the spirit,daredevil,the punisher, why do filmmakers seem so intent on making these movies with heros that have no powers.
they usually always do poorly at the box office yet time and time again serious filmakers pick them to make movies about when there is such wealth of other super heros with powers they could actually use.
Daredevil had a superpower,he had a super radar sense he gained from a street accident as a kid involving a truck carrying radioactive materials.The Shadow had the ability to cloud men's mind to both influence their thoughts,as well as make him invisible.But just for the record,I love The Rocketeer & feel that was one of the finest superhero movies ever made in spite of its poor box office.Cliff Secord did not have any super abilities,he had a rocket engine that allowed him to fly.
shareThe whole "power to cloud men's minds" was a creation for the long running radio show (primarily sponsored by Blue Coal). It was too time consuming for the half-hour radio show to repeatedly describe how The Shadow stealthily moved when needed in his pursuit of justice.
Similarly, on the original Star Trek series, the transporters were a creation to save money on special effects. Originally, only shuttlecraft were going to be used when the crew landed on a planet. But creating new effects shots with each episode's particular planet proved too expensive especially when the show's budget was already streched to its limits.
As originally created by Walter Gibson for Street & Smith, The Shadow has no super powers.
So, in the pulps, he was just a guy w/a big nose, who shot criminals?
I always thought the 'power to cloud men's minds' was there, initially, because it was print, and the silver-plated revolvers came in, during the early movie serials (starring the proboscis-appropriate Victor Jory), because they had no special effects, to show his more esoteric abilities.
I think the Shadow film did a great job of combining the disparate elements.
I've always taken the Shadow to have no powers, and the 'power to cloud men's minds' to be high level mass hypnosis. A great example of this was matinee idol Baldwin, appearing to turn into the hook-nosed Shadow.
I liked the Shadow & Shiwan trying to out-hypnotize each other.
I also didn't take the animated dagger face as real, but part of the hypnosis. Ergo, it didn't seem particularly cheesy, to me.
Carpe Noctem!
the shadow has powers, you clown.
shareWow -- you bumped a thread just to insult me. And yet that still doesn't change the fact that the Shadow was created without superpowers. C'mon Tofi -- do some research, perhaps even track down one of the recent pulp novel reprints and read for yourself
http://www.shadowsanctum.com/index.html: Official site for Anthony Tollin's authorized reprints for The Shadow, Doc Savage, The Avenger and The Whisperer. You can find a list of currently available reprints -- most bookstores should be able to get them in (your library might even have a copy or three); Borders may even have some copies in-store.
Officially, the people behind the 1994 movie brought in the "power to cloud men's minds" because they wanted a hybrid presentation of pulp stories, later radio show, and (some) comics -- though in the end the movie is mostly an adaptation of the radio show. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some thinking that "heroes have to have superpowers" during the movie's development as well.
I actually prefer the Shadow without superpowers.
Courage, men! We've not sunk before, and we'll not sink now!
Daredevil and in this version the Shadow did have paranormal powers, albeit understated ones.
Why do some people prefer this?
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=1193
Max Allan Collins notes that he prefers properties "in the Zorro/Shadow tradition; superheroes -- super-powered heroes -- aren't really my cup of tea.................But generally a super-powered hero is the kind of character only a kid can identify with -- a kid wishing to be an adult, essentially. In storytelling terms, if the hero has greater powers than his adversaries, what's so heroic about him? Underdogs are easier to identify with.
Basically, people such as Collins consider it juvenile not to have a protagonist who has to strive to achieve his feats.
Daredevil and in this version the Shadow did have paranormal powers, albeit understated ones.
Why do some people prefer this?
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=1193
Max Allan Collins notes that he prefers properties "in the Zorro/Shadow tradition; superheroes -- super-powered heroes -- aren't really my cup of tea.................But generally a super-powered hero is the kind of character only a kid can identify with -- a kid wishing to be an adult, essentially. In storytelling terms, if the hero has greater powers than his adversaries, what's so heroic about him? Underdogs are easier to identify with.
Basically, people such as Collins consider it juvenile not to have a protagonist who has to strive to achieve his feats. The writers have a hard time identifying with or writing about such a protagonist. People who have to strive for their accomplishments seem more resonant than someone who receives it through luck.
Personally I've always found it equally admirable when a character has powers and chooses to use them for good. Also, most origin stories involve a sacrifice or personal crisis. Superman is powerful because of Earth's sun, but was only sent here after his world was destroyed. Spiderman lost Uncle Ben. Captain America volunteered for a dangerous procedure in hopes of protecting his country.
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"Speak softly and carry a sakabatou."
People also find it childish for the idea of someone thinking that they would not have to lift weights, run laps, study martial arts, etc. People also find it undisciplined that one should have a protagonist who can resort to means that an actual person could not use.
shareI think there's a difference in semantics here. There are two types of superheroes: The kind like Batman and The Shadow who rely on skill, training and effort, and those like Superman and Spiderman who received their powers by happenstance. Both are good.
Heroes like Superman communicate that the strong should protect the weak. Characters like Superman don't earn their powers, but they try to live in a manner worthy of their gifts. There are many people in the real world who receive their power as an accident of birth. "With great power comes great responsibility" and by extension, society expects people with great power to treat it responsibly.
Heroes like The Shadow show the power of intellect and learning to change the world for the better. With hard work and dedication, great things can happen. There's also a recurring theme of self-sacrifice. It's the attitude that motivates police, firefighters, doctors and the like.
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"Speak softly and carry a sakabatou."
As Max Allan Collins pointed out in Amazing Heroes#119, if they do not have paranormal powers, we should call them "mystery men" or costumed heroes or masked heroes depending on the circumstances.
Calling a protagonist without paranormal powers something that sounds as if one thinks they derive from Superman just indicates that someone has never heard of Zorro. (Not to sound too frigid, mind you, but Zorro has had a steady presence in media over the last few decades, so for someone to claim ignorance of Zorro strikes me as probably more specious than ignoring the Gray Seal [Jimmie Dale] or the Scarlet Pimpernel.)
"I think there's a difference in semantics here. There are two types of superheroes: The kind like Batman and The Shadow who rely on skill, training and effort, and those like Superman and Spiderman who received their powers by happenstance. Both are good.
Heroes like Superman communicate that the strong should protect the weak. Characters like Superman don't earn their powers, but they try to live in a manner worthy of their gifts. There are many people in the real world who receive their power as an accident of birth. "With great power comes great responsibility" and by extension, society expects people with great power to treat it responsibly.
Heroes like The Shadow show the power of intellect and learning to change the world for the better. With hard work and dedication, great things can happen. There's also a recurring theme of self-sacrifice. It's the attitude that motivates police, firefighters, doctors and the like".
Actually, I grew up watching reruns of the 1957 Zorro series. I think he's a hero but not a superhero. However, the Shadow is the true proto-superhero. I personally define a superhero is a character who uses unusual abilities to save people.
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"Speak softly and carry a sakabatou."
The Shadow proceeded every one of those heroes, and IMO is frankly much more interesting.
Treachery is the way of the Sith...
Batman has no superpowers, just a bad-a$$ costume & 'all those wonderful toys!'.
You might want to check on the box office totals for Batman '89, Batman Begins, & The Dark Knight, btw.
Yeah Batman & Robin was a cinematic 'crime against humanity' but it was just one in a series of Batman films.
You can even count Iron Man in the list of non-superpowered hero films that made oodles of money at the box office.
Hell, 'superpowers' doesn't exactly guarantee a 'hit' at the box office (i.e Fantastic Four, Elektra, Daredevil), nor even a good TV film (Generation X anyone??).
agreed magic8ball2112
"But it happened at sea! See? C for Catwoman!!"
Uh. Batman has no superpowers and is one of the most successful frachises in history.
sharebatman has been around for a long time but thats because i think there is a magic thing about that character that hes managed to have 2 mostly successful movie series, a successful cartoon series, a successful live action TV show from the 1960's, and so on. i think its the combination of characters, very memorable villians, the cool "toys", the sidekicks, the humour, the look, everything. hes a character that can be done in a number of different ways, not like most superheroes who are stuck in the same mold forever. you can be light and silly or dark and dangerous with batman, all depends on what the mood of the time is.
that said, Batman & Robin might have been considered terrible batman movie but it by no means was a box office failure. it certianly turned a profit, and when you count in the merchandising which was massive, it certianly made alot of money for a film so critically drubbed. for me personally, though batman should be dark, i really have no problem with a lighter campier batman because theres only so much dark one can have with batman before it becomes too much. it is based off a comic book after all. you gotta have SOME fun with the matieral, or else it just becomes one long overly serious, overly complicated pretenious bore, like the recent chris nolan films, which despite being critically successful, are nothing like a comic book movie to me. i prefer the older better funner CB movies like the Shadow.
Realism, Remakes and Unnecessary Sequels are ruining movies!
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But The Shadow and Daredevil both have superpowers.
share