MovieChat Forums > Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986) Discussion > Seriously?? This thing better than episo...

Seriously?? This thing better than episode III?

posted 12 years ago by WheezePuppet
38 replies | jump to latest

I've heard numerous Trekkies remark "the even-numbered ST movies are the only good ones" as they rave about episode IV and diss III. This is absolutely unbelievable to me. "Search for Spock" was a marvelous piece of cinema, nearly as good as "Wrath of Kahn" and consistent with it in tone and character. A perfect complement to its predecessor in bringing the Genesis plotline to continuation. Its only weaknesses were in not getting Kirstie Alley back to play Saavik, and in somehow forgetting about Carol Marcus completely and not explaining what happened to her. But the decay of the planet, the struggle with the Klingons to obtain the Genesis device, the destruction of the Enterprise, and the death struggle on the surface were all first rate.

Then comes this monstrosity, seemingly aiming to be a sitcom but failing entirely. Shatner loses all his energy, Kelley loses all his savvy, everybody makes dumb jokes, and it's about time travel (*groan*), saving whales (*groan*), returning to planet Earth in 1980's (*groan*), and featuring the perfectly awful Catherine Hicks. What is there to like about this movie?! Can we please move on and continue the serious-and-compelling sci-fi of the Star Trek movie universe?

[–] bjlevine 12 years ago

Its a comedy. Don't take it too seriously.

"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"

[–] johnjohn7799 12 years ago

Go talk about "Episodes" in the star wars board, will you?

[–] Star_blazer_9000 12 years ago

III is ok but not great. Had a thin script and stretched it out to death. Its only purpose was to bring back Spock and nothing more. Featured a few great scenes including the enterprise explosion. IV was a fun family adventure film that reminded us of the comedy trekkie episodes "The Trouble with Tribbles" and "A Piece of the Action." Its my second favourite Trek movie next to II of course.

My momma loved me but she died
Hud Bannon

[–] TheSolarSailor 12 years ago

Star Trek IV is a fun movie and I still laugh at it to this day, and not in a make-fun-of-it way, but simply because I enjoy it. It probably captures the camaraderie of the crew better than any of the other films. Why do you have a stick up your ass over it?

But if you want to move on and continue the serious and compelling sci-fi of Star Trek, then talk to JJ Abrams who has turned it into an action series with touches of Star Wars. Tell him that Star Wars is now free and he can direct that instead of trying so hard to make Star Trek into Star Wars? Tell him to contact Disney. Maybe he can distract them with lens flares.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Cherubim1 12 years ago

STIV is campy fun but watching it now it's just far too eightyish and very tongue in cheek.

The preachiness in the film (no doubt pushed by Nimoy) was a bit heavy-handed and distracting. Still a light relief after two heavy-handed films.

[–] TheSolarSailor 12 years ago

The planet Hoth with wampas attacking Kirk and Spock doesn't remind you of Star Wars? The heavy laser fire flying everywhere isn't the stuff of a galaxy far far away? Blowing up planets with a super weapon doesn't ring a Death Star bell?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7w1gLzWE74

I dearly wish that Star Trek would get back to what made it so good to start with...exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations, and boldly going where no man has gone before. JJ's film was all style and sleek action set pieces that have been done to death later in the old franchise.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] PillowRock 12 years ago

I dearly wish that Star Trek would get back to what made it so good to start with...exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations, and boldly going where no man has gone before.

I would argue that the thing that made Star Trek stand out was not the "strange new worlds" bit. Lots of science fiction visits strange new worlds.

The thing that I think made Star Trek stand out was the same thing that makes most fiction (SF or not) stand out: a good group of characters that is well developed, both individually and as a group.

[–] TheSolarSailor 12 years ago

Of course characters play a role in how well something does, but so does content. Star Trek used to have a healthy does of thought-provoking story content that is sorely missing from the new film. I dare say that even the characters were pale imitations of the original cast. It didn't click with me at all. Oh well.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] dpcole7 12 years ago

III has the philosophical bent right...

IV almost gets the inverse right when they jumped into the music biz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX8kKEh8DGU&feature=youtu.be

Thank goodness that song was not written in the 23rd century...

IV has its moments, but - yeah - it feels more like a sitcom made in the 1980s...

[–] bjlevine 12 years ago

Star Trek III - Into Darkness
Star Trek IV - Into Light (comedy)

"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"

[–] PillowRock 12 years ago

IV has its moments, but - yeah - it feels more like a sitcom made in the 1980s...

Interesting that you should it that way. At the time (in the 1980s when these movies came out), it was III that had the sitcom connection that hurt the way that it was perceived by a significant portion of the audience.

IV just felt like a Trek movie that was proceeding from the tradition of such TOS episodes as The Trouble with Tribbles and A Piece of the Action and the episodes with Harry Mudd. Those episodes had always been among the fan favorites. That was considered every bit as valid as II proceeding from high adventure episodes such as Space Seed and The Enterprise Incident. TOS had always included that kind of range of styles and most people saw no reason why the movies shouldn't.

The unfortunate sitcom connection in III was Christopher Lloyd's voice. More specifically, it was the voice that Lloyd did in the movie, since that isn't his normal speaking voice. It was OK in the first couple scenes when he was speaking in Klingon (with English subtitles). However, as soon as they made the switch to English for the audience, the first thought that rushed into a great many people's minds at the time was "Reverend Jim became captain of a Klingon ship!" That movie came out just a year after Taxi went off the air, so that association was very fresh and hard to shake at the time. Heck, it's still not that easy to shake for some people old enough to remember when Taxi was a hit. You hear that voice and just start wondering when he is going to ask "What does a yellow light mean?"

[–] bjlevine 12 years ago

Yeah, I had a hard time seperating Kruge from Rev. Jim, and thus, taking him seriously. It did make the order to kill a hostage a bit weird for me (and highly illogical, as Spock might say).

TVH is purely a comedy, but works in the same way A Piece of The Action worked, including Spock having a really hard time fitting in with the environment.

They problem I have is that while the comedy worked well in TVH, it sort of necessitated having funny scenes in the next two movies, many of which were kind of painful to watch.

The bottom line is that for many audiences, TVH was the most accessible Trek movie to come along (at least until ST09).

"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"

[–] PatrickS77 12 years ago

^^Agreed. III is my favourite Star Trek movie. IV is fun, but not really a Star Trek movie.

[–] bond_98 11 years ago

I consider IV to be a Star Trek movie. It actually has something to say. It's not a mindless Bayformer action like an other movie I could mention. Even the Original series episodes had light humor.

[–] Bullingdon 12 years ago

I rewatched all the original STs to get ready for Into Darkness and, yeah, III is far superior to IV. It's not perfect but it's certainly has some interesting ideas that it is able to explore in a manner that is faithful to the essence of ST. IV is just one big goof off. The whole time trave conceit is shallow (especially compared to the time travel episodes and of course First Contact) and exists only to make it a low budget fish out of water comedy which is bad because (a) it's not funny and (b) it makes the crew into a bunch of idiots. Blah. I remember loving it on VHS as a child and I think that must be why so many fans are forgiving of IV. Beyond that I have no idea why it's held in such high regard.

[–] jritty 12 years ago

Pretty much all the films were better than III lol... III isn't BAD but it's cheese factor kills it...it has more un-intentional comedy than this has intentional lol

case-in-point: the scene where Lloyd stops (for no reason) to kill that giant worm that SO obviously a guy's HAND...that should have been left on the cutting room floor. It's hilariously BAD. The new Saavik stinks...lots of 'bad' choices made in III.

Maybe you HAD to be there for this one. This was prob the most fun I ever had in a movie theater. The audience was like one entity for this pic - every joke KILLED. It's quite a stroke of genius - and was a much needed break in the heaviness of the first 3 films. I really don't know if people seeing it now for the first time can grasp how good it was...shame for them though, their loss - and yours.

It's almost more a comedy/sci-fi than sci-fi/comedy. Plus the entire crew got shine in this one. Fantastic movie - there's a reason it was a such a big hit - audiences LOVED IT and NOT the in the sheepish way every goes to movies nowadays. Probably the very definition of 'positive word-of-mouth'.

If it wasn't for Chris Lloyd's 'theatrical' performance in III that movie 'might' have stunk - Nemoy's first time direction did nothing for that picture. He was much more capable in this one.

I'd say 2,4,6,8,11 & 12 are all EQUALLY the best.

You Suck...now deal with it.

[–] missrhea 11 years ago

Maybe you HAD to be there for this one. This was prob the most fun I ever had in a movie theater. The audience was like one entity for this pic - every joke KILLED. It's quite a stroke of genius - and was a much needed break in the heaviness of the first 3 films. I really don't know if people seeing it now for the first time can grasp how good it was...shame for them though, their loss - and yours.

Wondering where it was that you saw this. My husband and I were dating at the time and saw it near Washington, D.C. The whole audience cheered when the whale breeched. I saw it again a month or so later with my mom in a movie theater in Elmira, NY and nobody made a sound! What a a downer that was!

I think it helps to have seen TVH in a theater with a bunch of Trek fans. It's still my favorite of TOS cast films. (Star Trek V is my least favorite.)