MovieChat Forums > Lonesome Dove (1989) Discussion > Women - Do you love it like we love it?

Women - Do you love it like we love it?


Just curious...

I think we'd all agree that certain types of movies tend to appeal to specific genders, and being a Western, Lonesome Dove might seem more of a guy movie. In my opinion, it's one of the greatest films ever made on so many levels - acting, music, depth of character, effectiveness of storytelling... yet I'm always torn when it comes to showing this film to women, unless they express some specific interest in it.

So, tell me ladies... Is a Western like Lonesome Dove up your alley? Why or why not?

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Aargh! I just wrote a long reply only to lose it! Let's try it again....

Yes, this movie is absolutely up my alley. It is in my top 3 favorite movies of all time (and might be number one - period). I watched it when it first aired and loved it. A few years later, my girlfriends and I got together for my birthday and had a Lonesome Dove marathon. That was one of my best birthday memories ever. My one friend named her cats Gus and Call. We used to quote the movie all the time. I still do, but nowadays I'm surrounded by people who haven't seen the movie so they have no idea what I'm talking about.

I have watched this movie many, many times. I taped it from TV. Then I purchased it on VHS. Then I purchased it on DVD. I own the book and the prequels and sequel. In fact, I'm rereading the books this summer. I'm reading LD right now. I listen to the soundtrack quite often. Whenever I see it while channel-surfing, I have to stop and watch it regardless of where the movie is at that point. I never get tired of it. I laugh at the witty lines, I cry at the poignant scenes, I get excited when the movie swells during the scene where they are driving the horses from Mexico to Texas, every time I watch it.

While I've always loved the Western culture, I've never been a huge fan of the stereotypical Westerns (both movies and books). A movie has to have more than the cliched "cowboys and <insert your bad guys>" storyline to make it interesting to me. Lonesome Dove has that. It has friendship (dare I say, bromance?), action, wickedly clever humor, memorable dialogue, interesting and endearing characters, stellar acting, gorgeous cinematography, soul-stirring music, an interesting blend of storylines, and haunting and surprising death scenes. How often do you see a Western where a hero dies?

I can't speak for all women, but for me what draws me to it is the story of friendship - not just between Gus and Call, but between Gus and Lorena, Gus and Clara, Call and Deets, Deets and Newt - and the joys and heartaches that accommpany these friendships. It is rooted in reality in that it shows how hard life was in this time period in this setting. People died. There wasn't always a "happily ever after." No trite happy endings here.

I wouldn't wait for a woman to express an interest in watching it. Just suggest watching the first part and I guarantee that the woman will want to watch the rest (so be sure to start watching early!). I have yet to meet a woman who could resist the charms of Gus McCrae (although I'm partial to Call as well). I'd be surprised if someone - woman or man - can watch Part 1 and not be drawn into the story almost immediately.

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Katherine-

Hey if you like westerns that are deep and not stereotypical you should check out my favorite writer EVER, Elmer Kelton. After reading your message I am sure you would love him. Western Writers of America voted him the greatest western writer of all time.

I promise you will thank me.

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I'm a girl and I adore this mini series. I have every one of the Lonesome Dove Mini series. I love the story and all of its characters.

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Back in '89, when this was first broadcast, I worked evenings, and so used the VCR to record this. My wife watched the broadcast while I worked. I knew the story, having read the book several years earlier, so she would talk to me about the evening's episode when I got home. On the night of the final episode I got home about 1:30 am, and she was waiting for me.



SPOILER ALERT!!!!


The death of Gus had so moved her that she was STILL red-eyed with tears two and a half hours after she watched Gus die. She loved the mini-series, watched it with me several times over the next year, and still watches it with me now and then when I break out my DVD set. Oh yeah, she loved Lonesome Dove, more than most films she's seen.

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae

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[deleted]

I LOVE this movie. I agree with you that it's one of the best films ever made.


"If a movie makes me cry, I know it's a good movie." Martin Scorsese

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I love the film so much I'm watching it for probably the sixth time. Lonesome Dove is as close to a perfect film as anyone will ever get. I haven't met too many women who loves westerns as I do (Ride the High Country, Shane, and The Wild Bunch). My copy of the book Lonesome Dove literally fell apart from rereading. I only wish when I met Larry McMurtry (I was a kid) I could have said something intelligent to him. Years later I have a happy memory of ranchwork and Larry McMurtry was there. (I also adore The Last Picture Show, Buffalo Girls, and am on a mission to read all his books and see all the movies made from his books). I saw Robert Duvall on Jimmy Fallon a few weeks ago and he said his "favorite" film, and I think he said he doesn't really have a favorite, he liked making a bunch of them, would be Lonesome Dove.

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I do love a good Western, as well as a good war film, musical...whatever.

Lonesome Dove is my favorite film, even though it was made for television.



"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?" H. M. Warner, Warner Brothers, 1927

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I personally think the movie had a rather anti-woman flair to it. All the women in this were portrayed as selfish (Elmira), aloof (Elmira, Lorena), hard (Clara), or controlling (Peach)

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I think the men portrayed in the film were also at times selfish, aloof, definitly hard and controlling...and so what?

There is no anti-woman "flair" to this movie.

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You could make a better case that the film is decidedly anti-male. All the men are either evil (Blue Duck and his gang, the Suggs bros.), stupid (Pea Eye, Roscoe, July), promiscuous (Gus, Jake), or tyrannical and overbearing (Woodrow). Even the supporting male characters are totally ineffectual (Newt, the Hat Creek cowboys, various deputies and bartenders). McMurtry must really hate men, eh? The only exception is Deets, who is among my absolute favorite characters. On the other hand, maybe ALL the characters- both male and female- are simply flawed, ordinary, average people who are caught up in events over which they have little or no control, and are doing the best that they can, under the circumstances. That's how I see it. The West was a hard, unforgiving land in those days, and a simple mistake or miscalculation could be fatal. If you put yourself in the place of the characters, and honestly ask yourself what you might have done in the situations they faced, under the same conditions, you might gain some insight into how things were in that time and place. Do you have the guts to try it?

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae

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The women are selfish?

Elmira-aloof? She was in love with Dee Boot and single minded in getting back to him. She didn't care about anyone but him, not even herself or her children. She didn't love July and never would have married him if she'd had any other option. That wasn't fair to him; he really did care about her; but it wasn't fair to her either.

Lorena-aloof? Did you not see her with Gus? What about when she stood by the coffin all night? She never loved Jake; he just promised (lied) that he would get her out of Lonesome Dove and to San Fransisco. She didn't want to have to fight off the attention of the men on the trail so she stayed away from them but she adored Gus.

Clara-hard? Clara was strong; she had to be. As much as she loved Gus she knew he would never be the kind of husband she needed. After Bob was injured she took over running the ranch, taking care of her girls and Bob. She also took in Martin and cared for him even though she knew he may be taken away from her.

Peach-controlling - She was a bully.

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I can never resist watching this movie when it's on, even though I have the DVD.
Clara and Gus are my favorite characters. Gus, the romantic, philosphical free spirit, and Clara, the grounded earth mother; two people forever in love, but not destined to ever be together. I don't see Clara as hard, but as a strong woman as many pioneer women had to be. She has a heart as big as all outdoors. She becomes a refuge for the friendless: July, and baby Martin, Lorie, and she would have been more than happy to take Newt in as well. She mothers Lorie and finally that love and care lead Lorie to her path in life. The depiction of Clara is a tribute to the strong pioneer women who helped people this nation (although it was already peopled with the aboriginal people).

I liked Call,too, but felt sorry for him that he was at a loss to deal with his feelings and acknowledge his son. Newt tries so hard to be like him, and so wants to be acknowledged.I also feel sorry for him when Clara beats him verbally before he departs to carry out his promise to Gus. He is a man, and there were many in that time, who keeps his feelings to himself and is helpless to express them, even to defend himself.

I liked Deets, too. Danny Glover did a great job portraying him.

And, I wish Lorie could have brought herself to love Dish. I think he would have been devoted and have taken care of her for the rest of his life. The way he stood guard from Clara's porch over Lorie as she watched over Gus' coffin, rushing to pick her up when she fell from sheer exhaustion was so sweet. And he was so cute. It seemed strange that after everything was said and done,...Mc Murtry in the sequel novel marries Lorie off to Pea Eye, especially considering that the actor who portrayed Pea Eye in the series seemed even older than Gus, and Pea Eye had none of Gus's wit; in fact, Pea was portrayed in the movie as not being very bright, and was happy to be a bachelor. He just doesn't seem like Lorie's type..

Lonesome Dove is the most realistic Western I have ever seen, and depicts just how hard life was for everybody back then.



"..sure you won't change your mind? Why, is there something wrong with the one I have?"

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You have touched on one of my biiggest issues with this Larry McMurty series and that is Lorna and Pea Eye. That relationship just is not true to who the characters are and makes no sense. It is as if the author got offended by fans wishing Lorna would end up with this person or that person and decided to "show" everyone by writing something outlandish and unpredictable. But it just doesn't seem believable.

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@sansabatexas and the men weren't?

http://www.cgonzales.net & http://www.drxcreatures.com

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You're right that typically action films aren't my favorite--though by the same token, I usually don't like romantic comedies either, so I'm not a stereotyped female movie-goer. But I
just love LD on so many levels. For one, I think the casting, of the leads in particular, are flawless. Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones couldn't have been better cast. Another strength is the script following McMurty's story as faithfully as it did because this is really such a fine piece of literature. What a coup the project developers decided to make it a mini-series instead of a feature. That gave them the considerable leeway to take the time needed to use so much of LM's novel, to develop the characters w/ more nuance and dimensions, to include as many of the characters and as much as the splotlines and splendid dialog as they did. That was a courageous decision for both the developers and LM. He might have held out for the big screen and turned his nose up at a mini-series. LD is among my top favorite books of all time, and I adore the series. I can't imagine any male being a more devout fan than I as a woman am.

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So, tell me ladies... Is a Western like Lonesome Dove up your alley? Why or why not?


I'm a big fan of this movie but not until recently. It's been a long journey towards westerns that started with Firefly. (space-western!) I'm fairly picky tho, about which westerns I'm willing to watch because I have so much trouble getting into them but Lonesome Dove was easy to enjoy. As a previous poster stated, it was Gus and Call's friendship that made it so enjoyable. I liked it so much that I even read the book, however I refuse to read the sequel...it just wouldnt be the same.
I hear there is a book that takes place before Lonesome Dove, and I plan on reading it soon!


"Because keeping me on-topic is like trying to herd cats..."

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I hear there is a book that takes place before Lonesome Dove, and I plan on reading it soon!
I think you are referring to "Dead Man's Walk." I read it, as well as other Larry McMurtry books featuring the "Lonesome Dove" characters. And I feel compelled to caution you that none engaged or moved me like "Lonesome Dove." Not even close.

There is a theory that McMurtry was unhappy with how the mini-series based on "Lonesome Dove" was received and wrote the prequels/sequels to disparage the characters. I don't know what happened. But I sensed when reading the later books that whatever magic he found and put into the characters and story of "Lonesome Dove" is nowhere to be found in the later books.

So I am of two minds. I am loathe to discourage anyone from reading a book he or she thinks may be of interest. But I was so greatly disappointed when reading the later books that I feel a need to warn would-be readers.

So consider yourself warned!

For what it's worth.




Somedays it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.

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Thanks, and good to know! I would be more upset at the book if I wasn't forewarned.

McMurtry was unhappy with the mini-series? I know it was a bit before my time but wasn't it popular? Did he not like how people enjoyed it?

I have that "two mind" problem often...You dont want to ruin books for people by influencing them with your opinions but at the same time, you want to warn them so they arent completly upset and swear off the whole series.


"Because keeping me on-topic is like trying to herd cats..."

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McMurtry was unhappy with the mini-series? I know it was a bit before my time but wasn't it popular? Did he not like how people enjoyed it?
I am only parroting what I have heard on this subject. And anyone who has better insight or knowledge is welcome to jump in.

Anyway, as I understand it, McMurtry wanted to "de-mythologize" and/or "de-romanticize" the Old West with "Lonesome Dove." The book, which won a Pulitzer Prize, and the mini-series, which was very highly rated, instead created their own romantic universe. It is that reaction which I understand to have upset McMurtry and caused his hostile approach to the later books.

As I write this, it is unavoidable how bizarre an idea it represents. Which doesn't mean it isn't true. But how could any author be upset that he has created one of the most beloved cast of characters ever to appear in print and on screen? I suspect most authors would give most of their toes to have done so.

Anyway, that is my understanding. All I can say for it is that it does correspond with what I perceive as McMurtry's mistreatment and lessening of the characters in the later books.


Somedays it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.

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Wow. I guess I can see it both ways tho. I mean, on one hand something you've created has become incredibly popular and touched the hearts of many but on the other hand, it was changed from what you origionally intended it to be. Maybe he didnt feel like it was truly his creation anymore and wanted to ruin it? Hollywood does have the tendency to change alot when turning a book into a movie.

"Because keeping me on-topic is like trying to herd cats..."

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Anyway, as I understand it, McMurtry wanted to "de-mythologize" and/or "de-romanticize" the Old West with "Lonesome Dove." The book, which won a Pulitzer Prize, and the mini-series, which was very highly rated, instead created their own romantic universe. It is that reaction which I understand to have upset McMurtry and caused his hostile approach to the later books.

I definitely got that impression while reading the other books as well. It almost seems like he hates both Call and Gus and wanted to make them look as bad as possible. At no point in the prequel novels did I get the sense Gus or Call were "legendary Texas Rangers"....I kept waiting for them to get to a point where they were great lawmen....but it always seemed like they were bumbling around and barely able to stay alive while the Indian characters were the ones that were strong, smart, and exceptional. I understand that for the first one...but they never become great. They only stay alive because of luck mostly. The way Call ends up in the books is almost proof alone that McMurtry hates the character. It's like he wanted to punish Call for being loved.

I don't really even consider the other books canon because they are so bizarre.

~Sig~
Proud member of the Facebook Let Me In group, DoYouLikeMe.proboards

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He might have held out for the big screen and turned his nose up at a mini-series.
McMurtry originally wrote this story as a feature film in the early 70s for John Wayne and James Stewart. When it never got made (because Wayne turned it down) McMurtry was able to get the rights back and expand it into the novel. I don't think he would have wanted to trim it back down to a feature. However- we're talking about the 80s, before these blockbuster films started splitting the books into feature installments. I guess if it were made nowadays it would be feasible to make two feature films instead of a mini-series, but I really hope they never remake this. It's pretty much a perfect adaptation.



"Falling feels like flying... until you hit the ground."-Tom McRae

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I've read several of the comments on here and most have already given the same reasons this is one of my favorite movies of all time, not just one of my favorite westerns.

The characters make you care for them as if they are real people, even Call. I know he tries hard to stay hard and act like he doesn't care about anyone but he does.

This movie hits all of your emotions. You will smile, laugh and cry as well as feel anger and disgust in particular scenes.

I especially like they way you can't really decide if you would want Gus to end up with Clara or Lorie. He loves them both but is honest with both of them about how he feels. The relationship between Lorie and Clara could have been handled differently but not any better.

If you haven't seen True Women, you should check it out. It stars Dana Delaney, Anabeth Gish and Angelina Jolie. If you loved Lonseome Dove I bet you will love True Women too.

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One of my favorite movies, if not my favorite western, & my favorite book.

I love everything about it, could watch it over & over. In fact, my hubby rolls his eyes AT ME, when I see it on tv and turn it on. I have to go in the other room to watch the DVD. It just never gets old to me, such a great story & a cast to match. I wouldn't change a single person, EXCEPT maybe blue duck - or maybe blue ducks nose.lmbo What was up with that prosthesis anyway?lol Seriously though ive seen FM in lots of other stuff and I don't recall his nose looking like that.

There will never be another western novel or movie quite like this one. But if they want to try to top it, then I'll be obliged to read & watch to see if they can. I'd be tickled if they could come close to being the same great quality, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.



The sweetest joy, the wildest woe is love. ~ PJB

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I am a female and love the book and the mini-series. To me it is a bunch of guys who just deal with life as it comes. It isn't full of hyperbole, sex, or idiocy. Someone has a dream and they take off to fulfill it. Two scenes were taken out of history and given a spin. Deets was one which was true. A rancher is Texas used to give his Black cowhand the bank deposit because "who would suspect a Black cowhand dressed like he was with a bunch of money." The other incident was when Call drove MacCrae home to Texas to be buried in Clara's orchard. A Black cowboy again drove his boss home to Texas to be buried there. These facts are from "The Life and Times of the Negro Cowboy in the West (sic)." To me it was a man's book but I loved it and I grew up in Northern CA among cowboys and farmers.I also have the sequel and prequels both books and DVDs but nothing approaches this book and miniseries.

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Actually Larry McMurtry based the part where Call took Gus back to Texas to bury him on a historical tidbit. Oliver Loving died in the same way Gus did & Charles Goodnight promised to take him back to Texas.

It's a known fact that Gus & Call are mostly based on these two historical figures. You should read about them, it's funny how the lines parallel. I'm sure it's no coincidence with the story you was speaking of, because men were better back then & had honor - no matter their color.



The sweetest joy, the wildest woe is love. ~ PJB

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Loving and Goodnight were the pioneers of the cattle driving in Texas and they are legend in Texas. Men back in those days were judged also by how they did their jobs and not by skin color. Wish it could be that way today along with the ethics and honor they had.

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Most certainly it is! It's my favorite western. Gus is the main reason I like Lonesome Dove. I know that there are limited parts for women in westerns - they're either whores or wives and Lonesome Dove isn't much different in that area; however, Gus respects women no matter what they do and I tend to like his philosophy and sense of humour.

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

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I've loved LD now for over 22 years (since I went out and rented it after seeing the first repeat episode in about '91}. As a woman, born in the west, the genre is familiar and loved. As many did, I watched it straight through and was a puddle at the end. Tommy Lee Jones had long been a favorite of mine but was not well known to many others at this time. The ladies on this thread have mentioned everyone else and their ladies - I'd just like to say that I would so have liked to be a fly on the wall when Woodrow and Maggie made Newt.

"Adapt and Overcome"..VMortensen

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I've loved this ever since I was 12 and watched it with my family in 1989. And I usually abhor Westerns. This one has a special place in my heart. :)

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