MovieChat Forums > Scrooged (1988) Discussion > I loath this movie...

I loath this movie...

posted 11 years ago by laplante-co-672-297856
24 replies | jump to latest

I'm in the minority... and I don't care. I'm a sap for mushy Christmas / rom-coms but this movie just doesn't work for me.

1. The Claire / Frank relationship

He's already a selfish douche when he first meets Claire. I cannot picture any universe where this sweet, cute girl would find this guy endearing or appealing. Nor do I believe she would take him on as a 'project'.

2. Bill Murray is noticeably uncomfortable around Karen Allen

Perhaps related to 1. above, but my impression is that Murray himself just isn't into this aspect of the role. There is zero warmth or chemistry between them.

Want proof? Watch that cringe-worthy final kiss or two that Murray delivers during the final scene. His lips are practically sewn shut and stretched out like a chimpanzee, like he doesn't want to get anymore intimate than he has to for the scene.

3. Frank Cross' final 'conversion' speech is totally unconvincing.

Bill Murray is best at cynical, self-absorbed schtick. Most of that final speech is delivered in that same 'Bill Murray' style. I don't know if it's the writing, or simply that Bill Murray is not a good dramatic actor when a little humility and drama is called for (brief appearance of a tear in his left eye notwithstanding).

Lines like "do this or you'll burn in hell, I guarantee it" suggest his conversion has less to do with genuine humanity and more to do with saving-his-ass. This is reinforced by his wipe-of-the-forehead-whew-dodged-a-bullet thing when he's looking up at the ghosts in the studio rafters.

This entire speech is also undone by his 'breaking the wall' thing and reverting back to 'Bill Murray' mode. It's amusing, but doesn't fit well at this point in the movie where we're supposed to be feeling a warm glow.
(Also, watch the out-of-focus crowd behind them. Most of them aren't singing, some look bored...)

My wife makes me watch this dreck every year and I hate it. Thanks for letting me vent... bash away...

[–] gabby_bm 10 years ago

One could easily turn it off after the "Scrooge" promo and be perfectly fine. But i usually get pulled in by Bobcat. Then Frank's friends at the Outreach who think he's Richard Burton...Carol Kane... The old guy kicking his cat....

There's a lot of good ingredients in this movie. And it's generally just a bit of fun.

My New Year's resolution is to simply write 2̶0̶1̶4̶ 2015 instead of 2014"
.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Darthfrodo58 9 years ago

I'm with the OP, not a single feel good genuine moment in the whole movie. Everything seems fake or forced. Hated it.

Snakes....I hate snakes

[–] king_cooler 9 years ago

Fake, forced and cringeworthy.

Bill Murray still does his schtick at the end like pulling the hat down over the kids' eyes even though he's supposed to have changed.

There wasn't a single genuine heartfelt moment in it.

[–] MuggCostanza 9 years ago

3. Frank Cross' final 'conversion' speech is totally unconvincing.

Bill Murray is best at cynical, self-absorbed schtick. Most of that final speech is delivered in that same 'Bill Murray' style. I don't know if it's the writing, or simply that Bill Murray is not a good dramatic actor when a little humility and drama is called for (brief appearance of a tear in his left eye notwithstanding).

Lines like "do this or you'll burn in hell, I guarantee it" suggest his conversion has less to do with genuine humanity and more to do with saving-his-ass. This is reinforced by his wipe-of-the-forehead-whew-dodged-a-bullet thing when he's looking up at the ghosts in the studio rafters.

This entire speech is also undone by his 'breaking the wall' thing and reverting back to 'Bill Murray' mode. It's amusing, but doesn't fit well at this point in the movie where we're supposed to be feeling a warm glow.
(Also, watch the out-of-focus crowd behind them. Most of them aren't singing, some look bored...)

My wife makes me watch this dreck every year and I hate it. Thanks for letting me vent... bash away...

This is my take on the final speech and how Bill Murray delivers it. Look at what Frank Cross had just been through. He's been a man of control who ultimately loses it because of three ghosts. At the start of the film, he's collected and in control; but as his day progresses, he is driven mad by his encounters with the ghosts.

So by the end of the film, when the final speech takes place, the man is obviously hysterical. It wouldn't be a wise acting choice if he just came out and calmly made his speech. Everything was boiling up inside of him all day and he just released it. It may have come across as unconvincing to you; but I think how Bill Murray delivers it is fantastic and to me, you can just feel the hysteria and desperation of a man who is trying to balance in his mind, just what the hell has taken place that day.

[–] TerrorTribble 9 years ago

So by the end of the film, when the final speech takes place, the man is obviously hysterical. It wouldn't be a wise acting choice if he just came out and calmly made his speech. Everything was boiling up inside of him all day and he just released it. It may have come across as unconvincing to you; but I think how Bill Murray delivers it is fantastic and to me, you can just feel the hysteria and desperation of a man who is trying to balance in his mind, just what the hell has taken place that day.

I'm right there with you. You do feel like Frank could break any moment and that's what makes the speech feel very raw and organic.

And it's fine that he hasn't entirely lost his humor. Being a better person shouldn't mean you become Mr. Bland.

[–] MuggCostanza 9 years ago

Exactly! It was a big ending and it needed to be big! Big hysterics, a little bit of humour and a whole lot of heart!!

[–] TerrorTribble 9 years ago

Lines like "do this or you'll burn in hell, I guarantee it" suggest his conversion has less to do with genuine humanity and more to do with saving-his-ass. This is reinforced by his wipe-of-the-forehead-whew-dodged-a-bullet thing when he's looking up at the ghosts in the studio rafters.

Well the threat of eternal punishment goes back to Dickens' novella. And it more just means "justice will come and find you, and it will be right, so wise up."

He's already a selfish douche when he first meets Claire. I cannot picture any universe where this sweet, cute girl would find this guy endearing or appealing. Nor do I believe she would take him on as a 'project'.

Actually at that point, Frank hadn't done much douchey stuff yet. Sure, he has an attitude and you either find it appealing or you don't. But he doesn't really go into jerk mode until he dumps Claire.

[–] Soodinum 9 years ago

You meant loathe, not loath. Verb vs adjective.

[–] Galagatron 8 years ago

For me, the Christmas Carol story just bores me. I've seen it time and time again in everything from movies like this to TV Christmas episodes. The only one I have the patience to watch anymore is the Disney one.
Another thing... I'm rewatching this for the second time every (I saw it in the theater) and it is so loud and brash with everyone (mostly Murray) yelling a lot throughout the whole movie. I've never felt so annoyed by Bill Murray. Maybe it's just my mood right this moment, I don't know.
Observation: It kind of feels like a Terry Gilliam movie.

[–] Kotter7579 8 years ago

Exactly! It was a big ending and it needed to be big! Big hysterics, a little bit of humour and a whole lot of heart!

Well said. It was a nicely delivered speech and worked well with the movie.

That would make 3 Christmas' I've saved, vs. 8 that I've ruined; two were kind of a draw..

[–] suebob-28169 8 years ago

It's not a good film.
It was by far the worst Bill Murray performance I've ever seen. And I like the guy.
Groundhog Day was a much better film with essentially the same theme.

In regards to ResVoCoder's earlier response in this thread, I disagree that it's not a good film. However, I understand his opinion about it. You have to be in the mood for the tone and approach of this film--it's not for everyone and is more adult than family-friendly. You are either going to accept Bill Murray's over the top approach to Frank's redemption or you are not. Last year when they ran it I was more "meh" about it. This year I enjoyed it more.

I do agree that Groundhog Day is the better film, and Murray had one of his best performances.

[–] Kotter7579 8 years ago

The man who knew too little was a great Murray performance too.
Not to take away from his Groundhog Day performance, but Andie McDowell is and always will be a terrible female lead. She is what makes Groundhog Day less desirable for repeat viewings.

That would make 3 Christmas' I've saved, vs. 8 that I've ruined; two were kind of a draw..