] thenicotinefairy 13 years ago

That is a myth actually.

[–] tindog 13 years ago

It's not a myth, it's a generality... not always true, like some would like you to believe, but not always untrue either.

[–] thenicotinefairy 13 years ago

It can sometimes be true, obviously. However, victims of abuse are statistically the least likely demographic to commit abuse themselves. Predators do what they do because they feel entitled to. It's a myth that they have low self-esteem. Quite the opposite, they believe that they are superior to their victims. Look into the work of Lundy Bancroft, he covers this.

[–] Quabaqui 13 years ago

bahh, AGAIN a myth.

Here is the truth:
There is no such thing as self-education; especially if you skip the core material and go straight for the "for dummies" books. You're only reading propaganda for a particular viewpoint, there are thousands of them! Some authors even use references that are meant to contradict what they are saying... even if the sentence following the quotation is extremely damning to their argument.

Of course, at the end of it all, you'll find that "there are certain behavioral patterns generally, but not always, associated with [...] but the environmental and genetic factors do not strongly coincide."

Lots of bickering... fun!

[–] janekrahe 15 years ago

A person's art is seperate from thier life. I can enjoy a beautiful piece of art no matter what the person who made it has done.

One thing about Santa Carla I never could stomach - all the damn vampires.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Chessclubkillah 15 years ago

It's an unfortunate thing, evil. It doesn't daint the movie in my eyes though.

[–] bhansel 15 years ago

Than i have to ask the orignal poster do you also not watch any Roman Polanski films?

not that im saying what the director did is right, it isnt. but you should be able to seperate art from the artist's personal life.

[–] red_rackham_77 14 years ago

I know what you mean, I feel the same way about the movies Rosemary's baby and The Pianist, Roman Polanski is a monster and a cowardly one too because he choses to run and hide from the law rather take the consequences of his actions.

You can buy or rent the movie, I can promise you, no money will go to Salva because after his prison term, he has absolutely nothing in his pocket, the man can't even get a job without his past coming to bite him in the ass. I wish the bastard has been sent to prison already but we got the best of Hollywood supporting him including Woody Allen.

I know it is hard to accept but I guess it shows that monsters have the ability to make a beautiful story. Though I want every pedophile gang-raped twice aday till their releases.

[–] ManFromSanFernando 11 years ago

Wow, you sound very civilized.

[–] this_is_the_way_the_world_ends 14 years ago

Because he's not a monster- he's a human being that's F'd up. He has strengths and weaknesses and most likely was a victim himself at some point.
_______
F,36
The night Max wore his wolf suit and made mischief of one kind and another

[–] RandomUsername010 14 years ago

Both Dr Fred Berlin, a psychologist specializing in sex offenders and Steven Ing, a therapist specialist in sex offenders both state that sex offenders can be rehabilitated. We don't let the media control our minds on anything else, we only let it control us on this subject because of our own high level of emotions. We don't want to help sex offenders get better because that would mean we support them, but this would ultimately be the best way to protect victims. Rehabilitating sex offenders automatically protects victims. The test is if society can overcome it's hurt and pain to reach this conclusion before it's too late.

[–] MyOpinions 14 years ago

I don't believe sex offenders can be rehabilitated. The media has nothing to do with it. These people are attracted to children, or sexually aroused by raping women due to anger issues and other assorted problems. It's similar to relgious groups claiming they can change homosexuals (I'm not calling them criminals and am for gay rights, just making a point) by brainwashing them. They may actually believe it themselves but the reality is that, underneath it all, the real attraction is still there. That's like saying you or I could be made to be changed from liking who we are attracted to; the opposite sex, in my case. It could even seem that way, but the reality is just bubbling beneath the surface.

I've already seen the worst movie ever made, so it can only be uphill from there.

[–] Gary-161 14 years ago

I was watching this movie and thinking, "What is this sacharine dreck? It's just the pits." Then Victor Salva's name came up and I burst out laughing. Explains that sudden incongruous male voyeurism scene. Needless to say, the lead character is a Christ figure who can heal the earth. Reminded me of that infamous Michael Jackson performance at the Brit awards. What is it with these paedo guys?

Apparently a child psychologist who saw this film found it consistant with the child molester's view of themselves as beautiful, special people who are too sensitive to be appreciated by a prejudiced world. The hairlessness, especially the scene where Powder is stripped and his white penis examined, is further grist to the mill.

The fact that Walt Disney financed this nauseating PR exercise is priceless. Salva is still working in the biz where no doubt his obsessions are still very much to the fore.

[–] jbhutt0 13 years ago

This is a good question, OP.

To respond to Gary-161 though, I've seen most of Victor Salva's films(not purposely though), and whether consciously or unconsciously, a lot of the themes/motifs/imagery seem to stem from his pedophilia. Jeepers Creepers 1-2, a monster that preys on children, Peaceful Warrior, an old man mentors a young boy, the boy also fights against his "shadow" self at one point if I'm not mistaken, effectively exercising his demons.

To answer the initial question, I think that art or a message can transcend its creator and exist seperately from them. I might be stretching things a bit with this comparison, but there supposedly exist large amounts of FBI files on Martin Luther King JR and his infedility and other shortcomings. I'm not sure if these files have been released yet but they were previously sealed until quite a ways into the future, likely to preserve King's legacy and dodge the potential fallout.

To get to my point, do you think that anything they could potentially reveal about MLK now would have any effect whatsoever on the final outcome of the Civil Rights Movement? Do the ideals he stood for become any less true or just because of the actions of one man?

And yes, I realize that comparing MLK and Civil Rights Movement to a pedophiliac horror movie director is quite a stretch. I think it would be more relevant to apply this to someone like Roman Polanski, who has made films that are considered masterpieces. It's a difficult subject though. Vincent Van Gogh is still as synonymous with his Starry Night as he is known for cutting his ear off.

For the final word though, even if we as spectators can't separate the art from the artist within our own minds, doesn't mean that they don't exist as separate entities.

As an addendum, in an interview with David Lynch, he describes meditation and compares creativity to fishing. The thought being that the ideas existed before they were "caught". Jack White, musician of The White Stripes fame, describes creativity in a similar way, he says that musicians don't so much create songs as they guide them into existence. I understand that these comparisons verge a bit into the metaphysical realm but it's another way to look at the subject.

[–] Howlin Wolf 12 years ago

Very easily, the art is not the artist.

Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me

[–] thebo6 12 years ago

Like most humans these days victor was trapped in the illusion of his mind at the time he carried out his acts. Through his time in prison he became enlightened and realised his true nature and that acting out on his thoughts and desires during those past actions was not who he actually was.

His Films like powder and peaceful warrior show he is awakened with his true nature. Im not defending him or his actions, he still has to live with consequences of past actions.

Anyone spiritually awakened to their true nature realises the truth in this post.

For others in suffering or unhappy in life i suggest reading "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. Will change your life if your ready for it.