MovieChat Forums > The Color of Money (1986) Discussion > Were pool hall people that gullible ?

Were pool hall people that gullible ?

posted 2 years ago by Who (5146)
27 replies | jump to latest

Looking at that scene where Eddie, Vincent and Carmen walk into the pool hall, hoping to make off with $5k from the rich “whale”. How could no one spot these grifters a mile away?

Let’s run down the neon red flags here:

They drove up in a flashy white Cadillac

The pool hall owner greets Eddie as “Fast Eddie” the minute they walk in the door.

They are the only white people in there.

Eddie stands at the entrance, pointing his fingers at the local characters, telling Vincent which one is the whale, which is the shark.

Then Vincent is expected to play a few games skillfully enough to attract interest, but throw the last few moves just to look a little incompetent too.

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[–] Golfaddict666 (523) 2 years ago

Only thing I can think is that the Negro people who were there weren’t that smart or uninformed

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[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

The movie has some unrealistic situations in it but back then, people would play just about anybody if they thought they could win some money, especially if they didn't know who they were. Although, if someone knew you were a pro they wouldn't play you.

But that was the beauty of the sport back in the day, a top player could walk into a bar or pool room and most, if not everyone in the place, wouldn't know who he was.

I remember seeing people lose seven or eight hundred bucks or more to someone they didn't know was one of the best players in the country. I've seen that happen several times. This probably still goes on today but I haven't kept up with it over the years.

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[–] Who (5146) 2 years ago

Yes, but I bet the top player would dress down a bit, try to blend in. The crew in this film stood out like sore thumbs everywhere they went.

I didn’t understand how a savvy, “been around the block a few times” type guy like Eddie got conned so easily by Forrest Whitaker’s character either. All the cons in this movie were weak. It’s like the writers had to buy a “How to do a con job for Dummies” book just to write scenes for this film. I guess if the film is about knuckleheads conning even less competent knuckleheads, it plays out. I would have found the story more interesting if the con artistry was more sophisticated and opaque.

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[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

Surprisingly enough, good players would still dress a little over the top sometimes. People would still play'em if they didn't know who they were. But yeah, they would also dress down when going to a bar but not as often in a pool hall.

Yeah, getting suckerd like that was not in Eddie's nature. But the way that scene played out in the movie is kind of cheesy. Only a real player could beat Eddie, it would be hard to defeat him or next to impossible to win this way, I mean, to get lucky rolls like Whittaker's character did. To beat a good player, you have to play good, and not depend on lucky rolls or "trick" shots.

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[–] rex (2828) 2 years ago

I've been hustled plenty on the pool table. 1 guy grabbed a mop & shot with it beating me, another offered me 4 balls off the break & some shooter called Sharky offered up the 7,8,9 playing 9ball. its a fun game full of hot shots like vincent

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[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

lol.. yeah I've seen guys use brooms/mops to beat people. Good players can spot amateurs a lot because they can clear the table almost every-time they get a shot.

So, spotting someone the 7 and 8 who isn't a real pool player is not even giving them a handicap. It's just not gambling for them, its stealing money. :)

Rule of thumb for amateurs, if you can't run at least 4 balls consistently, you shouldn't play a good player for money.

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[–] rex (2828) 2 years ago

well thats just the thing about the OP, pool halls are full of players just ready to gamble

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[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

true... big difference between going into a bar and going into a pool hall.

I lived in a big town back in the day and you could get "action" as they called it, anytime day or night in a pool hall. You could walk in there at 3am in the morning and get a money game.

Bars were different though, you had to "hustle" to get a game in those joints but you could still win some money there.

But from I've heard, a lot of people don't even play pool for money anymore. The hold'em poker explosion killed pool. At least that's what I've heard... I haven't played in a long time though, it's not a scene I've been around for quite some time.

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[–] rex (2828) 2 years ago

i've found that at bars there's always a hustler or two lurking, but the pool halls are very active even with Poker rooms legal now here in Texas. i go enough to see the regulars & have learned not to challenge them but action players are a dime a dozen

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[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

I'll tell you a funny story...

I was in a pool hall one time and there was a nice piece of artwork hanging on the wall, it was a painting of several legendary players of the game. And one of those legends was in the pool hall on this day.

A guy came into the pool hall that I've seen a few times, he was a good player, and he challenged the legend. The legend beat him out of about $500 in about 2 hours. Later on, the guy came up to me and asked me who he was, I wanted to tell him that his portrait was on the wall but I just couldn't.

He didn't know who he was... surprising too because this guy had been around the block a few times.

He found out later on at a big pool tournament who he was playing on that day. haha.. it was pretty funny.

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[–] rex (2828) 2 years ago

who ?

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[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

who what?

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[–] rex (2828) 2 years ago

who was on the wall, who was the big player

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[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

Wade Crane

he's not as well known as guys like Steve Mizerak but he was a great player back in the day.

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[–] rex (2828) 2 years ago

wow, he didn't know after that banging break, that dude was on Espn once or twice playing 9ball. I showed up about 10 years ago to my local spot & all the boys were huddled over at an outside table watching. Walked up and there was the black widow bent over shooting her shot. We watched her run rack after rack for over an hour. she was so pleasant & welcoming.

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[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

I never got a chance to meet Jeanette Lee. She was one of my favorite female players though.

I knew Wade for a brief moment back then but I don't remember seeing him on TV. I used to enjoy watching those TV matches. The pro tour died out though. I think they have some other tour now in Florida or whatever... not sure...

Ohh wow, I just noticed, it's getting late, we'll have to pick this up tomorrow. have a good one...

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[–] rex (2828) 2 years ago

right on

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[–] stickman38 (3347) 2 years ago

Rex,

When did you see Wade on ESPN? I know he actually got killed in a car crash about 12 years ago.

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[–] rex (2828) 2 years ago

late 80s, they use to air the circuit events & he was playing either earl or reyes. i remember studying his break, nothing like moving that 8ball on the break or making it

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 2 years ago

It's a pool movie trope. No spies like James Bond exist either.

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[–] Who (5146) 2 years ago

The plots in Janes Bond are fantasy but at least they are sophisticated and complex enough to make James look like a clever guy.

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 2 years ago

so agents like that are spy movie tropes. that was my point which you agreed with

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[–] Who (5146) 2 years ago

My critique was not to the characters so much as the plot they are put in. It’s too simplistic. Yes, tropes exist. Was that your point?

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Being able to afford a Cadillac doesn't mean they were good players. There are a lot of ways to make money. Eddie didn't even make most of his playing pool by the time this movie starts.

Eddie stopped hustling like twenty years ago. He was forced to retire at the end of the Hustler. I think he mentions that he hasn't done it for a while in this movie. I doubt the players would know him. The pool hall owner was a little older.

Being the only white people probably should have attracted some attention.

I'm not sure why the three of them standing at the entrance talking would be a red flag to the other players.

I guess that would come down to how well Vincent faked being a good but not great player.

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[–] Who (5146) 2 years ago

Their entrance was so loud and flashy in that one scene. It’s not only that the pool hall owner knew Eddie but he shouted “HEY FAST EDDIE!!”. They weren’t just talking at the entrance. Eddie was obviously pointing out the key players to hustle and avoid to Vincent. How did Eddie even know about these people if he was not a pool hustler? When do total strangers enter a bar and know the backstory of everyone there?

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Why would they care that he knew the pool hall owner, though? That doesn't make him a hustler. Other than the name Fast Eddie. That sounds like a hustlers name, I have to admit. LOL

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

There's only one scene all those elements happen in (around the 50-60 minutes mark) and ultimately Vince blows the setup and walks away with chump change just like Eddie said he would.

It's sandbagging, not grifting. Make Vince look good enough to not be out of place but not good enough to be a serious contender. That's the real ploy. So the Cadillac, the Balabushka and having a has-been like Fast Eddie as a mentor isn't out of place. The only real hustler they had in the film was Forest Whitaker. Even at that Eddie knew the setup long before he lost it all. He was too busy wallowing in self-pity to walk away from it.

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