HELP! ~ I dont like Coen movies.... should i watch this?? - Barton Fink (1991) Discussion

[–] jimanchower 15 years ago

Why in the hell would you ask someone if you "should" watch a movie?

It's a damn movie, you're not making some huge choice dude. If you want to watch it watch it. If you don't, don't.

Seriously, is the couple of bucks to rent it and the 2 hours to watch it just too much of an investment for you?

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[–] cbartal 15 years ago

Don't bother watching it. Barton Fink is the best film ever made, but if you are already pre disposed to dislike the Coens, then this film will only cement your beliefs.

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[–] jimanchower 15 years ago

It's not the best film ever made, it's not even the best Coen bros movie, but it's great. I just watched it again last night, it's just a great movie.

But here on IMDB there are reviews, the movie is rated, you can read through posts and see what the general feeling about BF is...........

Yet despite all this the OP still feels the need to just straight up ask total strangers whether he should watch it or not? I don't get it.

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[–] cbartal 15 years ago

Well jim, we will have to agree to disagree on BF.

I think Fink and Fight Club are the two best films ever made.

But I'd go a bit easier on the OP. People reach out on these boards for opinions from time to time. Granted, you are going to get a slanted opinion on this board about the relative merit of the film in question. So any advice would need to be taken with a pound of salt.

But still, what's wrong with the OP asking for advice from this board? The OP asked a pointed question, and he couched his question with his own personal tastes. I'm happy to give him an honest asnwer.

The BF board goes dormant for long stretches of time. I'm elated when a newcomer comes onto this board and asks a question.

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[–] mmserrano4 8 years ago

You are simply wrong about Fight Club. It's a pretty good movie, maybe a 7 or 8/10, but it is a far cry from best ever made. It doesn't merit ANY thinking except for whether or not a scene could be a plot hole or not. The "themes" are butchered from the book, the violence is toned down, and the honesty and emotion found in the book are gone.

Those seven years of MacGyver finally payed off

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[–] KrizzRock 12 years ago

It is by far the best Coen brothers film..... Fink, Millers Crossing, Big Lebowski....

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[–] Tyutchev 14 years ago

It was a pretty straightforward request, and you weren't even able to handle that. So, to paraphrase you:

Why the hell would you post a reply 'without' answering the question ?

It's a simple question, you're not making some huge statement dude. If you want to answer it, answer it. If you don't, stay off the damn keyboard.

Seriously, is the couple of points of IQ and the 5 minutes to type a decent reply too much of an investment for you ?

To the OP..

If you're having to decide whether to watch it or not, don't bother.
As a general rule, Cohen Bros. movies are too inconsistent in quality to waste time watching them, and this one is no exception. They make their movies like M. Night Shyamalan does - good concept on paper, crappy telling of the story. It's like listening to someone telling a two hour joke, only to find there isn't a punchline.
Like yourself, I find most of their movies are drivel, but this one was better - though note that 'better' doesn't actually equate to 'good'

If you're entertainment time is that limited that you don't want to waste time on something iffy, stay away from Cohen Bros in general, and stick to more credible directors like Nolan, Mann and Scorcese.

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[–] cbartal 14 years ago

I like the fist half of your post inky. I've posted the same thing above.

But the Coens are in no way iffy. They have a cinematic legacy that surpasses probably every other movie making entity since the medium began.

As far as the "more credible" directors you mentioned:

Nolan: Memento was wonderful, but Dark Knight was typical summer blockbuster fare. Inception - a small, interesting, singular idea, magnified into some pseudo intellectual epic-wanna-be that digests down into mostly inane summer action sequences that have no impact when they are perceived in a realistic suspension of disbelief. When we know that they are dreams, they become even more boring and ho-hum.

Mann. Heat? Nothing more than a star gazing primetime TV rehash. What else? Miami Vice? Not even worth a mention. Does Mann have other films? I think he must. All worthless, I would imagine, I think I saw something forgettable from him in the past year or so. Refresh my memory.

And Scorsese. Yes, he made great movies up until about 10 years ago. But with the Departed he lowered himself into the realm of an average filmmaker.

The Coens, along with David Fincher, and PT Anderson, are the reigning genius' in American Filmmaking. The Coens had a misstep with No Country, an awful film. But with Burn and A Serious Man, they have returned to form. I have a good feeling about True Grit, too. Saw the trailer at a Social Network showing. Looks promising.

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[–] franzkabuki 14 years ago

With the exception of Intolerable Cruelty and The Ladykillers, Coens are VERY consistent across the board, no matter what genre or topic they see fit to indulge.

Scorsese has never made a truly awful film, but raked up too much mediocrity by now to call him consistent.

Mann, with the exception of The Keep & Public Enemies has never fallen below a certain (high) standard. Miami Vice is hugely underrated and the film where he´s in the most sure handed command of his signature style up to date. And what´s wrong with Heat being a "rehash" of his own TV movie L.A. Takedown? It´s a LOT better, more stylish rendering of the "original"; big budget gave the story an epic scope it badly needed.

Nolan´s consistent, too, but on a level way below either Coens or Mann.

And Shyamalan has never made anything that looks good on paper or in any other form. Lady In The Water and The Happening being some most awful, ludicrous crap I´ve ever had the misfortune of witnessing.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[–] cbartal 14 years ago

Mann was Public Enemy? Well I slightly retract my generalization.

Nice to talk to you again franz. But do you really think that Mann is a noteworthy filmmaker? Even PE seemed to be standard action oriented made for TV fare. I can't say that I share any enthusiasm for him as a filmmaker. But I trust you, and your thoughts. I will give his films another chance.

But hey, in any case, thanks for not dropping me like a wet fish, and flaming me.

That's about it. BTW - Social Network is the first film in a while that I've actually been inspired by. But I love Fincher. I mean FC, come on. Zodiac was impressive also. Anyway.

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[–] franzkabuki 14 years ago

I said that last years Public Enemies is one of his 2 failures. Not a proper film to judge him by.

The thing is, had you asked me about Michael Mann some 1,5 years ago, I would have agreed he´s a rather insignificant, overrated figure - for a very long time, I´d only seen The Insider which I thought/still think was very good, but not some timeless classic; Heat which I thought/still think is his most overrated & heavily flawed work (only now I´ve come to appreciate the positive aspects more); and Manhunter which I thought was quite a stinker.

But then I gave Manhunter a second chance and suddenly it clicked - which, in turn, led to seeking out Miami Vice and that one simply blew me away; the rest, as they say, is history. Anyways, Mann is one of the very few directors working almost exclusively on the crime/action turf who is capable of transcending the genre and, pardon the pretentious parlance, turning it into art. I like his sensuous style, great eye for composition and imagery and his mainly visual mode of storytelling (Miami Vice is a particularly laconic piece of work where cinematography and music/soundtrack are made to carry the story for longest of periods, sometimes stretching from one segment to another, with minimal interference by dialogue).

No one else I can think of can make the sight of a plane piercing the clouds or a "go-fast-boat" speeding down the sea so awesome to look at. Sure, his dialogue is often basic and even cliched, but his skills as an audio-visual stylist far outweigh whatever weak spots he might have. His is a macho world (no wonder the one big flaw Heat has concerns Pacino´s domestic matters), but it´s often also amazingly beautiful. Mann is definitely worth a second chance.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[–] eroc475 14 years ago

You gotta watch Collateral, probably my favorite michael mann film. Heat was also awesome. public enemies wsa okay. haven't seen miami vice.

Scorcese is also awesome, i personally enjoyed shutter island though it was far from perfect, and the departed is one of my all-time favorite movies (as soon as i saw it in theaters i knew it would win best picture). He has definitely put out some mediocre movies though too (the aviator, ugh).

As for Nolan, memento rules, and the prestige is damn good too.

But yeah coen brothers are awesome. Haven't seen every movie but I'm working through them now and have yet to be disappointed.

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[–] raidersteveo-652-287904 11 years ago

I agree with your assessment of all of these directors, however I did enjoy Shyamalan's The Sixth Sense and Signs but that is about it. I agree with others who cite PT Anderson, David Fincher and others are great consistent directors and I would add to the list Wes Anderson, Clint Eastwood, Ridley Scott, Sam Mendes, Darren Aronofsky, & Quentin Tarantino.

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[–] I_Created_U 12 years ago

Wow! O_o! With all due respect i disagree with almost everything u stated!

Memento: you are right the movie's amazing, a real gem.
Dark Knight: true, a bit overrated but still a good action flick, there's not a
lot like this one.
Inception: Soooo overrated! and true, when u know it's just about dreams i was
like who cares?? I never understood why everybody was so excited about
this one
Heat: One of the best movie ever, its in my top 10. Soooo intense energetic and
fierce. De niro vs. Pacino, how can you not like it?? Special mention to
De niro in this one. The stifling atmosphere Mann managed to create in this
movie is outstanding. A true gem IMO.
Mann: You forgot "Collateral ", maybe not a master piece, but worth watching and
a undoubtedly good movie
Miami Vice: Mann tried to recreate the success of "Heat", regrettably he
brilliantly failed. The movie was a big disappointment for me.
Scorsese: Amazing director, almost every movie's master piece. "Departed" is also
one of the best movie ever made, also in my top 10. A true gem.
You said he made great movies up to 10 years ago, but what about "Gangs of New York"? Also an outstanding breathtaking movie <even though i
prefer Departed>

Cohen: You say "No country for old men" is a misstep?? Hello? This movie is pure magic! Loved it! On the other hand Burn after reading was a bitter pill. Not worth a dime IMO.

Yeah so that's what i think!

Peace

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs"

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[–] SillyPuddy 12 years ago

Disagree about Scorsese who has made lots of average films. The Departed was far from the best movie ever made and a remake at that.
I also thought No Country was awful and Burn After Reading awesome.

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[–] franzkabuki 12 years ago

What´s it matter if it´s a remake or not? Plus it deviates from Infernal Affair in significant ways.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[–] Tyutchev 12 years ago

Apologies for the delay in my reply, and I appreciate the courteous way you defended your appreciation for their films.

Having seen several films by the Cohens, I find little to redeem their films as entertainment.
Each time I've watched one, I've wondered why I wasted my time, and then someone will say 'Oh that one wasn't their best, you have to watch x movie', so I do, and I'm left with the same impression - it was a complete waste of time.

No Country for Old Men was the final (unintentionally) hilarious straw for the miserable camel built on Raising Arizona, LadyKillers, The Hudsucker Proxy, Burn After Reading and Intolerable Cruelty.

If I were to be cruel, I would say that 'iffy' would be a generous statement as it would suggest their movies actually improve, but I'm happy to just agree to disagree in this case. Just don't make me watch another of their movies..

If after 25 years of seeing their movies and still finding them not any better than the last, I'm obviously not their target market and I'm happy that you find their movies entertaining. Vive la difference !

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] SaberRider85 14 years ago

If you dont like Coen brothers movies theres no helping you...
Nah, just kidding xD
You should tell us what you´ve seen so far. Or was it just Fargo and Big Lebowski?
If thats the case I would recommend Raising Arizona before you watch Barton Fink.
And after Raising Arizona maybe Blood Simple or The Ladykillers cause I think these are Coen movies that are not so "tough" if you know what I mean.
You know, most Coen movies take a while and need to be rewatched to fully "get" them.

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[–] hyena-6 14 years ago

I typically dislike movies by the Coen Brothers too. I really dislike some of their films and could care less about most.

That said, I actually liked Barton Fink. But you have to go into with a fresh mind. Think of the cast and how they believed in the story enough to do it. I don't think it was the greatest movie ever made, but it is definitely worth watching.

http://www.sighedeffects.com/serious.jpg

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[–] elmsyrup 14 years ago

If it's any help I HATE HATE HATE most Coen Bros movies, but I thought this was at least OK, even fairly good. Different to what they usually make. Oh, and to the person a couple of posts above- The Ladykillers is awful! Widely regarded as an absolute joke, and definitely their worst film. Why on earth would you recommend that?

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] stanleyhetz 13 years ago

Honestly i'm not a fan of Coens.. except for The Big Lebowski which is epic in every way possible! i dint like fargo n i thot a serious man was just about ok.

I've heard a lot abt this movie (from friends, references in the simpsons)... so i need ur honest opinions... whether i would like this movie or not?

and please no bashing! im entitled to my opinions, my likes n dislikes right?

Watch it so that John Goodman can show you the life of the mind!

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Prismark10 12 years ago

I liked a lot of the early Coen Bros films. Did not like this one!

Its that man again!!

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[–] cbartal 12 years ago

Wow, SillyPuddy... I think you are spot on.

The Departed was, for lack of a better word, hokey. That climactic big shoot out scene where there are 100's of cops, but Damon and Nicholson somehow end up together to have a heart to heart and move the plot along so efficiently... oh, how trite, how unScorsese-ish. It was like a bad tv movie, or even worse...

And No Country.... I could go on and on about what a unrealistic mess this was... and I have on the NCFOM boards for years.

Burn is a wonderful film, like you said. It's slightly absurdist or farcical, but it is so much more realistic than NC or The Departed in every way.

Oh, and before I pass out... Barton Fink is my all time favorite film... tied with Fight Club.

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