Firstly, I’m somewhat annoyed at all these generalisations about Europe. It’s true that you can probably get away with publicly showing nudity a lot more here, but that doesn’t mean that everybody is in favour of it. I for one hate the fact that most female-related cosmetic products involve a naked woman because it’s a mark of the further idealisation/objectification of women, and not so much of ‘liberalisation’. contact-258 (although I am aware that it’s been a long time since she has posted here) I generally agree with what you were trying to say in relation to nudity (we’ll leave the politics aside here – I could go on all day about that, but that would distract me from the point). Parents should be allowed to monitor what their children see – that’s in relation to nudity as well as violence, swearing or adult themes if they so choose.
I’m a 19-year-old girl from Ireland (no, I’m not Catholic) and I have to admit that had I seen this scene at a young age it would’ve probably shocked and embarassed me. I realise that under every person’s clothes there is a naked body, but that doesn’t mean that you have to see it. My parents were relatively cautious in showing either myself or my sister material that they deemed unfit for our viewing. It was their right as parents and I don’t blame them for it. I think that it’s quite unfair how contact-258 was slated for making her point. Being ‘liberal’ doesn’t make you a better person; I don’t think that my parents’ care in censoring my viewing (I’m not talking in extreme ways here, just in generally not showing me films that were for a higher age group) has in anyway made me a less well-rounded individual. Why should a young girl have to look at a naked man? I never came across any fully naked men in my young childhood (at least not after the age of 3 – I wouldn’t have remembered before then) and I’m glad I didn’t simply because I didn’t have to. Sure, I came across naked little boys when I was small, but that’s a fairly different and far more innocent than a young girl confronted with naked men. The thought that any young girl should be seeing men naked (in real life), particularly ones that aren’t related to her is a somewhat disturbing one.
I’m well aware that the bathing in this film was perfectly innocent; I sensed no homoerotic undertones (I’d half expected people to be ranting about how one of them was a priest, although thankfully posters here are mature enough not to be bothered by that) it seemed more to me a display about how men (at least men of the middle classes and above) were comfortable with their nudity (despite popular belief/stereotyping) and how it was just their way of having fun. But you have to note that the nudity was only intended to be seen by the men present – I doubt that they would’ve done it in front of women (in that time period). I was shocked to see this scene in the film only because I wasn’t prepared for it. It was shown at 7pm, a pre-watershed time, so naturally I didn’t expect any full frontal nudity of either gender. As far as I recall I’ve never come across any PG film in which either gender was shown naked from the front. Honestly, had I seen it ten years, even 6 years earlier I would've been very embarassed. It’s not that kids don’t know what sex is – usually at the age of about 8 their pretty aware of it, I know I was – but the fact is that they don’t understand the reasons behind it until their teens so why should they view it? I guess that a scene of naked men would only shock if you weren’t used to seeing men completely naked, so certain children from certain backgrounds mightn’t at all be bothered, and I don’t think that I saw full frontal nudity in a film until I was about 15 or 16, so as a child it would’ve been new to me.
I guess that in most films it’s become a standard that for a man the camera will halt at the waist line, or at least that some strategically placed object will get in the way of their private parts. I just wasn’t expecting it in a film of that rating. And as other viewers have said, it could’ve been filmed in such a way that the water went up to their waistline or that they were filmed from the back when they were running around the pool – it probably would’ve offended less people (I can think of several PG films with naked men – just not men shown from the front) . But if that’s what the filmmaker wanted then, fine; but then if that be the case then I think that a little bit of warning about that scene might be a good idea.
As for arguments about nudity in art – I understand that there is a lot of nudity in art and I agree that it’s perfectly okay for children to see it. Indeed if a child is okay with seeing men’s penises then I doubt that anything would bother them in this film. I’m an art history student, and I can’t think of any famous artist before the 20th century that didn’t deal with nude subjects, although the female nude is dealt with several times more than the male nude, and even then it is very rare that you will see a woman’s genitalia in painting/sculpture, at least not until the latter half of the 19th century. And seeing a sculpture of a naked man, such as, for example, Michelangelo Buonarroti’s David is a little different from seeing a man running around naked on screen because firstly, the former, though for the most part, anatomically correct, is still a monochromatic sculpture and not the real thing, and secondly because a sculpture like that is completely still, and not running around with everything swaying in motion.
philip_vanderveken;
"Contact-258, I don't know how old your children are of course, but don't you think that you are over-exagerating a bit. I mean, they will find out what sex is sooner or later and if it isn't in a movie that they see nudity for the first time, than it will be on the internet or when they are with some friends. Experimenting is of all ages and you can't keep an eye on your children all the time. You should know this or have you never been young then?"
Yes, kids will find out about that kind of stuff eventually, but is there anything wrong in keeping them, need I use the word ‘innocent’, at least when they are young? There’s a fine line between childhood and being a teenager – a teen experimenting with their sexuality is one thing, but do you really want a child doing that? I think that contact-258 has every right to shield her children from whatever she wants to – within reason, and I don’t find that shielding them from adult nudity is unreasonable
fico_of_arboria;
"Sports teams in the UK regularly shower or bathe together in a confined area (as do the rest of the world, I gather). I doubt you'd call many of those homosexual. Not trying to be Freudian, but why are you so disturbed by nudity? Being comfortabe with the nudity of another person does not mean that you are sexually attracted to them. My mates and I have skinny dipped together. Picture the scene: you're on a long walk, the weather is hot and you find yourself near a lake. Oh, hang on, we haven't got our bathers, so we'd better not go for a swim..."
But a sports team bathing together usually implies roughly the same age bracket and the same sex. In changing rooms in public swimming pools from my experience there are always certain women who have no qualms about baring all – that doesn’t mean that I have to look in their direction (and it would be impolite to stare at them anyway). And in terms of skinny dipping with your mates – well, that’s precisely the point – they’re mates, people that you’re comfortable with, not just random actors who have immortalised themselves by appearing naked onscreen for many people to look at.
I understand that the scene was trying to be humorous (I didn’t find it funny not so much because of the nudity but simply because I found it very predictable) but I think that it then deserved a higher rating so that people who might be offended by it could steer clear. I wasn’t offended by it – only surprised to find it there – and glad that I didn’t discover it at a younger age with my parents there because that would’ve been embarrassing in more ways than one…
Hector Barbossa; now that's a pirate!
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