I saw this movie once about a year ago and couldn't figure out if Gareth and Matthew were together, I thought it was implied a couple times. I guess I wasn't watching to carefully. Anyway I thought the movie was great. If anyone could help me out it would be great.
'But you said we'd be forgiven'
'And indeed you may...but that's between you and god'
Yes, they were a couple....
.....old thread here:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0109831/board/nest/17051862
I loved Gareth in this and many years later in PHANTOM OF THE OPERA.
sharewoooo phantom of the opera dude!!! LOVE HIM xxxx
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The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and be loved in return.
yay phantom dude
I didnt realise they were together til the end...hmm..
With 1000 sweet kisses, oh lover, I'll cover you
RIP Steve
i didnt realise until the end either!! how unobservant ... lol xxxx
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The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and be loved in return.
It's funny more wasn't made of there togetherness, but in "polite Brititish Society" it would have perhaps have been frowned upon.
Charles and his friends to seem more enlightened though, and accepting of there relationship. The film was made in 1994 and was still 2 years from Eastenders 2 second guy on guy kiss.
Seems strange now what a fuss is amde, but often on TV gay relationships show far less intimace than Staright couples, or curiously lesbian ones
I think their relationship was very subtle in the film, it only really came to light at Gareths' funeral (that's when I cried).
When you are aware of their relationship, watching the film a second time lets you look for indicators of them being a couple...and they are there.
I think that it is interesting that in a 1994 film their relationship was so much more subtle. It took me awhile to figure out that they were a couple. Of course, this was pre Ellen and everything. Today it would be quite obvious.
shareHi eac1027:
There were actually a number of hints that, taken collectively, would indicate their relationship/orientation:
One early scene shows Gareth making a fat-rich English breakfast, Matthew approaches and gently wipes some shaving cream from Gareth's cheek;
A young girl spies David, Charles' brother at the wedding; Girl: He's something of a dish, isn't he? Matthew: I've always thought so.;
The funeral, of course;
And after the funeral, Charles says to Tom: Yes, it's odd isn't it - all these years we've been single and proud of it, we never noticed that two of us were to all intents and purposes married all the time.
Just some thoughts ...
Actually just watched this movie for the first time today (when ever its on TV I never realise till its nearly over) I thought the film was good and wanted to no what other people thought, never actually realised they were together till I read these messages!!! I had an idea, it was so vague!!! the signs were there obviously once i watched it again, felt like a right prat for missin it!!!
shareI watched it for the first time today (because I'm lame like that) and I pretty much guessed it their very first scene where Matthew wiped the stuff off of Gareth's face. It was a sweet and intimate moment. It made me go "Awwee!"
Grab a shovel, I'm only one skull short of a Mouseketeer reunion. -Bender, Futurama
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I also thought it was perfectly clear from the start. I'm surprised some people didn't pick up on it, as it's quite clearly indicated by the script and performances throughout the film, as above posters have mentioned. Maybe some people don't look for such things or mentally filter them out, because they're used to assuming everyone's heterosexual...
shareYeah, you're right! I found it very clear. It doesn't matter whether a couple is heterosexual or homosexual; no matter there's no point in telling it out with big letters.
You allready see in their first scene that they live together, and they have a very intimate thing over breakfast.
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Hugs...
Considering I myself am bi-sexual, your little dig at me there made me laugh. Looking back, i think i was to focussed on hugh grant to be truthful
shareI think you realise the second time you watch it, at least that's when i realised it.
I guess you do make presumptions that the characters are going to be hetrosexual perhaps because theres more material of that sort (obviously) but I don't think it's a homophobic thing.
xx
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The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and be loved in return.
the first time I watched this movie( one of my fav) I realised Matthews and Gareth were a couple at the first wedding and it was obvious at the funeral when Matthews read the poem.
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I knew they were a couple at the breakfast scene too. I kinda thought everyone would have noticed that.....but I'm obviously wrong. I thought the bit where they are at a wedding and Gareth and Charles are talking about people getting married cuz they've ran out of things to talk about, then the really sweet bit is where Matthew says that people also do cuz they're in love then him and Gareth look at each other and smile. That was a lovely moment that you could have missed if ya blinked! lol
I thought David and that girl were so cute when they were dancing together! And how he laughed at her when she was doing the whole sign language thing wrong. They were v v cute!
"The Poet is a liar who always speaks the truth."
They were just socializing - he loved being with people and having a good time. I think the intent of the scene was to show how alive and vital one can be one moment and gone the next.
shareTheir relationship was not obvious at first, but definitely obvious the second time you watch the film.
And I'm glad we weren't "hit over the head" with the fact they were a gay couple...they were simply a couple. The fact they were gay was irrelevant, which is a very effective way of showing a gay couple in a film. It makes the relationship that much more real and believable.
We are given the hint that they are a couple in the shaving-cream scene, but like many gay couples at that date, they are not overt in their relationship. It is clear that Charles hadn't realised that they were a couple until the funeral.
Gareth is the oldest member of the group. His age would make him more inclined to be private about his relationship, because in his youth homosexual acts between consenting males would still have been illegal in Britain. He would be in the habit of dancing with women because dancing with a man would have been unthinkable. It would have brought him under suspicion of being a practising homosexual.
Homosexual acts between consenting males over the age of 21 were legalised in 1967, and the age reduced to 18 in the 1990s. It is now 16, the same as for consenting heterosexual sex.
"great minds think differently"
I agree some of the older generation could be more private about their relationships, but I believe you are wrong when claiming Charles was not aware of their relationship. Their friends knew about the relationship, but it was never an issue for them, because it was totally accepted.
The reason Gareth dances with women is because he likes to enjoy himself. He likes to have fun. And he enjoys dancing. He was not afraid of being suspected as a homosexual, he wouldn't have cared what people thought of him. He was too carefree.
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They blew up Congress!!! HAHAHA!
perorwen,
watch the film again. Charles makes it clear that he didn't know (or even suspect) that Gareth was part of a "couple". He states that he thought that everyone in their group of friends was single, and that it came as a surprise to find that Gareth and Matthew were in fact "married".
As for Gareth being carefree, when homosexual practise was illegal in Britain, no practising homosexual male could afford to be carefree. This is not about caring what your friends think. It's about self-preservation. Most older gay men simply maintained a sort of facade, and even after it became legal, old habits die hard.
"great minds think differently"
I agree with perorwen. Charles and the others knew about their relationship. I think what he meant by his comment was that, they acted like a married couple, meaning they didn't date anyone else and they did everything married people did together as if they were married...and when one partner dies, it's like a spouse dying. It wasn't all about sex.
I too knew that these two men were a couple after I saw the breakfast scene. I mean, who wipes their heterosexual roommates shaving cream off their face and then licks their figures and hits their roomies nose with it? No one I know.
Mandy, I am aware of that comment. And I agree with Suburbancitygirl. Charles' comment was as she explains. They weren't legally married, but lived like they were.
Notice when Gareth has the heartattack, the first thing Charles does is look up Matthew.
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They blew up Congress!!! HAHAHA!
1. Gareth, in 1994, would have lived at least 20 years of his ADULT life as a covert gay, before he could legally "come out".
Looking at this movie from 2008, it is easy to presume that "everyone knew". But it is we, the viewers, who are privy to the shaving cream scene, not Charles and co.
On Gareth's death, Charles would indeed look up Gareth's flatmate and presumed close friend, regardless of whether he knew that they were a couple. This doesn't indicate that he was fully cogniscent of their relationship.
2. When Charles uses the word "married", he uses it in parenthesis. It is the difference between "single" and "married". Not the difference between "partners" and "married". He presumed that they were "single", i.e. not in any sort of marriage, de facto or otherwise. In other words, he did not realise that Gareth and Matthew were "an item". Their married state is a revelation to him. Their apparent "flat-mate" relationship suddenly falls into place.
3. Charles statement about the discovery that two of their group of singles are, in fact, "married" is a pivotal point in the story.
This point is relevant to the ending of the story and his relationship with Cassie. Gareth and Matthew were a "non-married/married" couple. They were, by Charles's own definition, "married". But that marriage had no legality, and it also had no formal recognition or celebration until the funeral. The story of the movie presents us with four marriage ceremonies, each farcical in its own way. The ceremony that truly celebrates partnership and a binding love is Gareth's funeral. So when Charles seeks to establish a long-term relationship with the woman that he loves, it is a relationship along the lines of Gareth and Matthew's "marriage/non-marriage".
4. Suburbancitygirls suggestion appears to be that Charles (and friends) thought that G&M were two gay men who shared a home, shared a bed and shared sex, but shared no committment, and that Charles suddenly realised that they actually did share a committment. What this is saying is that their relationship was overt to their friends, but not recognised as a "real" relationship by the very friends who all knew it was a relationswhip.
I think that this point of view greatly downvalues a homosexual relationship as presented in this movie. I don't think this is the point at all. The whole point is, they appeared to their friends to be merely single flatmates. The true nature of their "friendship, and depth of their committment was like an explosion of reality upon Charles. There was this depth of love right under his nose, and he, in his self-absorbed way, had never noticed it.
5. Nowadays, young people are very much more aware of who among their friends is/isn't homosexual. In the early 90s people were less aware. In the 80's they were even less aware. I think that you are viewing this aspect of the movie from a 2008 perspective.
"great minds think differently"
I don't feel that my point of view downvalues homosexual relationships at all or that the funeral was the pivotal point to the ending of the story. I was NOT talking about commitment as one can be commited without being married. Charles was afraid of "marriage" as his best man speech had implied and what he viewed "marriage" to be (way before the funeral). He never saw Gareth and Matthew as a "married" couple before simply because gays just didn't "marry". The discussion for me is not "married" vs "single" but rather "married" vs a gay "couple" and what these words "gay couple" meant to Charles.
You make alot of assumptions, even on when I veiwed this movie. I saw this movie for the first time in 1994 when it first came out and came to the same conclusions. I disagree with you that homosexuality was less accepted then, especially amongst close friends as they were suppose to be. I can't imagine being this close to people and not having any inklings about their personal preferences, whether legal or not is irrelevant. They all seem to know alot of personal things about one another, example - Charles was not late because of traffic, and right before Gareth died, he said he loved this girl (Carrie) and looks at Charles in the way that one might think he knew how Charles felt about her. And to the point where he had to tell Matthew because they were flat mates, well yes, but it's the way Charles approached him that was telling.
I think you're reading too much into their relationship and its role in the movie and overemphasizing the fact that there were four weddings and a funeral. I don't think these events were important in and of themselves but rather the timeline for Carrie and Charles relationship to take shape.
Oh by the way, Andie Macdowell's character was Carrie, not Cassie.
My comment was not about the "acceptance" of homosexuality, but about awareness of it.
Charles did not see them as a "gay couple". He saw them as "single". He states that he saw everyone in the group as "single". I don't think that Charles, or anyone of his intelligence, would perceive "a couple", gay or otherwise, as "single" simply because they were not formally married. The word "partners" has been used for gay couples (and other unmarried) couples for many years. If he had perceived them to be "partners" he would not have stated that he believed them to be "single". The term "an item" was often used at the time. Charles did not perceive them as "an item". When he uses the word "married" to describe them, then it is in acknowledgement of the fact that they were "partners".
I don't think that I am overemphasisng the fact that there were four weddings and a funeral. They were not merely a timeline. The movie was far more consciously structured than that.
The funeral was of crucial importance. It is a very grounding event. It shows several aspects of real life that are quite removed from the world of Charles and his immediate circle. Charles and his friends may have known in theory that Gareth (who is quite a lot older than the rest of them) was from a working class background, but the reality of attending a funeral in a little chapel on the edge of a coal mining town would have been an eye-opener. (The other churches shown in the movie are among the most fashionable places to marry.) In this unlikely context, the friends hear recited one of the most elevated and poignant poetic expressions of love turned to grief. This is what mutual love and committment (marriage) are really about.
While I realise that you can undoubtedly find evidence to support your opinion, I think that in your misinterpretation you are overlooking important events in the storyline, and completely underestimating the effects of those events on Charles, the central character. Charles statement is an "event". It is not just a hypothetical question in Charles's mind about Gareth and Matthew and whether or not a gay committment equals a marriage. This is a shallow way of perceiving it, in terms of the story. The precise defintion of homosexual partnership is is insignificant, in terms of this story.*
The story is Charles's story, and the statement is about his personal realities. His sudden awareness that he has been blind to the passionate and committed love of two of his closest friends and his acknowledgement of the true nature of such a committment is a very big step forward for Charles.
Charles changes from a man who will not commit himself, to a man who sees the need and value of committment. He still doesn't have the picture quite clear, and stupidly commits himself to the person who is demanding a committment from him, rather than the one who is committed to him, or the one to whom he feels most able to be committed. Fortunately his brother is not as blind to these realities as Charles is.
*Just to qualify this statements, so as not to be misunderstood: In a movie in which Gareth and Matthew were the central characters, the question of whether their committment equalled a "marriage" might be of central importance. But this story is about Charles's development, not Gareth and Matthew's.
"great minds think differently"
OK Mandyjam. I rewatched this movie in hopes of finding clues that the others knew they were a couple.
These are the reasons why I thought they knew:
1) when Matthew talked to Charles about seeing Garreth dance on the dancefloor the first time. I felt that flatmates wouldn't be observing each other in such a personal way.
2) When Charles asked Matthew at the second wedding why he was always the one not getting married. I felt that one cannot feel sorry for oneself in front of somebody who was in the same position. I mean, can't he say the same about Matthew then since he saw him as a single person? Matthew;s never the one getting married either.
3) When Fiona was confessing her love to Charles and Matthew walked in, Fiona asked Matthew where Garreth was. Why doesn't anyone ask Charles where Scarlett was when they see him then? They were flatmates too. I thought this question is usually asked to people about significant others. It can be a substitute for asking "Hey, where's your better half?"
Then I got to the part about the funeral... And darn. I think you're right. Charles did say he hadn't noticed before. Hmmmm. This movie is probably more deep than I saw it as you stated also above but you know what? I had fun watching it. It's a romantic comedy to me and nothing more. I'll just take it as such. :)
Thanks for your reply. I wonder if Fiona knew? She may have, because she's a lot less self-focussed than Charles.
I love it as a romantic comedy as well. Even if I don't think much of Carrie's morals!
I would have loved Fi to get him in the end.... but no,
"great minds think differently"
I think the film makes it clear that Matthew and Gareth are in a relationship but is lowkey about it, as they themselves were. They are not demonstrative and I was struck by the fact that at the funeral the minister introduces Matthew as Gareth's "closest friend". I think this indicates that they were not 'out', although whether it's Gareth's parents or his community that is ignorant of his true nature is not at all clear. Of course, Matthew's choice of poem and his halting delivery of it does rather blow the lid off things so I'm inclined to agree with Mandyjam that it was Gareth who wanted to keep the relationship under wraps.
As far as Charles goes, I doubt he thought of them as mere flatmates but he may well have failed to realise they were truly in love. We don't know how long Matthew and Gareth had been together, but another thing that struck me during Matthew's speech at the funeral was the camera picking out 4-5 attractive young men in the congregation. If they are former lovers of Gareth's then he may not have been with Matthew for more than a year or two. Charles, perhaps, is used to seeing Gareth with a goodlooking young man in tow and would have assumed Matthew was the latest. In addition Charles is rather insensitive and doesn't observe people or wonder what they're thinking - witness his complete obliviousness over many years to Fiona's feelings for him. I suspect it takes something as big as a wedding to make him realise 2 people are in love and since gay couples don't marry, he never looked beneath the surface of Matthew and Gareth's relationship. It's no coincidence that the post-funeral scene is between Charles and Tom, the 2 bumblers of the group. I very much doubt that Fiona, Scarlett and David were ignorant of the truth.
I like Mandyjam's theory that Charles picks Henrietta because she's the only one demanding a commitment from him; it's the first plausible reason for proposing to her rather than Fiona (or even some random woman) I've seen. He may have felt she would keep him up to the mark.
The people who made "Four Weddings and a Funeral" did so from the perspective of the particular modern urban society that they live in and depict. Thus, they have no problem with Carrie's morals, and they seem quite amused at the obsession that some people have with her sexual behavior.
I suggest that Charles may see Matthew and Gareth as singles because they are both having sex with other men. I know that it won't fit in with the worldview of many people that Matthew and Gareth could be so much in love and still have sex with other men, but that is the way the world is. For some people, sex is just sex.
This thread has astounded me! I saw the film at the cinema a few times when it came out and it never crossed my mind that Gareth and Matthew weren't gay. The affectionate touch on the nose at the beginning more than sets the scene for it.
And of course Charles knew - when he is talking about them being "married" he is referring to the fact that he didn't realise how committed they were not that he didn't know he they were gay. And if you come across the deleted scenes discussing how the group all knew each other its made plainly obvious then!
And of course Charles knew - when he is talking about them being "married" he is referring to the fact that he didn't realise how committed they were not that he didn't know he they were gay. And if you come across the deleted scenes discussing how the group all knew each other its made plainly obvious then!
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Heavens, I thought it was obvious from the first scene where we saw them that they were a couple.
shareMe too :o no question!
I'll give him 20 more minutes-and that's it!- Airplane!
I realize they are couple only in the end after seeing pictures of Matthew with new mate. Then all the previous facts are so obvious :)
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It's obvious from the opening credits (But I think we often don't pay much attention to the opening credits). It shows all the characters waking and going about their morning activities. We see Gareth's and Matthew's suit jackets hanging on the bedroom door together, then we see Matthew very tenderly wiping the breakfast from Gareth's face, even licking his fingers and grooming Gareth's beard. The two are clearly committed partners.
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