MovieChat Forums > Heat (1995) Discussion > Sympathy for Neil and his crew

Sympathy for Neil and his crew

posted 8 years ago by SnoozeAlarm
35 replies | jump to latest

I want to get people's opinions on what kind of people you can have sympathy for in a movie.

Neil and his crew are professional thieves and murderers. Is this sufficient for them to lose our sympathy?

In the old days of movies, the movies were made in a way that the audience would root for the "moral" person and be against the "immoral" person.

Aren't Neil and his crew as immoral as can possibly be?

If you can root for Neil and his crew, who is it that you would *not* root for in a movie?

Perhaps Hanna and Neil have similarities in their personalities, but Neil's whole purpose in life is to commit crimes for his own personal gain, and Hanna's whole purpose in life is to prevent these crimes. Doesn't that make Hanna infinitely more sympathetic than Neil?

What is it about the movie that makes people sympathetic towards Neil and his crew even though they are criminals?

Scariest words in English: We’re from the federal government and we’re here to help. R. Reagan

[–] Weber4278 8 years ago

Its usually just the sign of a well written character, a one dimensional moustache twirling baddie won't make you feel anything but disgust. But real people are more complex then that, and characters that mirror more real people take on those shades of grey that exist in reality.

A character like Neil for example...you can aknowledge the bad things he does, he's a criminal, a killer, etc. Yet also see that he has some good in him too...his relationship with Eady for example shows he has the ability to care about another person that's important to him. We see his loyalty to his friends, even though they are all criminals they have a sense of friendship.

It is the good traits, the relatable traits in villianous characters that makes us like them, and want to root for them despite the bad things that they do.

Hope that helped, I personally felt Neils death was deserved but at the same time I also wished he could have gotten away. I liked both Neil (despite being a villian) and Hanna and felt the end scene between them was sort of touching in a twisted way.

[–] SnoozeAlarm 8 years ago

Great post. I think it's a fascinating topic and hope others will weigh in with their thoughts.

Scariest words in English: We’re from the federal government and we’re here to help. R. Reagan

[–] ck100 8 years ago

This movie shows you that these criminals are guys who are married, have kids, hang out with each other, etc. just like other guys even though what they do for a living is wrong, immoral, etc.

[–] SnoozeAlarm 8 years ago

>>> hang out with each other, etc.

What the *beep* is that? Barbecues and ballgames?

Scariest words in English: We’re from the federal government and we’re here to help. R. Reagan

[–] christiannyblom 8 years ago

Basically yes. Ballgames and s**t. They also go to dinner with all their wifes and kids. Chris crashes on Neil's couch. They're not just a bunch of stone cold killers who work together only for mutual benefits. They're also friends. It makes the movie a lot better in my opinion. Real life criminals also have personal relationships, kids etc. Personally I still don't root for them. But it makes them more relatable, which in turn makes for a more multidimentional plot.

[–] Hookpunch 8 years ago

Well one thing that helps is they want to impart their own form of justice on Waingro.

[–] Hookpunch 8 years ago

Mann has always focused on character studies between his action scenes, it isn't so much sympathy for Neil as its possible to relate to him.

The same as The Godfather, criminals we regard as heroes because Coppola spent a large part of the film letting the audience get to know the characters

[–] franzkabuki 8 years ago

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta mang.

"facts are stupid things" Ronald Reagan

[–] roland-rockerfella 8 years ago

Simply because they were well written, well acted multi layered characters. They came a cross as real people and you can always relate to real people. Remember how pissed off Neil was when the three security guards in the armoured car were killed, he didn't want to kill them and was felling remorse at having to do it.

[–] justxme 8 years ago

Remember how pissed off Neil was when the three security guards in the armoured car were killed, he didn't want to kill them and was felling remorse at having to do it.

As Neil is a sociopath, I don't believe he cares about the guards at all. He cares about the fact that now in case of being caught by the police, all of the crew would be penalized for murder, not "only" for armed robbery. Plus their chance of being caught is now higher because now the police are looking for murderers who may kill again in their next robbery. So the police would probably use more resources to get them.

[–] roland-rockerfella 8 years ago

That's not the way I viewed it. I got the feeling that if Neil could take down a score without ever hurting anyone he would happily do that. Even in the bank robbery he stated that we wish to hurt no one and I truly felt that about his whole crew. Wanegro on the other hand was a psycho and enjoyed killing, that's why he didn't fit into Neil's crew.

[–] roland-rockerfella 8 years ago

[–] franzkabuki 8 years ago

"If Neil could take down a score without ever hurting anyone he would happily do that".

Yeah but if he couldn't, that'd be okay too as long as it meant getting his goods and making a clean getaway. Does anyone really think that if some random guy was standing between him and successful score, he'd call it a day and go home because he doesn't want to shoot that random guy?

"facts are stupid things" Ronald Reagan

[–] daveyh (641) 4 years ago

I'd also add that his not wanting to hurt anyone wasn't because of any kind of morals on his part, it was about bringing less, dare I say, heat, on him and his crew. Shooting civilians and especially cops would, as mentioned in an earlier comment, mean the police spending more time and resources going after them.

[–] AnotherMartiniPaul 8 years ago

Aren't Neil and his crew as immoral as can possibly be?

Absolutely not. Just look at their reaction to Waingro's killing of the guards. Neil almost knocked him out right after, in the van, and at the restaurant, chose to kill him for having done that. He was also sympathetic to Eady's loneliness, and felt bad after he unintentionally insulted her. He sets up his scores with the intention of hurting no one.

[–] fc31 (6137) a year ago

Exactly, Neil was not really immoral. I have seen far worse people in real life than Neil, even they never did anything illegal. There is saying that "Some men rob you with a six-gun – others rob you with a fountain pen."

Neil was a criminal, not because he wanted to do bad things or hurt people, he did not want that, but because that was the only thing he knew how to do well.

[–] Darren (1461) 7 months ago

Anyone who sticks a gun in someone's face and steals what his victim is holding is absolutely immoral. Armed robbery is completely immoral. So is murder, and Neil committed several of those. When Waingro snuffs the first guard just because he's a thrill-killing psycho, Neil puts the other two down without hesitation. No moral man would do such a thing -- or be there robbing people at gunpoint to start with. Later, when the bank robbery goes south, Neil and his crew don't hesitate to spray full auto fire all over a crowded downtown business area, killing and wounding several people. Again, not the action of a moral man.

Neil is furious at Waingro, not because his sense of morality, but his sense of practicality: Waingro's act was reckless, completely unprofessional, and will bring massively increased focus from police on Neil and his crew. And if the cops get them, now, instead of a few years for armed robbery, they get life for murder, maybe even the death penalty. McCauley wanted to kill Waingro not because he was remorseful about the death of the guards, but because he's outraged and offended that Waingro's stupidity and viciousness put him and the rest of his men at greatly increased risk.

And I disagree with your last statement: Neil was a criminal because he wanted to do bad things. He even straight up admits it to Vince in the diner scene. He tells him that he doesn't know how to do anything else but take down scores, and then he tells him he also doesn't want to do anything else.

[–] nick-cooper-1 8 years ago

Although not part of the crew proper, I always feel sympathy for Breedan. He's out of prison, trying to go straight, but the diner boss is breaking his arse and skimming his pay. Although it's not a great decision, you can see why he accepts Neil's offer of the driving job at the moment he does.