despite whatever their huge sentences were, both are now free, and the timothy hutton character broke out of jail and robbed banks, before being recaptured and then released! Does anyone know why a jail breaker/bank robber/traitor was released early from his initial sentence of high treason?
shareYeah, and Bush still breathes.
shareNO matter what the subject is, someone always has to mention Bush. Its pathetic, like him or not.
shareIt's was all Bush's fault. Now it's all Trump's.
shareIt's was all Bush's fault. Now it's all Trump's.
You're not being specific, which is the norm for Trump-haters. I think you really have no idea what you're talking about.
share
Lorenzo D.
Yes true and when former President Bill Clinton was in power, he missed many
opportunities to go after and apprehend Osama Bin-Laden years before the
tragedies of 09/11/2001. Citing a Fox News Channel interview last year
with Chris Wallace our former president danced around the subject when it
was brought up by the interviewer and several sources tied to the Clinton
administration have confirmed these allegations! So there you have it, by
the way I really enjoyed "The Falcon And The Snowman" and the storyline was
very well told.
Lorenzo Sunny Florida
Why shouldn't he be? For one thing, these guys are old now. For another thing, he broke out of jail 3 years after being incacerated- and then stayed in jail for another 23 before being released...ON PAROLE. Never confused being on parole with being 'free'. They have severe limitations placed on their freedoms and are under surveillance. That said, what are they gonna do? They've served their time- do you have any idea how long 25 years in jail is? And it's YOUR tax dollars paying tons of money to keep em in jail, this is also cheaper.
shareDid anybody here know that Andrew DAulton Lee kept in touch with Sean PEnn for years after they made the movie? When Lee got out of prison Penn even gave him a job working for his production company. Yet another reason Penn is the coolest guy on the planet.
sharedid andrew daulton lee and christopher boyce see the film ?are andrew and chris still intouch with each other or intouch with sean ?what did they think of it ?this is one of my faves of seans films,along with at close range,we're no angels,racing with the moon,i am sam,mystic river bad boys andfast times at ridgemont high
i've also seen she's so lovely,hurly burly,taps and dead man walking,up at the villa and u-turn.
Did anybody here know that Andrew DAulton Lee kept in touch with Sean PEnn for years after they made the movie? When Lee got out of prison Penn even gave him a job working for his production company. Yet another reason Penn is the coolest guy on the planet.
You should really shoot for a reality based life, you may find it more rewarding. If Mr. Penn wishes to help someone he might try starting with a wounded vet.
Rich in New Mexico.
Sounds more like the typical Anti-American Sean Penn is.
shareRight because giving work to a convicted traitor is the coolest, most admirable thing a person can ever do. So tell me, what's it like, being an ament?
shareNo a single bullet is cheaper ! Anybody who is a traitor to this country should be SHOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've got a job, a secretary, a mother, two ex-wives and several bartenders that depend upon me
Hey Numb-Nuts... isn't the whole "SHOOTING / BULLET / HEAD" thing called MURDER!!??
Glad it's only a movie... take another PILL and CHILL...
You talking to me you stinking anti American slug ? ALL TRAITORS SHOULD BY SHOT! Would you prefer hanging? Jack ass !!!
I've got a job, a secretary, a mother, two ex-wives and several bartenders that depend upon me
Um, no, in case you were unaware, this one was not "only" a movie. Christopher Boyce and Andrew Lee were REAL people who committed REAL crimes against America. And they both should have been shot. And no, that wouldn't be called murder...it would be called JUSTICE. Makes me sick to my stomach that idiots like you are allowed to vote.
shareKnow what would have been cheaper still? The bullets spent by the firing squad those two vermin should have stood before.
sharelast post was very elucidating. I wrote not out of a spirit of patriotic fury at all, just seemed like an odd turn of events barely mentioned, given there was a whole movie about it.
shareThey should have both been shot. If Daulton had chosen to go to the Soviet Union, that's how he would have ended up.
share[deleted]
Wow...this is very interesting stuff. It's funny how life works. I watched the movie on satellite just last night.
I would love to hear what Mr Boyce would say now...About his crimes, time in prison, the book, the movie....maybe he will write something?
I agree.
Commumism was certainly the precursor to modern Islamism, in that it was basically a religion being passed off as a political movement. It also offered little hope for anything other than poverty and oppression, even while claiming to be able to end such things.
The Rosenbergs were executed for what they did, and rightly so. Thier goal was to facilitate progress in the Soviet Atomic weapons program, allowing them more leverage in forcing thier ideology on other. Had they done it for money, excitement, sex, or anyhting other than ideology, I could empathise with them much more than I do knowing that if they'd had thier way, I would not have nearly the freedoms I do today, economic or otherwise. I can't understand why anyone could support that, especially ideologically.
[deleted]
"Islam and Buddhism are the oldest religions on earth."
Just so you know Islam is a very recent religion as compared to Christianity. Buddhism is roughly 2,500 years old (having started around 500BC) so you are right about it. Christianity started with the teachings of Jesus around 30AD. Islam on the other hand is still a baby as Muhammad lived around 600AD.
[deleted]
"Stand by your man"
Do-do-dooooo.....
I believe the oldest surviving religion is Judaism, which existed in Egypt prior to the Roman empire conquering it, I couldn't say exactly how old the religion is but it rivals Buddhism at the very least and quite probably beats it by quite some time.
share"Yes, though it is true that the Rosenbergs were executed, it was proven (by FOIA documents and witnesses in the federal government) that Ethel Rosenberg was innocent"
ER was found guilty of conspiracy to commit treason, as she knew about her husband's activities, not treason itself.
"You don't support ideology? Your freedoms are based on ideology. When the pilgrims left England and landed here, it was the ideology of a free religious state that brought them. When the Constitution was written it was ideology - the view of every man being free - that caused it to take shape."
Realistically, one could not truly be against ideology anymore than one could be against thought. What I don't support is thier speciif ideology, which included the opression of those that did not share thier beliefs. But that's my bad. I was unclear on my intent
And so that you know - Communism was never a religion. Communism has always been a political party - recognized by every country in the world. If you research the tenets of Communism, you will find that religion has no bearing.
Communism, or more specifically, Marxism, has little or no empirical evidence to support it. Marx basically fabricated a system based on early Smtihian economics, and manipulated it to fit his own ideology. Fundie Christians do something very similar when they try to use science to validate thier views on creation, even when it's not directly supported. As such, no educated person could buy into Marxism without having a faith in it that transcended empirical evidence. That's why I reffered to it as a religion, as opposed to an economic or political system.
Furthermore, Islamism, or political Islam, makes up a huge part of Islamic society, even among moderates. Relion iimplies spirituality, but Islam almost always includes politics as well, along with using government to enforce religious beliefs. It also stresses theocratic devotion above secular learning. That's never good.
That's why I made the comparison.
BTW, thank you for your response. Have a good christmas!
Cait Boyce
check out the implosion conspiracy.i dont remember the author but it seems to be a fair reporting of the rosenberg trial and a good barometer of the times.the rosenbergs probably would not have been executed but for the climate of fear that existed at the time.as well many americans believed that russia was still an ally as they were during ww2.the soviets probably would have developed nuclear weapons on their own sooner or later and america was far ahead of them at the time.i believe that the rosenbergs were misguided and idealistic but if they had gone on trial at another time they probably would have received only prison time.
shareI agree. The reason the Rosenbergs were executed was that they refused to name names, and therfore bore the brunt of all of america's anti-communist tendencies. In reality, the real damage had already been done, but by men that chose to name names and cooperate. That cooperation kept them out of the hot seat.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
The Rosenbergs had their way. Since the Soviets did develop nuclear weapons.
sharespeech! speech!
“Can't go wrong with taupe."- Wynn Duffy
This may already be well known news but at the url www.thefalconandthesnowman.com there is information that Christopher Boyce is writing a book about his experiences in prison and how he was released. There's also a blog there that he writes talking about past experiences. The book is titled THE FALCON AND THE SNOWMAN: AMERICAN SONS.
share@ Mrs Boyce,
Why did Chris robb three banks? Personally, I feel some sympathy for the younger "version" who was convicted for espionage, but less for the older one who steals money from fellow citizens.
How do you see this? Don't you think he left you alone by committing a second crime and doing even more time?
Were you involved in any way in the bank robberies?
Yours,
Geert Lemmens
Readers and Posters:
Please forgive the fact that it has taken me this long to get back to the people who wrote with questions. Life is busy for both Chris and me and I don't check the board regularly. I hope the following will answer some of the questions you asked:
Questions about bank robbery: Chris pled guilty, despite knowing that he would receive the maximum sentence of 25 years. None of the banks that were robbed were private banking establishments. All banks were FDIC insured banks. Therefore, contrary to the statement that he robbed from citizens, he did not. He robbed from the federal government. I'm not defending it, I'm stating a fact. As for the question about my personal involvement with the bank robberies - do you really think I would answer a question like that? Most people do not understand the statute of limitations laws, i.e., the statute does not start to run when the crime is committed, it starts to run when the crime is discovered. This is a huge difference. Alas, in my own defense, I was out of the country.
Question about my thoughts on the movie: I guess the movie is better when you don't know the people involved. The movie portrays the Boyce family to be a huge wonderful loving family. They are huge but that's where it stops. The movie portrays Andrew Daulton Lee to be a slimebag. After almost 30 years of knowing both of these guys, Daulton is not nearly the slimebag that Penn portrayed. But then, characters are characters. Penn asked me once what I thought of his portrayal of Daulton - and I was honest with him, I told ghim I felt it did a huge disservice to Daulton. C'est la vie. I have not spoken to Daulton in 6 years, Chris has not spoken to him in 23 years. From our side of the fence, we see nothing gained in any relationship with Daulton - and neither man is allowed contact with other "criminals" as part of parole. As for the movie - it's not my cup of tea but Chris did work closely with Steve Zaillian to write and rewrite most of the screenplay. When I think about movies that portray the human spirit, I look to "Shawshank Redemption". I guess the main character always reminded me of Chris.
Did Chris leave me alone? One reader posed the question about Chris leaving me alone a second time when he robbed banks. I never thought of Chris leaving or staying. I have been involved with Chris for so many years that I always considered our relationship to be one of deep and abiding respect and friendship. It has never been accusatory or petty "you left me alone and went to prison" is not something that I could say or even feel. I was a whole and complete person before Chris went to prison and stayed that way throughout his incarceration. I remain so today which is why we have a well-adjusted marriage.
Books. movies and life in general: Lots of questions about new books, new movies, etc. For the record - we have approached Michael Medavoy, the President of Phoenix/Sony Pictures and he is interested in taking the new story to HBO. And it remains at this level of "interest" and nothing further has happened. Probably because the film studios are so busy releasing remakes of everything that has been done before... You want a movie? Start pestering Medavoy and the film people. What have we done that you would be interested in? Hmmm... Chris' parole came after a written appeal of his sentence by me. After a lengthy period, we were finally told that the appeal had been granted. It was the first appeal (and the last) to ever be granted by the United States Parole Commission. I based my appeal on issues pertinent to the case - 1) his co-defendant had been released (also as a direct result of my work) 2) Chris had served more time for bank robbery than any bank robber in the history of the federal system (with the exception of repeat offenders) and 3) the term of incarceration for the original acts had been served. During the period of time that I was working on Chris' parole hearing I was diagnosed for breast cancer. Chris was released from prison on September 16, 2003 and was released to a halfway house in San Francisco (my home). We were married under a stand of redwoods on October 19th of that year. This past October I was rediagnosed with a third recurrence of Stage III(b) breast cancer and have now undergone all the required treatment. We no longer live in San Francisco (or in California) and live in a place that I like to call "TinyTown, USA". We have three dogs, a house on some acreage, a henhouse full of chickens and Chris flies a peregrine/gyr hybrid. No one knows us and we like it that way. I still represent federal prisoners but I guess nothing will ever equal the joy of being able to succeed and have Chris released.
Parole: Yes, he is on parole for 1 more year.
I think I've answered all the questions posed but if not, feel free to post more or send them to my e-mail address at [email protected].
[deleted]
Cait, thanks for the posts. Although the film may have taken some artistic freedoms, people that are attacking you and your posts simply do not understand the movie. Not that I agree with all you or anyone said, but they just don't get it. Truth is stranger than fiction.
sharethanks for the update, cait. i am glad you are both settled & happy. i do sort of wish you had more updated info on lee, as well. i am not in agreement with the rest of the posters here. i get it. & thankfully, not all americans support our corrupt capitalist system, not that you associated yourself with any political movement. just wanted to thank you for the update & i do hope hbo decides to pick this up. it is still a fascinating story, & one even the detractors would probably like to see. ;)
serva me, serva bote
Ms. Boyce,
I'm from OC near where Boyce grew up.
I was very interested in his story
and people are learning more about CIA and espionage
now with the Plame/Libby case.
WHat did you think about the book and the film?
I liked the way the film let the viewer decide
whether Boyce/Lee was a good guy/bad guy and was honest
about their emotional state during the affair.
Life is obviously not so simple as the good guys with
white hats and bad guys with black.
Australia (I was just there) still has a knee-jerk compliance to USA.
When Penn(lee) spits in the mirror that is a snapshot of the self-loathing
that he is going through.
WHat was your opinion?
Ms. Boyce,
I have always watched this movie with mixed emotions. I believe that American foreign policy has often been immoral and unfair to other nations. However, I also think what Christopher Boyce did was wrong and a betrayal to those who entrusted him. Does he regret what he did? Couldnt he have found other ways to protest the US govt?
Respectfully,
Scott in FL
I should start off by saying that I was very sympathetic of the portayal of Chris Boyce's political opinions in the film. I think both CIA and the FBI went off the rails long ago. If I have a political ideolgy, it's centrist by world standards and to the left of center here in the United States. I consider myself a pragmatist.
To say that he wasn't a traitor is wrong, though. He betrayed his country by selling secret information to a foreign intelligence agency. I don't see how someone could engage in espionage, get caught, break out of prison, rob banks, get caught for that, and then has any chance of seeing the light of day again. I guess it's alright if he never does anything wrong again, but wow. It's interesting how the criminal justice system screws some people to the wall for minor offenses while others get off easy.
Anyway, as a fellow human being I hope he's doing okay and makes the right decisions from now on out.
I think it's pretty badass.
share[deleted]
Subcin-1 said:
You are both living a nice peaceful suburban life now, thanks to the freedoms of the country that your husband spit on with great vehemence. That's the ultimate irony to the whole story, and it's also the ultimate testament to how wrong his acts were, and how much he STILL owes back to this country for his nauseating and traitorous behavior towards it in the past.
The sad thing is that it sounds like this couple are enjoying a standard of living much greater than most disabled veterans of his generation and their families. All these guys did was obey the law and do their duty. They were maimed in service to their country. The vast majority of them have to struggle working often two or three jobs with no or miserly benefits to meet the basic neccessities of their housholds. Now is that what you call justice?
"They were maimed in service to their country. The vast majority of them have to struggle working often two or three jobs with no or miserly benefits to meet the basic neccessities of their housholds."
GD,where do you get your facts from.the KGB website or moveon.org?Most people that came home from the war went back to doing whatever they were doing before the war.Some became professional victims and are long haired dopesmokers who tell their BS stories to any dumb chick that will listen to them and provide them with sex and passive income.
The biggest traitors of all are the CIA and KGB for all the crimes against humanity that they commited around the world. Owing to what the CIA and KGB did in Afghanistan we have to deal now with radical Islam.
share"Owing to what the CIA and KGB did in Afghanistan we have to deal now with radical Islam."
Another fallacy.The Soviets invaded and we lent assistance to the Mujahadeen and what became the Northern Alliance.I have a friend who was a freedom fighter from Afghanistan and he dislikes the Soviets,Radical Islam,and the Democrats.Our CIA kept the Soviets at bay for years.We owe the Afghans for dropping the ball by allowing Comrade Clinton to defund them,which allowed the Taliban to get a foothold in that country.So I would stay off the liberal blogs,look at the facts,and stop preaching form the Democratic Party Manifesto.