MovieChat Forums > Kids (1995) Discussion > The rape scene (spoilers obviously)

The rape scene (spoilers obviously)

posted 16 years ago by grinderVegan765
41 replies | jump to latest

Soooo what's everyones thoughts on the scene at the end, where Casper (Justin Pierce) rapes Jenny (Chloe Sevigny)?

It's kind of torn me. On the one hand I think it was out of character for Casper, he seemed like a sweetheart no-hoper stoner, and would never put a girl in that situation despite talking himself up to his mates. I felt like it was just put there to add shock value and join the "circle of AIDs".

Then again, the whole film, Telly (Leo Fitzpatrick) is boasting of his conquests (including Jenny, who it looks like Casper has a bit of lust for and is jealous of Telly for f!cking) to Casper, who, despite being infinitely better looking, sweeter and likable and sexy, seems to have trouble with the ladies. I think he kind of looks up to Telly for being such a player and wants to mimic his ways, and wants Jenny. Added to that is that sex was such a common thing (rape didn't seem to be in the characters vocabulary), Casper probably didn't realise the severity or consequences of his actions, plus he was pretty wasted.

So what do you think. Is the rape scene just put in as shock value and to bring the AIDs full circle, or do you think it's consistent to the character of Casper?

Fellow Australians. If you are seeing me now, it means I have been murdered.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bujinbudoka 16 years ago

I think aside from shock value it was also to show the consequences of living the lifestyle that they lead, all of them. Kind of like a circle that never ends but goes back to square one. Telly gave Jennie and two other girls in the movie HIV (or its supposed to appear that way) and on top of that his actions ended up destroying his life, Jennie's and now because of that Casper's, even though Casper did rape Jennie WHILE DRUNK AND NOT AWARE OF WHAT HE WAS DOING. That doesn't really excuse it but think about how he was trying to assure her it was him all the way through the whole scene.

God Bless,

Randall

[–] puschit-1 16 years ago

Mostly for shock value and forcing down morals our throat. Otherwise the scene would have been way shorter and less graphic.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lschwei 16 years ago

So, two of you in this thread don't think that was a rape scene??? We are talking about Larry Clark's "Kids," right? Wow, that's pretty disturbing....'cause you two are real people behind those pseudonyms.

If you're Americans, here's a federal definition:

"The Federal Criminal Code definition of sexual abuse includes:
Causing another person to engage in a sexual activity by threatening or placing that person in fear.
Engaging in a sexual act if that person is incapable of declining participation in, or communicating unwillingness to engage in that sexual act."

(source - http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/sa.shtml.)

This thread just freaked me out way more than that movie did....

[–] kaylala12 16 years ago

lschewi - i completely agree with you. How that scene CAN'T be construed as rape is beyond me. Just because it was a friend and she wasn't screaming NO NO NO, doesn't mean anything. Casper clearly took advantage of Jennie, even though he was wasted and not in a right state of mind, it's not an excuse and he raped her. She was in no state to consent. Not saying no doesn't mean yes.

[–] jay_guevara-1 16 years ago

lschewi & kindly_unspoken08 - agreed, you have to question the morals and perceptions of anyone who watches that scene and cannot identify what took place as rape. On the subject of Jennie not saying no, when I watched this on TV and on DVD, the subtitles show her as being semi-conscious of what was happening but unable to stop it because the subtitles list her as saying "No, don't".

I've never been able to hear it on the audio, so it must be a really low whisper or an insertion from the script. Did anyone else notice this?

[–] digital-demon 16 years ago

I heard it when I saw it in the theater and always pointed it out to people the first time they saw it because it is hard to hear. I always took it as her warning him because she knew she had HIV.

[–] Midwesternman 16 years ago

You must have a strange view of consensual sex then. Most people would say that someone that is passed out can't really give consent.

every day may not be good, but there is good in every day

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] vanillainflux 11 years ago

hey bobby - I'm going to get shift-faced and passed out and I want you to *beep* me while I'm passed out.

lol can you imagine that even ever happening?

i'm not saying it wasn't rape. i didn't hear a no; and people who have said they read a "no don't" on the subtitles means if there was one, it was meant to be quiet as hell. this was caspar doing it all to himself. by serving himself to his own sexual appetite (and taking advantage of a woman who was unconscious) he contaminated himself. it doesn't matter how low the % is that he would get his buddy's hiv (the irony) - the point is, this generation of men rampant on satisfying their own immediate sexual needs and having to live up the expected sexual bravado they carry around with them (along with young teenage girls and their complete inability to impose any sort of regulation and self standards on these lower working class/raised by single mum/too much free time on their hands/lack of aspiration/ wannabe street boys)

by acting in that selfish way that he does, he contracts what his buddy gave her. him fancying her a little, and being the cuter, nicer one of the pair, makes it all the more ironic. this entire environment is toxic, no matter how nice you are.

it's a dirty world Reich, say what you want

[–] Candice34 16 years ago

Firstly, I don't think it's for sure that he got AIDS. Even though Jenny had it, it's quite possible that it wasn't transmitted.
I think you are pretty dead on with your interpretation. But I do think that the rape scene was for shock value. It seems so unlike Casper's character to sleep rape someone.

I think Casper was a good guy living in a modern-barbaric world.

[–] grinderVegan765 16 years ago

I think the themes and attitude of thilm makes it pretty clear that he did get AIDs.

Okay, Mr. Intellectual, but Shakespeare wrote in English, not Japanese!!

[–] clouseau-4 11 years ago

She said she had sex, only once, with Telly, and she's HIV+. There was no other possible reason given (heroin addict, blood transfusion) for her being HIV+ except that she got it from Telly. He's HIV+ and going around having sex with 13 year olds with no protection.

It's spelled Raymond Luxury Yacht, but it's pronounced 'Throat-Warbler Mangrove'

[–] BewareOfTheAvalanche 10 years ago

One thing is the probability of getting HIV, and another one is filmmakers' intention. Because of the tone of the film, it's obvious he and Darcy catched it.

[–] Milkdoesabodygood 10 years ago

Did he NUT in her and get her pregnant?

Spoiler alert for them spoil sports out there! Y'all like spoiled milk, stop crying over it!

[–] weaselnutz 9 years ago

CAsper didnt get AIDs.

Virgins. I love em. No diseases, no loose as a goose pussy, no skank. No nothin. Just pure pleasure!

[–] megzorz 16 years ago

He didn't rape her. She was drunk.

You don't seem to understand. If the person is completely silent, you can still be charged with rape. Even if they're completely sober.

T~O
KBitch
Does that make me an accessory to cat rape?

[–] fatbastard321 15 years ago

So let me get this right....

You are saying that a man can have sex with a completely sober female, who gives no indication that she wants him to stop, and he can STILL be charged with rape?

I hope you are not being serious.

[–] paladin69_00 14 years ago

I've heard somewhere before that there are states that say even if the woman originally gives consent, then changes her mind WHILE you are doing her, she can actually charge you with rape. It was a number of years ago that I read about it, I wanna say around 2004 or so. This was an actual article in the news paper about a case in a New England state if I remember right. So yea, about the only way you can really protect yourself anymore from that kind of crap is make sure you have some kind of audio/video tape of the encounter I guess. Maybe a bowtie camera?!?!?!

[–] Viltrumite 14 years ago

Jesus, imagine having to get video footage of a girl's consent before sex.

"Why do you say this to me when you know I will kill you for it?"

[–] Sambaloelek 13 years ago

you should be fine as long as you don't rape(= forcing yourself upon a non-consenting person, male or female) anyone

idiots

[–] patronizing_bunnyrabbits 15 years ago

I think, sadly, a lot of boys are under the impression that rape consists of a woman screaming no & scratching, clawing, & fighting him off. There's even been a recent study that shows that if you ask questions describing the act of rape (ie, Have you ever engaged or tried to engage in intercourse with a heavily inebriated or unconscious girl? Have you every continued after a girl says no?), men are more likely to admit to being rapists than they would be if you actually use the word "rape." A lot of men have a very narrow definition of what rape actually is.

While Casper clearly rapes Jenny, I don't think he would think he did. In his mind, they were friends, & as far he was concerned, she would have likely consented if fully conscious. He may have actually believed, in his drunken state, that she possessed the physical & mental capacity to refuse him, if she'd been so inclined. He begins by repeating, "Jenny, wake up," and then as she begins to groan, showing signs of semi-consciousness, "Don't worry, Jenny. It's me, Casper." He thought what was he was doing was okay. And not in an evil, amoral way. Just a tragically misguided way. I don't think the rape scene is out of character for "sweetheart no-hoper stoner" Casper. I think Casper's a kid that doesn't think.

"Sacred cows make the best hamburger."

[–] metcaster1 14 years ago

A little modesty here... or was he so far gone that he had no idea what he was doing? It was the living room full of people..

[–] haliad 12 years ago

What was really disturbing for me was that he didn't really seem to understand that what he was doing was rape. I don't know if he was too intoxicated or just plain ignorant to realize that it was nonconsensual.

The rape was a very interesting way to end the film, illustrating how ignorant they all were to safe and consensual sex. Now they'll have to face the consequences of that kind of lifestyle (possibly contacting HIV).

[–] killerkitestrings 12 years ago

Yeah, he was probably my favorite character in the movie up until that point. I saw some good in him when he donated to that dude with no legs.

-------------------------------------

(-_-)

[–] scottieweiss 11 years ago

Well, he apparently doesn't see anything wrong with beating a stranger likely to death... It's not surprising he doesn't understand rape is an evil act either.

In a film where nice characters were the norm I think Casper would look despicable in comparison; it says much about the calibre of the dramatis personae in this movie that he's one of the *least* rotten.

[–] weaselnutz 11 years ago

It was in no shape or form rape. Casper told her "it's Me Casper" like 5 times and he was real gentle with her. Plus in the previous scene they hit it off in the bathroom when jenny was asking where telly was.

Virgins. I love em. No diseases, no loose as a goose pussy, no skank. No nothin. Just pure pleasure

[–] scottieweiss 11 years ago

Weasel: if one person subjects another to penetration without their consent (as Caspar did to Jenny) and it's also reasonable to expect him to have known she was not consenting (which it was; she was so out of it she didn't know what was happening) - it's rape.

No offense intended, but you're either trolling or ignorant. Or both.

[–] BeaverHole 11 years ago

Jenny did ask him to stop once or twice, but then she got into it. You could hear her moaning and breathing really hard. I think she wanted him to stop because of being HIV positive, but I think her body took control after a few seconds and that allowed Casper to finish the deed.

Formerly known as QuietlyFly

[–] weaselnutz 11 years ago

Jenny did ask him to stop once or twice, but then she got into it. You could hear her moaning and breathing really hard. I think she wanted him to stop because of being HIV positive, but I think her body took control after a few seconds and that allowed Casper to finish the deed.

We have a winner! Shakespear himself couldnt have penned that better!

Virgins. I love em. No diseases, no loose as a goose pussy, no skank. No nothin. Just pure pleasure!

[–] tjm2005 11 years ago

Of course he knew he was raping her. In that scene it was obvious in the very fact that he was very careful as to not wake her up. His whispering a few times to her was his test to see how unconscious she really was so he could proceed with the rape. He had no intentions of actually waking her up (to consent) and didn't want her to wake up. I thought that was pretty obvious.

[–] clouseau-4 11 years ago

I'm amazed that anyone posting here could possibly think this wasn't rape. He had sex with her without her consent, although she was barely conscious enough to slur "no" once or twice. It was "rape rape."

It's spelled Raymond Luxury Yacht, but it's pronounced 'Throat-Warbler Mangrove'

[–] shred-com 11 years ago

It was definitly rape. I can't even believe some of the replies in this thread. Also, how was it out of character? He nearly beat someone to death earlier in the film, said disgusting gay slurs to a gay couple walking down the street, stole drinks from a store and was nasty to the worker on the way out, and just had a truly awful mouth on him in general.