Glimpse of Hell - Brainstorm (1983) Discussion

[–] Unstable_666 21 years ago

nothing is impossible, nothing
if not today, then...well...sometime, eventually

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[–] jimlexo 21 years ago

Gee, thanks for that really helpful reply.*sarcasm obvious*

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[–] 21 years ago

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[–] ckienle 20 years ago

If I remember correctly, the scene you are describing was, in actuality, Lillian's visualization of being back in the womb as a fetus, perhaps her actual birth, but through the eyes of the fetus (or the memory therein, as envisioned through the eyes of her "soul.") Extremely haunting. Oddly not outdated in terms of the effects. No movie since has ever treated this type of subject so well. And please, don't say Flatliners. What a movie THAT could have been if it were treated with the mystique that Trumbull and co. put into Brainstorm. I was very young when my father dragged me to see this movie. It shaped much of the curiosity of life and death that I have had since.

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[–] insane_larry 20 years ago

>It was like she had to view hell before she could get to Heaven.Maybe this was
>to emphasise to this woman's spirit that she was one of the fortunate ones who
>gets to go to Heaven. I can't see how the computer can record this if the body
>of the woman is dead though. This is her soul seeing this and souls are
>unrecordable.

Well, perhaps since a device like this has (to my knowledge) never been constructed, maybe all of this is unrecordable. Emotional responses can be recorded, but emotions themselves? I know they're working on a device to reproduce smells and have made some amazing advances, but I'm not quite sure how they record these.

But what basis do you have to say that souls are unrecordable? There have been enough cases of people taking pictures of peoples' auras and of ghosts to record parts of many things we don't see. And who's to say we're just not paying attention in the right way to observe these things naturally?

And what if there is no such thing as a "soul" or "heaven" or "hell"? It's a possibility, you know...

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[–] thebad 20 years ago

The plunge to "hell" is part of the Christian belief that all souls must spend time in purgatory prior to ascention to Heaven. It's not really hell so much as it's Heavens waiting room.

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[–] Squeezum 20 years ago

"The plunge to "hell" is part of the Christian belief that all souls must spend time in purgatory prior to ascention to Heaven. It's not really hell so much as it's Heavens waiting room."

Since there is no mention of purgatory in either the Old or New Testaments, to say that "purgatory" is a Christian beleif is completely false. Christian's do NOT beleive in purgatory, but the Catholics do since it was one of their Popes that invented it. I think the mentioned scene was suppose to resemble one of Michaelangelo's paintings of Hell (probably the famous one he did in the Sistine Chapel), something most people would be able to identify "Hell" as.

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[–] joshoramandarose 20 years ago

As an English lit major, I can give a little input on the whole seeing hell before Heaven thing. In "Dantes Inferno", (the book, not the film), Dante must traverse the levels of hell with Virgil, his guide, in order to be reunited with his woman in Heaven. The point is, like someone else said above, Heaven looks that much better after you have had a glimpse of hell.

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[–] bregund 19 years ago

Although his books were influential and continue to be, Dante's personal creation in no way represents christian dogma and weren't necessarily based on christian writings or religion; they were less a statement about religion than they were Dante's clever symbolic castigation of some of his contemporaries, a few of whom he loathed. He was at a low point in his life when he wrote the divine comedy, and his inspiration wasn't religion, but anger toward those responsible for his banishment from Florence. The two are very different.

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[–] novimovieman 19 years ago

Purgatory in Scripture

The word "Purgatory" is not in the Bible. This has fed a lot of arguments against it. But let us look at another word that is not in the Bible - "Trinity." Nor is there mention of "abortion" or "homosexual". For that matter, the word "Bible" itself does not appear in Scripture.

Some Evangelicals say "everything that is true is in the Bible." Catholics say that "everything that is in the Bible is true." There is a subtle distinction. Many Evangelicals would say "if its true its in the Bible, if its not true its not in the Bible." But the early Christians didn't have a Bible. It wasn't written for at least a hundred years and the exact books to include were not formally decided upon until the 300's. So the tradition of the Church is important. Catholics believe there are spiritual truths that are inferred in the Bible but not expressly articulated. The Catholic Church thinks Jesus has given authority to the Church to articulate these things. These are articulated slowly and carefully as the Church marches through time on its "Pilgrimage of Faith." Both Catholics and Evangelicals agree that no spiritual truth will conflict with the Bible. Amen to that.

Some Evangelicals claim that Deut 18:10-12 rails against the concept of Purgatory and praying for the dead. The Church feels there is an important distinction between Deut 18:10-12 and Purgatory. Catholics pray for the dead -not to them. I would pray for you but I would not pray to you.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body. (2 Cor 5:10)

Catholics believe there is enough evidence of Purgatory in Scripture to validate its existence. Evangelicals would agree that even if there is one instance of a spiritual principle in the Bible, then it is true because the Bible is the embodiment of Truth.

Paul prayed for Onesiphorous after he died, "may the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the lord on that day" (2nd Timothy 1:16-18).

"After his death, Jesus went to preach to the Spirits in prison" (1 Pet 3:19)

"Nothing unclean can enter heaven" (Rev 21:27)

Catholics believe Jesus speaks of purgatory in Matthew 18:23-35. He says: "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to..." and then He tells a story about a king who forgave a servant's large debt. That same servant refused to forgive a much smaller amount of a fellow servant. The king then threw the first servant into prison "until he should pay back the whole debt." Jesus then says, "So will my Heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart." Catholics feel the prison in the Kingdom of Heaven where one might remain until the debt is satisfied is Purgatory.

Catholics believe Paul also spoke of purgatory:

"The work of each will builder willcome to light, for the day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one's work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss, the person will be saved, but only as through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

Of course some of the most obvious verses about Purgatory appear in the Deuterocanoncial books which the Evangelicals call the Apocrypha. Anyone who accepts those books will have a hard time arguing against Purgatory. I have a comprehensive article about the Deuterocononical books here. The Deuteros were always part of the Bible. The books of the Bible were ratified in 393AD and it remained stable until Martin Luther discarded the Deuteros in the mid 1500's.(He also tried to throw out the Book of James and Revelation) Now I'm told Purgatory is not in the Bible because the parts of the Bible that best defend it have been discarded. I have a problem with that logic but that falls into the apocrypha discussion.

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[–] jaimetout 19 years ago

"Christian's do NOT beleive in purgatory, but the Catholics do since it was one of their Popes that invented it."

Catholics ARE Christians, you moron.

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[–] Squeezum 19 years ago

Catholics ARE Christians, you moron. - jaimetout

They used to be, but not anymore. Catholics pray to various saints and the Virgin Mary rather than directly to God; that is NOT how Jesus told the disciples how to pray. Christians know better than to pray to a saint. Catholics pray with rosary beads and to statues of saints. Idolotry is not a Christian belief, but the Catholics pray to idols all the time. Catholics believe in Purgatory, Christians do not. Show me where in the Bible Purgatory is mentioned. You obviously do not know what you are talking about. Should I continue proving that you are the moron?

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[–] Coyote1800cc 19 years ago

They used to be, but not anymore. Catholics pray to various saints and the Virgin Mary rather than directly to God; that is NOT how Jesus told the disciples how to pray. Christians know better than to pray to a saint. Catholics pray with rosary beads and to statues of saints. Idolotry is not a Christian belief, but the Catholics pray to idols all the time. Catholics believe in Purgatory, Christians do not. Show me where in the Bible Purgatory is mentioned. [] You obviously do not know what you are talking about. Should I continue proving that you are the moron? []

Get your facts straight...rather, learn from the source (catholics), not from people who aren't..

-Catholics don't pray to saints or mary...we ask their assistance. Do you talk to the president directly? No. You ask your representatives. saints and mary are 'spiritual representatives'. At best, catholics honor mary's memory for being selected for the divine birth of christ.

-Catholics don't pray to statues. Do you talk to pictures of your relatives when they're away? Nope. They're just a reminder/symbol/rendering/devotional art of your faith.

Just because opposing religions say catholics do something, doesn't mean they do. I can say all canadians build snowmen, that doesn't mean they do (i'm not a canadian).

Chiefly, catholics don't believe the bible should be taken literally...they believe there are spiritual lessions to be learned, just as jesus taught in parables.

The bible has been exchanged through thousands of hands, and has been written in by hundreds of people...catholics realize this. If we all took the bible literally, we all wouldn't eat shrimp and we would chastize our women during their menstrual cycle. Absurd.

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[–] Squeezum 19 years ago

I agree with your last sentence...Absurd! ;) It's interesting that you omitted explaining the purgatory myth...as I said before, "I agree with your last sentence." ;)

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[–] Dyellyc 18 years ago

Yes probably. Bosch (died 1516) was the painter who did the most un-nerving paintings of hell in older times. He was the H. R. Giger of the abyss. Michael' might have done some too but Bosch was much more graphic.

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[–] bok602 19 years ago

Just a slight clarification: Purgatory is a completely non-scriptural invention of the church during the Middle Ages.

"If you don't know the answer -change the question."

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[–] joegq5 20 years ago

The movie Event Horizon had some nasty hell flashbacks in it that sound a lot like the ones being described here. I've always wanted a better look at EH's hell scenes and am now really curious to see B-storm's hell scenes for the first time. Don't know why. Consider I have Alien and a Clockwork Orange in my video collection. I'm fascinated by the work and production that must go into making such over the top material. Seems like a waste for it to be cut or edited away. Anyone with any insight on how to get a look at this stuff?

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[–] Highice007 20 years ago

I caught a glimpse of Hell when I saw our two choices for President in 2004. Really scarry sights!!! Grose!

May all your good dreams, and fine wishes come true!-Mike Jittlov (The Wizard of Speed and Time)

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[–] TS2Master 20 years ago

Just watched Brainstorm and I thought it was great. The "Hell" scene was quite short in comparison to EH's. I didnt think they were shocking at all, and definitely not images of being born.... wellthere were no dying people in my mother's womb, but anyway.

Great film, and it was definitely better than I was expecting.

The hell stuff was in my version, and I thoguht the bit at the end of the space bit was great with the angel like figures....

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[–] neroon-1 20 years ago

Just a thought...Is it always necessary for a movie like this to show that afterlife is the same what christians believe in? Of course I understand that if you make a movie for audiences in the western world you have to appeal to them and their religious beliefs. But still, would it insult that much to try something else?

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] Janebo 20 years ago

---actually, our brains work with electrical properties--- so who knows what the side effects could be, when they(brains) begin to "short-out", i think all those little "pops" (for lack of a better word) just might be the cuplrits for the "seeing of the Bright Light" that seems to be attempted to be explained away in a religious fashion. and on a smaller scale we all know that appliance electrical cords are known to hold electrical current, even after you unplug them. maybe our brains are no different---which would sure explain a lot of crazy things. & maybe your question?

they're always releasing different versions of movies so it's hard to pin them down. blockbuster's policy on which version they will pick for distribution in their stores, just happens to be the "watered down" versions . my boyfriend & i walked into a blockbuster outlet in toronto 1 day about 8 years ago(after spending a bunch of $$ there already) & off to the side was one of those signs that stand in metal frames for advertising & whatnot, & there it was! their bogus policy---haven't been back there since. i'm an adult & if i want to watch a movie i don't need to be double-censored, thank you very much.
so, depending where you watched it, you could've seen any of how ever many releases they put out, but i have seen the footage you were talking about as well...

Interesting note; somebody mentioned "event horizon", in that film they had to cut about 20 minutes of nasty BeFore they even got an "r" rating---i'm no expert but that 29 min. would seem like a long time when you're talking cut&paste film...but it was good, too. i hear the book (event horizon) is excellent, but i can't find it yet to say either way...

but i digress---

the higher...the fewer

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] verb80 19 years ago

How for certain are you that this movie was a fantasy, and that it wasn't extermely accurate? Certainly you don't know the answers, unless you have developed your own brainstorm device and have not shared it with the rest of us.

Honestly, Believe what you want but don't tell someone there isn't a soul when you have no idea what there is, and isn't.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] verb80 19 years ago

How for certain are you that this movie was a fantasy, and that it wasn't extermely accurate? Certainly you don't know the answers, unless you have developed your own brainstorm device and have not shared it with the rest of us.

Honestly, Believe what you want but don't tell someone there isn't a soul when you have no idea what there is, and isn't.

"" by - you How for certain are you that this movie was a fantasy, and that it wasn't extermely accurate? Certainly you don't know the answers, unless you have developed your own brainstorm device and have not shared it with the rest of us.

Honestly, Believe what you want but don't tell someone there isn't a soul when you have no idea what there is, and isn't. ""

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[–] verb80 19 years ago

I believe what teh director was trying to say with this, is that "EARHT" itself is HELL. The soul was leaving earth and going to heaven, which we see in outer-space. I believe its a great view, obviously everyone has there own. But to say she was a fortunate soul out of the many I don't believe is the point, and certainly don't feel that only a few fortunate soul's goto heaven, I believe it's very safe to say she sinned herself, and had flaws just like all of us. Heaven isn't for just a few limited people who don't eat meat and only drink water, its there for everyone who wants it and believes in living a general good lifestyle.

"There was a scene ,when this film was screened on tv once,where the scientist is replaying the death of that lady who died of a heart attack and you get to see her plunge downward untile you see what looks to be Hell.Let's just say it wasn't a pretty sight.It was revolting in fact but I wanted to see it again so I rented it on video.It had been edited out so I assume it must have been deemed as too upsetting by the distributor.I can understand that!It was really sickly in the extreme.I can only recall mutilated moaning people writhing among each other and obviously suffering in torment.you only see this very briefly but it was effective.Then you, the viewer rise out of here and head into outer space.It was like she had to view hell before she could get to Heaven.Maybe this was to emphasise to this woman's spirit that she was one of the fortunate ones who gets to go to Heaven.
I can't see how the computer can record this if the body of the woman is dead though.This is her soul seeing this and souls are unrecordable."

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[–] slip_away 19 years ago

I think the director was just trying to show you this glimpse into another world... It's the one thing that people have always wondered, what happens after death! People have made so many myths, so many legends to explain what happens when you die (like heaven/hell, reincarnation, etc.) I think that it was suppossed to be just this incredible experience, that could still not be explained. I don't think he was following any christian/ heaven verses hell theory.

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