MovieChat Forums > Dogfight (1991) Discussion > how was this romantic?

how was this romantic?


Firstly : he seemed to be nice to her just so that he could sleep with her
secondly: he threw away her address and never contacted her
3rd: he was happy to be an *beep* (as evidenced by the conversation he has with his friend)
the only thing that puzzles me is why he did not tell his friends about it and whay he hugged her in the coffee shop.
Any ideas as to possible things that happened between them after. I think they stayed friends.
Rose was like a sister to Birdlace

if it were up to me I'd chose to speak like Humphrey Bogart, but....it isn't

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I'm going to re-watch this shortly so as to give you a thoughtful answer. I know a great deal about the 60's culture and counter-culture as I am an historian and I was born in the 60's. Keep an eye on this space as I hope to answer you later on this evening or tomorrow - it's already 12:06 am here in Scotland. I still seem to be on Denver time.


--
The Force is my Ally and a powerful Ally it is.
Luminous Beings are we - not this crude matter.

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nice response

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Here's my answer to your question about this being a 'romantic' film.

I'll take these in order:

First, I don't disagree with your statements per se, but I don't believe Birdlace was 'nice to her just so he could sleep with her.'
Birdlace discovered, whilst spending time with Rose, that she was a genuine, warm, sensitive and caring person. I think that the decision to sleep together was a mutual one founded on what they both discovered about one another during their evening out.

Second, he threw her address away because of the conversation he was having with his best buddy about 'bullsh*t'. I get the impression that he did it because he thought that any contact with her from where he was going would seem to be cheapened by her strong convictions of 'NO Bullsh*t'. I hope that clarifies that particular statement of yours. When I first watched this film, I, too, was taken aback by his tearing up and throwing away her address. At that time, I chalked it up to him being 'back with his friends' and that he valued their friendship more than he valued Rose's. That may also be true in the context of your question.

Third, your inquiry was sort of answered in the above, but also, moving forward by 3 - 4 years...the entire world, not just the United States, had moved on and there had been a serious loss of innocence. Birdlace was sitting in Vietnam in 1966 and out of nowhere all three of his friends were immediately 'blown to pieces'. When he returned to San Francisco (where the Alameda Naval Station is located - my father was stationed there in the late 60's), the entire crowd, mood and belief system had radically altered. While Birdlace was in the bar, the men were initially rather jovial but became very somber when they realized where he just come from and for what purpose he had been there (Vietnam). You may be unaware that President Kennedy had plans to diminish the United States presence in S.E. Asia, and by doing so to decrease the military industrial complex that was beginning to rear its head (Eisenhower warned the world about this on his last presidential address). Also, the Vietnam War was very unpopular. The owner offered gave him a free drink and when he thanked the man, the man said, 'No, thank you.' This demonstrates the belief that the older generations held in the USA at that time of willingness to stand up to what they believed was a threat to the democratic way of life; these men may have served in Korea as some of the talk centered around military stations in the Pacific. (As an historian and lecturer at university, I could go into lengthy detail about this, but for the sake of brevity, take my word for how the older generation felt more or less.)

Birdlace found himself confronted with men and women his own age who dismissed him as a 'baby killer'. (The Viet Cong were just as responsible, historically speaking.) He asked about Rose first to the men at at the bar; subsequently summoning the courage to go see her. I believe that unlike your suggestion that Rose was like a sister to him, he knew that she would love him - regardless of what he had been doing or where he had been for the past few years. She forgave him for the 'Dogfight' and, his discovering her amazing character and seeing the beauty within her, he needed her to accept him as he was because very few other people were willing to accept him and the other Vietnam Veterans.

As a footnote to your answer in my lengthy epistle, I think it extraordinary and very, very telling that some of these themes are slipping right over the heads of young people today. Freedom has not ever and will not ever, be free. However, the Vietnam War, along with its predecessor, the Korean War (see M.A.S.H.), and all the subsequent 'wars' are hog-wash. The Constitution of the United States states quite emphatically that Congress must DECLARE WAR in order for the United States to be 'at war.' The United States and other N.A.T.O. allied forces are being used as the 'policing system' for the very one-world government oversight of the United Nations.

I do not care if people disagree with me. I've done my homework, written a thesis, taught history, and am very much aware of what is going on in the world today. Americans are being systematically used in a vain effort to secure the Middle-Eastern oil fields. The only entity that profits from the 'war on terror' (which is a joke - how can one have a war on something intangible?) are the banks. Look to them for the major conflicts of the past 70 years and ask yourself who always comes out on top.

I do hope that I have answered you inquiries about the film. Rose and Birdlace found each other against a backdrop of changing times in the early 1960's and reunited a few years later with the same love and acceptance that they had shown one another on that previous meeting. It is a poignant reminder that people are more than their 'looks' as inside a person - their character and heart - are vastly more important at the end of the day.

Jedi Master Cheryl
--
The Force is my Ally and a powerful Ally it is.
Luminous Beings are we - not this crude matter.

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Beautifully said, JediMasterCheryl.

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What a great analysis :)

I do think that Eddie would have used Rose. He would have taken advantage of her kindness and gentleness to fulfill his needs and left her hanging time and time again, like he did before.

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[deleted]

I didn't see it as romantic either. They weren't in love. They only briefly knew each other. It was more poignant. He was gung-ho to go off to war and realized the hard way it wasn't as glamorous as he thought it would be. He knew her views and remembered her kindness. He went back to the last place he had felt good before the war. She was a safe place and familiar face.

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[deleted]

I do agree that people don't need to be in love to be romantic. I just believe this film was more about Eddie's overall realization and growth rather than his relationship with Rose. I think their time together was cute and she was good for him.
She went on with her life and was proactive. Maybe they would have developed something and stayed together but I believe they would have just remained good friends.

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I don't think it's a romance at all, I think it's about friendship and forgiveness. After it seems his buddies probably died in Vietnam, well at least the one he was most close too. He seemed like a lonely guy, who probably at the end was changed by his experience in war and matured. Needed a friend like Rose in his life. I always considered this more a film on friendship then romance. Great film though. Lili Taylor is fantastic in this.

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