despite whatever their huge sentences were, both are now free, and the timothy hutton character broke out of jail and robbed banks, before being recaptured and then released! Does anyone know why a jail breaker/bank robber/traitor was released early from his initial sentence of high treason?
shareJust as a matter of clarification, Judaism is 3,800 years old. Thus older than Buddhism, Christianity and Islam.
"If there is ever an answer it is always 'more love.'"- Bryan Free
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This movie was on cable tonight, and I've always enjoyed watching, but I'm a little confused. At the end, it states that Boyce was convicted of espionage and Lee of treason. Cait Boyce says neither was convicted of treason. And, why did Lee receive the longer sentence? It was Boyce who provided the information, it was his great idea. Lee was a coked out dope dealer, for Heaven's sake!! Actually, perhaps the film is incorrect, but Lee rejected the initially and when Boyce sarcastically calls him a "patriot", Lee says yeah, he is! Lee does agree, but basically is was the same as dealing, just a different "drug". I'm more concerned with the cold, calculating manner in which he endangered his obviously unbalanced friend. Clearly he knew Mr. Lee's character, and I think he played on that, surprise, another act of betrayal by Mr. Boyce.
This forum is the first I'd ever heard about Boyce's subsequent career as a bank robber. Hmmm...espionage, robbery, escape. You betcha, Cait Boyce, that's the Boy Scout I'd want to marry. Oh well, you'd be guaranteed life would never be dull!
But you know what? I think I'd rather have my Mr. 50 yr. old, served four years in the military, didn't sell any secrets for fast cash, deposits his weekly paycheck into the FDIC insured bank-about to be robbed by a Mr. Boyce-willing to lay his life down for wife, family, and fellow man, still salutes the flag of this great nation, and never complains about leftovers, boring kind of husband. And the best thing about my hubby? I don't EVER, EVER, have to worry about defending him on forums such as this. Yeah, my man might be in for a treat tonight, I'm looking at him in a whole new light!!
Oh, and one more thing, in reference to Cait Boyce's post stating what charges he was convicted of:
What a relief that the secrets sold weren't real "secrets" at all!! Disinformation, oh my I can sleep better at night, no harm, no foul. Can you imagine if he'd actually sold the "good" stuff! Wow! How lucky we Americans are that Mr. Boyce had such a conscience!!
why were they both released ?
shareI heard they got released because after getting gang raped for 25 years by the crips, bloods, aryan brotherhood and the mexican mafia their colons has to be replaced. They were being passed around cell block D like slices of vanilla cake at a wedding. They both have hiv, syphilis, hepatitis, herpes and never suffer from constipation. Justice was done.
sharenmeisher: Are you just so ignorant that you repeat the most obviously ridiculous information as truth? Come on, keep up with us. Please read the posts of those prior to yours and perhaps you will see the stupidity in the "info" you have relayed. Otherwise, step back up on the porch and let the big dogs play.
Let the hammer of just fall hard on the unjust.
thanks caitboyce for your information, you are great ,your husband is a hero
share"Husband is a hero." If I planted a bomb in a movie theater or church or school, knowing full well that people would be hurt or killed, and then it turns out that the theater/church/school was empty, why should I be considered LESS GUILTY? Mental culpability. And if that theater/church/school was scheduled to be torn down, I guess I should be considered a "hero" for doing the job first. THE TWO OF THEM WERE CRIMINALS, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THEIR MOTIVATION WAS GREED. BOYCE COMPOUNDED HIS CRIME WITH ESCAPE AND BANK ROBBERY. BOYCE SERVED LESS THAN HALF HIS SENTENCE! THEY BOTH GOT OFF VERY LIGHT. THERE IS NO HEROISM HERE! WAKE UP!
share"thanks caitboyce for your information, you are great ,your husband is a hero"
Javy,I think you need to go back to your own dictatorship,we are a nation of laws,not one dimensional 3rd world goons.How does a guy sell info to a foreign government,do copious amounts of drugs,rob a bank,and escape from prison,all to become a hero?That's what I call at best,bad decision making.On the other hand,he served half of his life in prison and he is on parole.He has a wife who defends him(which I applaud)and he will spend the rest of his life trying to live down his infamy and have a normal existence.But he is not a hero.
BTW,Sean Penn is a huge disgrace and the child of Communist Party members.
I wouldn't call him a hero. His views and opposition to our government's actions, and his desire to do something about it, those are okay. I myself find it particularly distasteful at best that we would call someone a friend while screwing them and manipulating them all the while. And I can see him wanting to do something about it.
What I don't get is why he would think the Russians would be any better. I also don't see the reasoning that selling info about spy satellites - the ones that were part of the early warning system, among other things - to the Russians would balance things out in any way, or whatever he thought about it.
I've read the book. The satellites were a pretty big deal. Giving away the tech data about them would damage that early warning, make the chances of a war that much greater.
I know he didn't go to the news because no-one was paying attention to the revelations about our involvment in the coup that brought down Allende and put Pinochet in charge, but I still believe there should have been a way to pass on the facts about the manipulative activites the government was engaging in, get the information out in the open. And I think his cynicism on that score was in error.
After all, Chile is one thing. Australia, I believe, would have brought a lot more public disapproval. Not to mention pissing off other allies who might start wondering just how much the events in their countries were natural developments, and how many were artificialy induced by us.
Incidentally, does anyone know how the Australia thing was treated when it finally became public? I was still in grade school in the 70s, and wasn't much interested in the news...
No, no - Pillage first, then burn! Stupid Vikings...
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To answer your question about the treatment of the Australia thing.....it was and still is mostly ignored, as there has never been any evidence to suggest CIA involvement. The dismissal of Whitlam was an internal situation, still the only time the obscure dismissal powers of the Governor General have ever been used. Most reputable historians and others familiar with the situation dismiss any question of CIA involvement. At the time, as well as now, it gained almost no play among media outlets, therefore scant information to most Americans. Many Australians (my brother-in-law among them) know little if anything of US involvement in the situation either. It is clear that our government was not particularly fond of Whitlam and that Whitlam himself claimed the CIA was invloved in satellite tracking and communications within Australia, going so far as to name names of suspected (maybe actual) CIA operatives. However, our government's major objection was that Whitlam was a bit too left leaning for our taste, but probably not enough to warrant our orchestrating a dismissal. As a matter of fact, one area pointed to by Whitlam's supporters was his insistence on formalizing relations with China and our government's objection to that. Of course Nixon was simultaneously doing the same thing rendering that argument baseless. There are many other situations that made our government uncomfortable as well. While there is little doubt our government, particularly the CIA, had many discussions involving the Whitlam government there is no evidence, and little innuendo to support claims of our involvement in the Whitlam dismissal. It is generally accepted to be a story that Boyce jumped on to attempt to divert attention from himself and excuse his actions. Truthfully the entire story of the Whitlam dismissal is far too complicated for this type forum but it is terribly interesting.....almost as interesting as Boyce's story. Now....what I have posted is the generally accepted account. As for the truth....that's anyone's guess.
shareStill a f'en traitor in my eyes. All these crimes should have added up to life in prison. My guess is he is still living in the US. That would be the height of hypocrisy if so. After all he hated his country or he wouldn't have sold classified information. Just another liebral democRatic way to look at things. Should have moved to the Soviet Union since they seemed in his eyes to be the better country. Someday I hope these two get their just desserts whatever they may be.
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Chris met Cait while in prison, she is a paralegal whom just before 1995 contacted, met and fell in love with Chris!!!! So in order to free Chris she knew Daulton was the key, in Dualton's release is what she knew she would base her plea for Chris to be released. Meaning her basis Chriss'parole as she previously stated was Daulton was free from prison so why shouldn't Chris be as well? SHE'S VERY SMART, SHE KNEW SHE HAD TO FREE DAULTON WHO DIDN'T RACK UP THE BANK ROBBING CHARGES TO BOOT, TO FREE CHRIS! But it's odvious she is wanting the credit for being the girl in the movie and for having always having been there from the begining and if nothing else, her saying she's been there for 30 plus years with him, is an outrageous lie. She seems to be wanting to mask that she indeed was NOT, therefore not wanting to admit she's just another chic that fell for her inmate pen pal, since that is how she became involved with him. And then using her paralegal status as it is, to have more contact with him than normal once she decided she 'loved' him. I guess the allure, sick as it is, of the movie and Chriss' notority made it something she doesn't want to admit but it was a time she was not around for, nor did she even know him at the time, as he was living with Gloria White. But she has come along hoping that her being a paralegal without a name and certainly no fame, can create one for herself. No part of the movie is about her, they hadn't met till, like I said contacted Chris, wanting to give herself that name, and in turn fell for him, which really pushed her into the crusade for help with parole. Many of Gloria White's children, she's the woman in the movie, the woman whom helped harbor him and helped assist him during the bank robbing, are in and out of prison, mostly for drugs, rapes and molesting thier own children, and she ofcourse, for harboring them as well. Cait, maybe you can help put them back on the streets as well. You can look at that on www.ruralnorthwest.com Also check out: www.crimelibrary.com, click on the Cait and the Gloria chapters. And good luck Cait, carrying him around on your shoulders, allbeit no matter how used to it you are by now, can't be easy since I don't think he's raking it in with his job he recently took leave from at Petco, but I'm pretty sure slinging has name around has made you feel important and using the status of his small pinacle of fame in your favor, since you, unlike what you said "don't generaly post on these things", the truth is, you do, at any opportunity you can grab and you have used his name like a credit card to gain notority and a listening audience, even if you do try to achieve that by misinforming the public of your involvement of other than pen-pal turned legal aid turned wife. Sometimes we all have to reach out for something to give our lives meaning, and baby, you've found your nitch. Good luck. ***I didn't have any problem with any of this, not Cait, not Chris, not Gloria or otherwise but lying really pisses me off. So it's not personal and what he did well, he was young and stupid . Just in the future don't lie and don't try and be somewhere, something, and someone you are not Cait. Along with this you state he was released from a half way house in San Fransisco(your house) wanting that to be all you as well, but the truth is he really was in an actual half way house not your house! And only got to visit you at yours because they allowed him 3 day passes each week! Therein lies a pattern for you wanting to be in the center and recieve credit for things you are not! I do give you credit for your genius in coming up with and sticking out with this plan of yours to carve a name for yourself by any means possible.
And acting as if you know and chat it up with Sean Penn is ridiculous, you hounded Daulton EXPLAINING THE CONTACT WITH HIM 6 YEARS AGO, who is employed by Penn because you are trying to push a movie to be made that includes YOU and your helping them with parole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Yet again making it ALL ABOUT YOU!
I have come to believe your involvement with Chris is based on an a detailed a plan as Chriss' spy activities were for him! Your intentions from the marriage are clear.
*p.s. I know the White family.
Meow!
shareDear Julie,
Thanks so much for taking time to share your venom with the world - I hope you feel better now.
As for your comments to me and about me, it is very clear that you have no idea who I am. And frankly, with as much hatred as there currently is in this world, I'd like to keep a clear distance from people like you.
Suffice it to say, your comments are not worth addressing on any level.
Best of luck to you.
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jeez, I hate to call someone an idiot but if the shoe fits... I went to school with both Chris and Daulton Lee and still maintain some slight, repeat SLIGHT, contact with them both. And like an idiot I got convicted and did 3 years in prison with both of them. Your statement to Cait Boyce "your postings here have totally distorted many facts which are readily available in the two Falcon books" is just plain stupid. It was written in two books so that makes it all true? It was made into a movie so that makes it all true? I don't think so pal. First of all, Daulton Lee does not live in Fremont California - he still lives in Rolling Hills Estates. Not too far from where he grew up. He gets to hold his head high? Who are you kidding! After Daulton's release from prison he did go to work for Sean Penn - and then left that job soon after when he saw something bigger and better on the horizon. The last thing I heard about this drug-adled creep was that he was doing some sort of real estate pyramid scam in Los Angeles. "Daulton did his time like a man and has nobody to fear". Who are you, Daulton's brother? Daulton has plenty to fear - he burned people in prison as well as out of prison. You want to talk about weasels - Daulton is the leader of the weasel pack. Barely got out of high school, never had a job in his life other than drug dealing and working briefly for Sean Penn. No education in prison (unlike Boyce who got a college degree). So what do you think he's doing now? I'm guessing he's still living off his mother. As for Boyce coming off as heroic and noble, guess again. My history is not a good one - I ran into Chris again when both of us were doing time. There was nothing noble or heroic about Chris. But what I did find was a gentleman. He was kind and polite to everyone around him. He was well liked and extremely smart. Paranoid? I don't think so. He's not hiding out - he's trying to live his life without people like you showing up on his doorstep. I got to meet Cait when she did my parole hearing in 1984 - long before she worked on Chris' parole. I was introduced to her by another inmate and frankly, I owe my freedom to her. That woman is formidable when it comes to her parole work. She's not just some dumb-ass paralegal who presents a case - she fights. She fought for me (and I've never been in any trouble ever again). She fought for Chris and she fought for Daulton. But she fought for a lot of other inmates as well - and a lot of them are leading decent lives on the outside now because of her dedication. Don't knock someone that you don't know and have no knowledge of.
So maybe it's you who needs to go easy on the world buddy - you sit behind a computer keyboard and make comments about people you don't know. You make judgments about people that simply aren't true. But worse, just because there are 2 books you think they tell the complete truth. As I said, if the shoe fits...
Blonde Bob
cool, well said
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Wait a minute. What "movie" As far as I know, there was never a movie made about the escape, or any of the time after the convictions. What "julienid" talking about?
sharei know why.
because traitors who are against america and for russia are no longer known as traitors, but heroes.
it's really lame, but it's how things have been since the mid-nineties.
if you're the salt of the earth then the earth is a slug
So you have to ask yourself, why? Couldn't be cuz of all the conservative DOUCHEBAGS trying to foister their antiquated ridiculous beliefs on the rest of the country, COULD IT??? naaaaaaaaaa. People aren't necessarily FOR Russia, just AGAINST the BS that America has become
shareI've seen the movie, read the book "Flight of the Falcon" and grew up in the privileged world of America's defence industry culture. Heck, I grew up Catholic too... just like the Chris and Daulton did in the 1970s.
Our parents fought WWII and were too loyal to Uncle Sam to step out of line. Us kids, who saw the travesty of Vietnam, the US sponsored coups worldwide, watched the Watergate hearings "live" and understood what Senator Frank Church was up against... had fewer issues with "outing" Uncle Sam then and now.
The shame of it is that our young American brothers and sisters born too late to witness America's bungling past in those days signed up for the 9/11 pony ride to Afghan and Iraqi fun fests before they realized it was an American set up from decades before. (Forgive me for paraphrasing folks, there's so much disinformation from D.C. it cannot be properly documented here!)
Once you get some education... travel a distance from the black and white philosophies of the followers of John Wayne's America, you'll understand a little about the world Chris and others of his generation faced.
Daulton Lee did drugs and sold 'em to flakes like G.W. Bush. Chris worked as a clerical assistant for adulterous sleazebags on overseas assignments to kill and destroy paid for by the American taxpayers while at TRW. It's not hyperbole when you connect the dots.
So, it's 2008... and until the world's cryptofascist puppets of the managerial elite derail the Obama campaign, it looks like the pendulum is about to swing in Washington, D.C. again.
Three cheers for Chris Boyce... he was a brave young man at a time when America had truly lost it's direction. I hope there are some braver young Americans today who can expose those on our public payroll who are NOT ladies and gentlemen.
God Bless America and Chris Boyce!
-"Mary Shut The Garden Door"
I agree for the MOST part. I don't, however, agree with Chris' chosen "solution" or "answer" But, I'm sure he, as many of us now, felt helpless to do otherwise. He did, however, potentially put more innocent people in jeopardy. As for Obama, I'm afraid he's cut from the SAME BS mold. As phoney as they come. The REALLY sad thing is that today, no decent candidate would DARE subject himself to the scumdrudgery of running for office, so we get losers. It's all part of the mediocrity the US has become. One great big Bell Curve where the morons of the nation have the same voice and vote as the rest of us. We get what we get. There is, unbelievably, STILL peabrains out there who support Bush. STILL! Such stupidity should be criminalized. Now, had Chris strapped himself with 100 lbs. of C$ and walked in the nearest scumbag corporate office (there's so many, just pick one) and blew the scumbags back to the stoneage, THAT would've been a logical and more effective solution.
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I have no sympathy for either man, you don't spy on your own country. They put every Americans life at risk with what they did. Thank goodness the info they did sell wasn't worth anything. Spys should be shot.
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um, clown, what country IS capable of carrying out this kind of strict punishment??? The U.S. has the highest rate of ANY civilized country. Now, talk about Death Penalty for Morons and so-called "conservatives" (Same thing, I know) aka hypocrits, NOW we're talking That should be enough to warrant death, or at least non-stop public floggings
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I see you have the US in good company hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaahaaahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha
Here's your theme song...
"If I only had a brain!"
It boggles the mind how stupid mindless, brainless unedcuated morons like you actually get up in the morning and tie your shoes. You MUST be from that bastion of intelligence, Texas
Constitution: Article III, Section 3, bears the mark of a provision the primary reference of which is to history:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
United States Code Title 18, Section 2381.
Treason:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war
against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and
comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason
and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five
years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and
shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
Treason Death Sentences:
Ethel Rosenberg and Julius Rosenberg. Sadly, the FBI and the US Giovernment later confessed that the only reason they executed Ethel was to get Julius to talk...
As for Boyce and Lee. Obviously you haven't read the case and are just stating an uninformed opinion. Boyce and Lee WERE NOT indicted for treason. They were indicted for espionage and the conspiracy to commit espionage. Not the same as treason. never has been, never will be. Maybe before you write this crap you should take a look at your US COdes and actually familiarize yourself with US law...
"Maybe before you write this crap you should take a look at your US COdes and actually familiarize yourself with US law... "
But, but, that would require they have (gasp) BRAINS! naaaaa. Can't have THAT, can we???
USA, where even the biggest zero, loser, pea-brain, numb-skull dillweed, jerkoff, scumbag, inbred moron has the same vote as you! WHAT A COUNTRY
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yea, the "founding fathers" would be SO proud of where the country is now. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Like I said, death penalty for the criminaly STUPID.
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dick-for-brains. Buy a brain, then call me, we'll do lunch. Ignorant uneducated inbred scumbag. You wouldn't know an "intelligent conversation" if one bit you on the left nipple
share[deleted]
Emphasize verifiable.
shareMany of these posts seem to be missing the point. After being raised on Cold War propaganda that America could do no wrong and was a force for good in the world, Boyce discovered that America was engaged in activities that were quite underhanded and manipulative, and were the same sorts of tactics America accused the Soviets of. That's the point of the film (as well as the point that you can go wrong when you act on your outrage without thinking it through carefully).
shareI got the point in 1985 and I get it today. The reality was that how ever evil and renegade as the CIA had become in the 1970s, the Soviets were doing far worse things, and the things the Soviets did in the 70s and early 80s have had terrible consequences that linger even to this day.
The thing that bothers me most about the posts on this thread, is that almost all of them reflect a partisan point of view. I'm a progressive, liberal (not Democrat!) myself, but I think that should be some things that all can agree on. First and foremost is that the Soviet Union was a blight on humanity, and it's destruction was an imperative. If some under-handed tactics were needed towards this end, then so be it.
As for Boyce and Lee, the thing that stands out is how incredibly young they were at the time of their crimes. How did Boyce get such a high clearance job at such a young age? His father pulled strings? Ridiculous cronyism... Some other folks should have gone to jail over this.
I do fell that Boyce and Lee deserved to be paroled when they were, primarily because they were so young and impressionable at time of their offenses.
"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"
Christopher Boyce has a new book coming out in 2013 where he talks about his escape, surviving prison, and how he and Daulton Lee were eventually paroled. I've been reading up on it at www.thefalconandthesnowman.com. Be interesting to read it when it comes out. I think there's a law that forbids felons from associating with one another so I seriously doubt they're still in contact.
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