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What other show or entertainment does P+P's tone remind you of?

posted 14 years ago by DickyBettsBass
46 replies | jump to latest

I've been wondering, but it's hard to put my finger on it. Can someone think of a show, movie, comic strip, book etc. that inspired the particular tone of the P&P series, or that has a similar type of humor?

A while ago I was reading the Calvin and Hobbes comic strip, and its way of presenting fairly standard children's adventures with a strange mixture of adult-like philosophical reflections, surrealism, flights of fancy, irony, sarcasm and warm nostalgia strongly reminded me of the unique style of P&P's scripts and visualizations.

Of course mentioning Calvin and Hobbes brings to mind Peanuts as well....

Anyone?

Dicky

[–] no_springs 14 years ago

It's a music video, but the atmosphere is similar. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x355v4_the-arcade-fire-rebellion-lies _music

and no redemption, by the way..

[–] DickyBettsBass 14 years ago

Well, I hadn't thought of anything like that! I see a similarity in setting (suburban, autumnal) and the message (if I'm getting it right) that you should live your dreams, however weird or wonderful they may be, and not just reject them as some byproduct of sleep. There's something about it from 'The Nightcrawlers' episode.

Mostly, I think the imagination and inspiration of the video draws on the old Pied Piper of Hamelin myth.

Dicky

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] blbbg1 14 years ago

Freaks and Geeks, The Wonder Years, Boy Meets World, etc.

[–] joshwinkler87 14 years ago

The show has been compared to shows like Freaks and Geeks, Twin Peaks, The Wonder Years, and Boy Meets World. Another one that is similar to it is the show Eerie, Indiana.

[–] DickyBettsBass 13 years ago

Yes, thanks, I appreciate all of that. I call it 'The Wonder Years On Weed' or 'David Lynch Lite' to myself a lot of times, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's nice to see 'Eerie, Indiana' mentioned too - another favourite of mine.

To be more precise, I was wondering if there was any direct inspiration, any precursor. Only 'The Wonder Years' predated it (if you take the P&P shorts from 1989 onwards into account), so 'Twin Peaks', 'Eerie, Indiana' were more or less contemporary. Others like 'Freaks and Geeks' came later.

I was thinking in terms of the usual Hollywood pitch. How did creators Viscardi & McRobb develop the idea and sell it? Imagine something like "Think of it as The Wonder Years mixed with The Twilight Zone" for instance. I came up with "Calvin and Hobbes" because that one did predate the series. Though it's a different medium, I recognize a lot of the tone and the humor in retrospect.

Dicky

[–] wjs111 13 years ago

It's hard to put your finger on because it feels original and nostalgic at the same time. But I think it's sort of in the vein of a christmas story. Which in turn spawned movies like the sandlot and shows like the wonder years. Of course those were literally nostalgic as the narrators were looking back as adults. Big Pete usually was looking back presumably just after the event.
It also had more of an alternative/indie quality to it compared to those shows. It was offbeat. So with some caveats I guess I think of it broadly in the nostalgia comedy genre told from the kid(s) perspective.

One thing to consider is that there was probably more room for experimentation in the pitch because the show started as those minute long shorts that didn't require a massive pitch. Then those caught on and so the loose structure was pre-sold by the time it was to be made into a long form show. (since I believe they said on the dvd commentaries that nick asked them to make it into a full length show.)

I should also mention the book 'super fudge' about the precocious kid who wants to be a bird when he grows up and his frustrated older brother peter and their family moving to new jersey. Of course it has a totally different tone and plotline.

more indirectly, it shared something in common with other 90's entertainment. Not just the music and style, but that intangible 90's feel. I remember watching 'doug' and reading the book 'orp and the chop suey burgers' and feeling some similarity. Maybe more stuff was told from the perspective of kids or maybe just how kids were portrayed at the time was unique. They all seemed to feature and play up those mundane day to day dynamics and interactions of ordinary syblings or friends. But also goof on their heroic aspirations and imaginations. Like Pete's super hero Artie or Doug becoming Quail man. It's like we were all in on the surreal fantasies as only being fantasies but came to like the boring and normal characters because they were more relatable.

[–] DickyBettsBass 13 years ago

Thanks a lot for your detailed and perceptive comments! You mention a lot of related sources that I am unfamiliar with, as I live in Europe (where Pete & Pete wasn't even shown!!), but I'll certainly try and check them out. Regardless, I see what you mean and that's what counts!

Dicky

[–] laustcawz-789-925423 13 years ago

It's occurred to me that if film director John Waters
("Pink Flamingos", "Polyester", "Serial Mom")
were to do a "family-friendly" kids' show,
the result would be very "...Pete & Pete"-ish.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] HaulinBoats 13 years ago

In a way, the book series Sideways Stories At Wayside School by Louis Sachar.

[–] DickyBettsBass 13 years ago

Thanks for the links! I have a rather obvious choice, come to think of it. P&P director Katherine Dieckmann's first-ever professional movie was the music video for "Stand" by R.E.M..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKKqLl_ZEEY

It has lots of touches reminiscent of P&P: improvisational feeling, some disarming dorkiness, real-life quality and sentiment (child-grandmother relationship), seemingly random associations with old family pictures, faded slides, maps, mechanical toys and diagrams.

Dicky

[–] lordnimbo 12 years ago

I think everyone has left out the most obvious connection (or similarity).

Not only are the story lines written in a manner that is similar to his films, but the show has 2 of the actors that have been in at least 2 of his movies (at least in the ones released in the 1990's, the same time as P&P).

Watch "Simple Men" by Hal Hartley, and listen to the dialogue closely.

AND, see if you recognize "Stu" and the similarity that 'his' character in the film has to the one in the show (always girl problems).

I've always considered P&P to be something of a Hal Hartley show for kids...

[–] DickyBettsBass 12 years ago

Great observation! I did write somewhere in a fan review "The series' 'cool' credentials brought in many oddball guest appearances by alternative rock artists (...) and actors associated with the movies of the Brothers Coen, Hal Hartley and Jim Jarmusch." Yet I must admit I think I've only seen his films 'Trust' and 'Amateur' at the time - it's kind of blurry now, and then I wasn't at all aware of "Pete & Pete", which wasn't shown over here. Anyway, it's a good thing to check out some of his early Nineties' films out again sometime.

Dicky

[–] lordnimbo 12 years ago

I just found a web-article published 3 months ago, that makes it definitive...

(NOTE: "Simple Men" is now out of print, and getting expensive for used copies of the DVD, which I had actually purchased for $10 each several years ago as gifts for those friends who like Hartley's films)

http://www.avclub.com/articles/exploring-the-adventures-of-pete-and-petes-genesis,82042/

Its a series of interviews with Will McRobb and Chris Viscardi about the show '20 years later', with these statements from them near the bottom of the first section (where they are discussing having Steve Buscemi on the show):

CV: I think, to me—this is nothing against Steve, I mean, Steve’s great—but I was so much more excited to have Martin Donovan on the show [as a crossing guard]. Because we were such Hal Hartley fans at the time, and Martin was in one of our favorite Hal Hartley movies, and we were working with a couple of crew members of the Hal Hartley world—we got a lot more of them much later on when we went to series—but we got Martin for a day, and he would love to smoke onscreen, which still makes me laugh.

WM: That’s true. Everybody talks about the music of the show; we basically could put on any song that we liked that we could afford, and at the time, everything that we liked that wasn’t huge, we could afford, so there were no restrictions on that. And it was the same with casting. We loved Martin Donovan in [the 1990 movie] Trust. That’s one of our favorite deadpan—and yet wildly broad—comedies, and we basically said, “Let’s have him play…” It was the same thing with Damian Young. If you think about his performance in Simple Men, that’s basically the starting point for [bus driver] Stu [Benedict]. How often can you take a character you love from a movie, just slightly revise it, and then plug him into kids’ show? [Laughs.] That was really fun.

[–] DickyBettsBass 12 years ago

Lordnimbo: great find and well reasoned

Dicky

[–] lordnimbo 12 years ago

"Trust" is now released on BluRay. Hopefully, the rest of Hal Hartley's early films (including "Simple Men" which has "Stu" in it) will also be released in HD...

[–] lordnimbo 11 years ago

If anyone's wondering just how closely related "Stu" in P&P is, to the 'sheriff' character in Hal Hartley's "Simple Men", look at 'this' photo...

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screenshot.php?movieid=65291&position=13

[–] lordnimbo 10 years ago

Ooops, I mean 'this' one...

http://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/8218_13.jpg

[–] ericco79 12 years ago

I always joked the Malcom In the Middle took place in the same "World" and neighborhood as Pete and Pete. It had just enough of the bizarreness but still almost realistic enough.

[–] DickyBettsBass 12 years ago

Fully agree with you on MITM. It's one of my favourites. Coming about ten years later than P&P, it's understandably flashier, louder and more hectic than this show, but I always consider MITM one of P&P's offspring.

Director Peter Lauer, who directed 5 P&P episodes and was highly praised by creators Viscardi and McRobb for his imaginative work on the show, went on to direct 12 MITM episodes, Chris Koch directed P&P's great 'Rangeboy' and 'Field of Pete' along with MITM's fine 'The Bots and the Bees', and Adam Bernstein, another P&P director, started off directing music videos for They Might Be Giants, who were essential to the tone MITM, as they signed for the Season 1 soundtrack.

[–] ericco79 12 years ago

Hey Dicky,

I never knew that! Thanks for that great trivia about two of my favorite shows. That explains a lot about some of the Malcom in the Middle episodes I remember as being my favorites. :)

[–] dustybabi 12 years ago

My thanks as well. The instant I viewed my first episode of MITM, I sensed something similar to P&P.

[–] Rehmss 12 years ago

I just had a nostalgia flashback and went on old Nickelodeon youtube videos and came across Pete and Pete, which lead me here to find your post. Watching the video, I commented that Pete and Pete is the original Malcolm in the Middle.

[–] DickyBettsBass 12 years ago

Thanks. Yes, this is exactly how I feel about it! I regularly return to those old Nick clips too on YouTube.

This Malcolm fansite happens to devote a whole section to shows that inspired the sitcom, among them Pete & Pete:

http://www.malcolminthemiddle.co.uk/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=1143

Dicky

[–] Uvtha 12 years ago

Motorama, for sure.

[–] DickyBettsBass 12 years ago

I'd never heard of Motorama, but I've looked it up and it sounds interesting. Is it any good? Most reviews say it's kind of wannabe cool and surreal, but not really well made.

Dicky

[–] Uvtha 12 years ago

I thought it was made well enough, it was just trying to do something weird. Though, it's clearly not a movie for everyone. I went in just thinking it would be an oddball 90's road movie, but it was much more interesting and fun. The cover and the tagline are extremely misleading.

The same guy wrote "Vampires Kiss" if you have seen that, and it is equally bizarre, in a great way.

I think if you like pete and pete you would probably like this movie to some degree.

[–] DickyBettsBass 12 years ago

Fine, thanks! I'll see if I can check it out somewhere!

Dicky