Sophia's own fault - The Color Purple (1986) Discussion

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Arimas01 13 years ago

I never meant to give the impression that Miss Milly was right. My point was the fact that her children were there and she was addressing not only a white woman, but the mayor's wife. That alone could have gotten her lynched and put her children in danger also and for what? Just because someone offered her a job.

Its easy to say what you would have done today (2011) but we are talking about the Jim Crow south before Martin Luther King, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson etc.A time when black people couldn't even look a white person in the eye, Adults had to say "yes sir" and "no mam" to not only white men and women but to white children too.

It was common in that time for a black woman to have jobs such as doing laundry, cooking, cleaning, looking after white children and even nursing them. When a chauffeur, for a black man was consider "a good job".

Miss Milly was obviously ignorant and a little "off" she didn't mean any harm. That was the type of lifestyle she was use to. She actually meant it as a compliment and not an insult. Sophia took it there. A simple "no" would have saved her a lot of pain and suffering.

Even though we all have the freedom of speech, you also have the freedom to suffer the consequence.

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[–] ray_of_lght 13 years ago

Yeah, I agree sshayslett. When Miss Milly told her her children were "so clean" and asked her if she wanted to be her maid, Sophia should have said "Thank you, but no maa'am."

Also, when Rosa Parks was told to move to the back of the bus to accommodate a white passenger, she should have said, "Yes sir" and got to moving. I mean didn't she have a husband at home to attend to?

And when those students in NC were told they couldn't eat at the Woolworth's counter with the rest of the white patrons, they should have said, "Oh, sorry sir/ma'am" and politely left the store.

And when blacks were told that they couldn't attend certain schools, or drink from certain fountains, or had to enter establishments through the back door, they should have accepted that as the lifestyle of the time.

You are so right, sshayslett. People should just accept any ole disrespect (especially if done politely) and never stand up for themselves. [/sarcasm]

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[–] Arimas01 13 years ago

"Yeah, I agree sshayslett. When Miss Milly told her her children were "so clean" and asked her if she wanted to be her maid, Sophia should have said "Thank you, but no maa'am."

Also, when Rosa Parks was told to move to the back of the bus to accommodate a white passenger, she should have said, "Yes sir" and got to moving. I mean didn't she have a husband at home to attend to?

And when those students in NC were told they couldn't eat at the Woolworth's counter with the rest of the white patrons, they should have said, "Oh, sorry sir/ma'am" and politely left the store.

And when blacks were told that they couldn't attend certain schools, or drink from certain fountains, or had to enter establishments through the back door, they should have accepted that as the lifestyle of the time.

You are so right, sshayslett. People should just accept any ole disrespect (especially if done politely) and never stand up for themselves. [/sarcasm]"

You forget something, Smartass. Those people were organized. They didn't just fly off of impulse. Rosa Parks was the secretary for the NAACP. She and the NAACP knew exactly what they were doing. They used Rosa because they knew that it was less likely for her to get beat up or jailed for a long time. Her background, (e.g, age, skin color, sex and profession) made her seem less of a threat than a dark-skinned, teenaged, unemployed male from a broken home. So don't think that situation was all about a woman not giving up her seat because her feet were hurting.
The students at NC planned that sit it as well. They were given rules as to what to do and what not to say. I'm sure none of them said "Hell naw, we ain't getting up".
All of these people weighed their options and they knew the consequences of their actions and to them at the time it was worth it for a change and to make a difference. What difference did Sophia make by just using that simple word "hell"? None, except giving up her freedom and her kids to be locked up, beaten and stripped of her mind and any dignity that she had. Maybe that would be worth it to you, but its just not for me.

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[–] pinkpanache 13 years ago

I personally don't think that she was in the wrong. She was really brave for speaking her mind. I respect her for that. Whether she was arrested or not, it really doesn't matter (Nelson Mandela spent 27 years of his life in jail as well), but I love her spirit. In the end, it didn't really get her down. She became her old self again when Celie finally stood up to Albert, maybe that act of defiance reminded her of who she used to be. I think you aren't looking at the movie as a whole. Screw the time-period and look at who the characters are as people. Sophia had a strong personality and she wasn't willing to change herself for ANYONE, not even the government. She might have been impolite to Milly, but in Sophia's eyes Milly was impolite to her too. We all have different ways of responding and I would give Ms Milly a big-ass Hell no too. She went to jail because of something she believed in (equality). I would too. Maybe Sophia's act and resilience is what inspired Celie to stand up to Albert. Revolutions are usually NOT peaceful.

Ms Milly was annoying and bigoted (did you hear what she said when the men were trying to help her operate the car? She thinks black people should have been grateful towards her for being not-so-overtly racist towards them). The argument that she didn't know better is nonsense. There WERE white people at that time who believed in equal rights for all Americans. She was an obliviously ignorant woman and didn't even really care that Sophia wanted to spend Christmas with her children (or else she would have let someone Sophia knew drive her home).

In the end, don't forget that it is just a movie and something dramatic needed to happen at some point.

You're not on the guest-list, okay?

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[–] crystyl1116 13 years ago

Good post @pinkpanache. You summed it up well.

"The pain only reminds us that we are alive."

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[–] Arimas01 13 years ago

"Screw the time-period" this whole blog is abot the time period.
I would give Ms Milly a big-ass Hell no too".

I Seriously beleive that you wouldn't. Especially back then and to the white mayor's white wife. It's easy to say what you would do if you are not in the situation.

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[–] rascal67 13 years ago

What a classic scene this is......in a film with many! This would probably be one of the first things people rememeber from this film when recollecting the 'The Color Purple'. Prime example of the strength of the story and of the conflict arising out of it. The film is a testament to Spielberg's talent and skill in bringing Alice Walkers's award winning tale to fruition.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] jacinta-l-s 13 years ago

Oh my god, I am so happy to finally read someone with perspective!
I thought I was the sole voice of reason and I was beginning to get scaaaaaaaared reading all these *beep* up comments!

Thank you for having a brain!!

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[–] jacinta-l-s 13 years ago

A simple no in the style of acquiescence would have saved her suffering?
Damn! If only you could've told that to Che Guevara!
Who needs revolutions anyway, right?
People ought not to stand up for themselves and just do as they're told and allow people to treat them as they like, you're so right.

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[–] Arimas01 13 years ago

Most of you are thinking in today's world. You think that you can say anything to anyone and get away with it. Yes, we live in the U.S "a free country" (so they say). We all have the freedom of speech (so they say), but while you exercise that right, keep in mind that you also have the freedom to suffer the consequence for that right. I am not saying that they were justified in their behavior but what I am saying is that she should have known better and it was just not worth the trouble that she got herself into.

I know that this is a free country and we should be able to wear and say what we want. So why don't you take a stand? One night just walk thru a "hood" that is notorious for gang activity where no one knows you. Wear the wrong colors, throw the wrong signs and bring attention to yourself while walking past 5+ gang members and when one calls you out then use your freedom of speech and yell out "hell naw, I do what I want to do. This is a free country and I'm standing up for my rights". See what your freedom of speech will get you. If you do this then you are one brave stupid ass person that likely won't make it out to tell the story.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] jacinta-l-s 13 years ago

What an excellent point you make. You know, you should have advised Martin Luther King the same way you would've advised Sophia, if you could've. Then maybe he would've lived to a ripe old age and we'd still have slaves! HOORAY!

Imbecile.

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[–] Arimas01 12 years ago

What an excellent point you make. You know, you should have advised Martin Luther King the same way you would've advised Sophia, if you could've. Then maybe he would've lived to a ripe old age and we'd still have slaves! HOORAY!

This is one of the stupidest replies and the dumbest example that I've read so far. MLK would have never handled that situation the way Sofia did. MLK was too intelligent to respond to Miss Milly's job offer with "hell no". He simply would not have said that, it would have completely been out of character. That was very ignorant of you to bring up MLK. You should have read up on him before you used him in this argument by trying to make your point because you actually helped to make mine.

Don't Worry Be Happy.

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[–] MrsMonroe74 13 years ago

anyway. why wasn't the mayor embarrassed he got knocked the *beep* out by a woman? rofl

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Hubba Hubba, my name is Bubba.

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[–] MrsMonroe74 13 years ago

& to the op, if you're black. I'm sure when slavery was legal, u would have been the best damn slave $ would buy. peace out.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Hubba Hubba, my name is Bubba.

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[–] Arimas01 13 years ago

@ MrsBonner my race is not the issue. If I were green with orange stripes I would have the same opinion.

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[–] deblasiogwae 13 years ago

It's interesting that in her review (a pan) of the movie the great critic Pauline Kael said that Sophia was jailed for 12 years, when it was clearly 8--1922-1930. Shows you that even great critics and writers are not perfect.

And I AGREE with the OP. Sophia's anger seemed out of place and functioned to me as a plot device.

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[–] Arimas01 13 years ago

Thank you so much delasiogwae. I think everyone is misunderstanding my point. If they read all of my post instead of lashing out they would get what I'm saying also.

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[–] rascal67 13 years ago

Sophia was full of fire and the punishment she got was harsh...........but yes I agree that she should\could have held her tongue. As condescending as Miss Mille was, that was her way and that was the way things were. Ironically, she ended up being (as Celie put it) Miss Millie maid after all.

Sophia was not stupid, but her character showed no sense in this scene and she would have been aware of the consequences in hitting a white man,let alone the mayor. Even her partner was saying Nooooooo.... to her. Sophia was a fighter and amongst her own family members and friends fine, but there are moments in all our lives when we have no choice but to humble overselves in spite of how we may feel at the time—even in the face of extreme prejudice.

This scene and what happened to Sophia after was appalling, but it proved a point about how difficult it was for African Americans at that time and unfortunately for Sophia this was one battle she couldn't win.

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[–] manofsteel4455 13 years ago

I'm sure when the OP and everyoneelse who agrees with her/him on this board gets older they'll understand Why Sophia reacted the way she did.

You want to play the game, you'd better know the rules, love.
-Harry Callahan

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[–] rascal67 13 years ago

Please elaborate manofsteel4455 so that we we may grow.

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[–] JeterzGirlNJersey 13 years ago

Are you for real? The ignorance of people really is astounding at times. First of all, she had no business saying that condescending *beep* about her kids being clean. Who the hell just comes up to someone saying something like that? Secondly, how was working her to death for crap pay helping her out? You know she was not going to pay her any real money. Lastly, even if she had said "No" nicely, they would have reacted the same way. The fact that they were white and she was black was the issue. Some of you need to read a damn history book and learn about a little thing called context.

It's nobody's business but ours.

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[–] rascal67 13 years ago

It's not so much the way she said 'Hell No', it was the fact that Sophia hit the mayor that got her into hot water. I fully understand why Sophia reacted in the way she did, but that is the point—the way in which she chose to react. Sophia may have still got into some trouble over what would have been perceived a disrespectful manner, but to my mind it was her violent reaction that got her landed a hefty term in jail. Had a white person hit the Mayor, the consequence would likely have been the same. And Sophia still ended up being '.....Miss Millie Maid after all'.

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[–] manofsteel4455 13 years ago

This is so stupid!You guys are actually complaining about her not wanting to be a pushover?!!

You want to play the game, you'd better know the rules, love.
-Harry Callahan

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[–] Arimas01 12 years ago

Are you for real? The ignorance of people really is astounding at times. First of all, she had no business saying that condescending *beep* about her kids being clean. Who the hell just comes up to someone saying something like that? Secondly, how was working her to death for crap pay helping her out? You know she was not going to pay her any real money. Lastly, even if she had said "No" nicely, they would have reacted the same way. The fact that they were white and she was black was the issue. Some of you need to read a damn history book and learn about a little thing called context.

I don't understand how you can call me ignorant when you obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about. I'm a realist. I don't believe in fairy tales. My opinion still stands that Sofia made a stupid mistake and it cost her her freedom but it could have cost her her life. We are talking about depression era south. Someone saying "your kids are so clean" would have not been an insult. If you really look at this movie, you will notice that none of the kids are clean. They are mostly all dirty from running around and playing barefoot in tall grass, mud and dirt all day. That's what all kids did (black and white) in the rural south during that time. Not only did they play outside, some had chores and likely had to tend to the animals or fields. There were no video games, telephones, computers or TVs so for entertainment they played outside. There was no indoor plumbing so they didn't have bathrooms with showers and bathtubs so they likely only took baths once a day at the most. Probably at the end of the day. Add to that the fact that they had no washing machines and likely wore their clothes more than once before washing them. So that comment shouldn't have been so shocking and offensive to Sofia that she was willing to risk her safety because of it.

Then there's the job offer point that you are trying to make. Again, this is the depression era and she offered Sofia a job. She had noway of knowing that that type of work was beneath Sofia. Had Sofia simply said "no" and walked away, there was likely nothing else that would have been done at that point. I seriously doubt that Miss Milly would have gotten so angry as to capture Sofia, enslave her and demand that she work for peanuts all because Sofia rejected a job offer. That's ridiculous. The most logical assumption would have been Miss Milly simply finding someone else to do the job. Sofia wasn't punished because she rejected Miss Milly's job offer. She was punished for the disrespectful way she rejected the offer.

You sound like a stupid fool for assuming that we don't know anything about history by saying that we need to read a history book when you don't even know what you are talking about. Let me give you some advice, before you start insulting people's intelligence make sure that you've done all of your homework first.

Don't Worry Be Happy.

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[–] jacinta-l-s 13 years ago

What in the *beep* is wrong with you?

Sophia had a rough life, she was black, she was a woman, she was poor. It was *beep* TOUGH. She had to suffer all different types of discrimination, and she said it herself - she had to fight her whole life.

Some ridiculous white woman speaks to her offensively and in a discriminatory and rude manner - and just because it was the early 1900s and all black people were being treated like *beep* does not mean they should have had to lie down and *beep* TAKE it because, oh you know, THAT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS WERE and all the other black people were taking it and the other white people happily instigating it! People who make that disgusting argument like so many of you here have are the kind of people that keep morally repugnant and outdated social norms in fashion. Go the *beep* to hell and before you do, make sure you let other people think for you because you sure can't *beep* do it for yourselves.

Where was I? Oh yes. Some ridiculous white woman speaks to her degradingly and naturally Sophia answers in an offended manner, (so sorry to those of you who think she should have stayed in her place like a good little black woman did back in those days, how dare she have a sense of pride, how dare she feel she is worth something!).

Then she gets slapped by some total pig, and then she answers in kind!

HER FAULT? HER FAULT?

Go back to the early 1900s, morons, you're archaic and most of your kind are dead by now, wish their mindset had died with them.

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[–] Arimas01 13 years ago

Wow Jacinta or whatever you call yourself. I'm happy to have your attention. But my only point was that it was not worth the trouble she got herself into. You have to pick and choose your battles in this world and a white woman asking a black woman in rural 1920's georgia if she would like to be her maid is not really a good reason to have your life and the life of your children put in danger, but that's just my opinion. Beating, shooting and weighing down a little black boy with a cotton gin fan for whistling at a white woman, for example is a really good reason to throw your hands in the ring but being offered a job as a maid is not.
For all the critisizm that I've received for this subject it's easy to imagine what you would do in post-Jim Crow era when alot of people let rap music, street gangs and drugs cloud their judgement and give them a false and irresponsible sense of security and buying a gun is as easy as buying a hamburger.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] jacinta-l-s 13 years ago

What in the *beep* is wrong with you?

Sophia had a rough life, she was black, she was a woman, she was poor. It was *beep* TOUGH. She had to suffer all different types of discrimination, and she said it herself - she had to fight her whole life.

Some ridiculous white woman speaks to her offensively and in a discriminatory and rude manner - and just because it was the early 1900s and all black people were being treated like *beep* does not mean they should have had to lie down and *beep* TAKE it because, oh you know, THAT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS WERE and all the other black people were taking it and the other white people happily instigating it! People who make that disgusting argument like so many of you here have are the kind of people that keep morally repugnant and outdated social norms in fashion. Go the *beep* to hell and before you do, make sure you let other people think for you because you sure can't *beep* do it for yourselves.

Where was I? Oh yes. Some ridiculous white woman speaks to her degradingly and naturally Sophia answers in an offended manner, (so sorry to those of you who think she should have stayed in her place like a good little black woman did back in those days, how dare she have a sense of pride, how dare she feel she is worth something!).

Then she gets slapped by some total pig, and then she answers in kind!

HER FAULT? HER FAULT?

Go back to the early 1900s, morons, you're archaic and most of your kind are dead by now, wish their mindset had died with them.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] rascal67 13 years ago

As for this mass distain over Sophia daring to step out of her given line in front of her children? Best lesson she could have given them. Hopefully any kids in that position would grow up with zero aspirations to play maid to oppressive fu^kos and with some fire in thier gut.

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Are you saying littlerikita that the best lesson she could have given them, is to deprive them of being their mother while she was in the can for 8 years or whatever it was and ruin her health? Later on in the film when Miss Millie takes her to visit her family for xmas and she breaks down, her daughter asks her why she is crying, Sophia responds with "It's because I don't know you no more". I really dont think that was the lesson Sophia would have intended to give her children; but she let the fire in her gut burn too hot and her pride got the better of her. Sophia's children in this scene were very young and I wouldn't say that agressive behaviour is aspiring by any means to display in front of your children or as other posters have mentioned placing them in danger as well because of an initial trivial incident involving a twit like Miss Millie. You gotta pick your moments.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] rascal67 13 years ago

.....I'd personally be far prouder to have a mother who spent 8 years in the can for adhering to her principles and challenging personal inequality.......

The way I see it, the children of women like Sophia would have been telling their children and their children's children that story.. and you can bet your a$$ none of them would have said, 'Idiot. She really should have just recognized her place for a quiet life'.
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From your own perception littlerikita, you have made an interesting quite valid point, but they could also be thinking......was it really worth it'.

If Sophia's situation were real—or even similar situations that colored peopled endured during this era—I don't feel it would have made any difference too the way things were at that time. Look at all the vitriol that was unleashed on Sophia by the other white people who witnessed the commotion. As far as the authorities were concerned Sophia got put in her proper place and I doubt that the intention of her character was to be a martyr to the cause. When she started shouting......'Get my children outta here. Get my children outta here', only then would she have fully realised the implication of her reaction. This situation wasn't just about a racial issue, it then also became a Sophia issue.

This important scene in the film was meant to provoke anger and confusion at the injustice and to show how difficult it was for colored people of the era in the deep south. It proved how racist the attitudes were and no matter what was said or done it was in a sense existentially arbitrary. With the end of WWII and the advent of new technology and television, people then started to be made more aware and voices could start to resonate.

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[–] mharris674 13 years ago

Whether Sophia was being rude or not by saying "hell no" is irrelevant. If she feels someone has spoken rudely to her she should be perfectly within her rights to respond in kind, without being hit across the face. Once hit she should have the right to defend herself without being smashed in the face and thrown in jail for 8 years.
Yes she could have reined herself in and apologised, thus avoiding any further trouble for herself but she decided to fight back and faced the consequences. It may have not been the sensible thing to do in hindsight, but it was the RIGHT thing to do. Everyone should have the right to defend themselves.
The argument seems to be between the types of people who would choose not to fight back for fear of repercussion, and the people who would fight for their rights regardless of the consequences. If everyone kept quiet for the sake of an easy life like that first group, then nothing would ever change for the better.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] oldewill 12 years ago

That wasn't fighting for anyone's rights..The only thing the kids and other "Black"s" around there learned is if you disrespect a White woman you'll land in prison for 8 years..

I like how some people think its ok to just go off on someone. If someone says or does something you don't like...Like you have a Obama pin on and someone says they don't like Obama. So now you have "The Right" to verbally and physically assault them ???

Could someone tell me is it written in the bill of rights ...You have "The Right" to ,a little different than above, Cus and hit anyone who has hurt your feelings,has a different opinion, or you just don't like.

http://youtu.be/iDiwoKOD8hA

http://youtu.be/9WNPorqIyD8

http://youtu.be/v5YEY925Gew

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[–] rascal67 12 years ago

Whether Sophia was being rude or not by saying "hell no" is irrelevant. If she feels someone has spoken rudely to her she should be perfectly within her rights to respond in kind, without being hit across the face. Once hit she should have the right to defend herself without being smashed in the face and thrown in jail for 8 years.
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You are missing the point mharris674, there were hardly any rights during this era in south for colored beings, so it wouldn't have made any difference.

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The argument seems to be between the types of people who would choose not to fight back for fear of repercussion, and the people who would fight for their rights regardless of the consequences. If everyone kept quiet for the sake of an easy life like that first group, then nothing would ever change for the better

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Fear of repercussion has got nothing to do with it. Things can change as a matter of due course regardless of what is said or done. Also, the eye for an eye mentality is a very limited narrow way of solving issues. There is no personal growth with that attitude.

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