Let's face it. Ridley Scott is not a good director, as a matter of fact, he's a bit of a charlatan and he has the filmography to prove it. Fanboys often rant about his cinematography but the truth of the matter is that, his cinematography has always followed the trends no matter how bad they are. Blade Runner's cinematography is magnificent but he destroyed it by adding teal and orange for the disastrous Final Cut so he can't even appreciate what little good there is in his work, he doesn't have The Eye. His other two triumphs could have been done by any other director, Thelma and Louise and Gladiator, who was basically plagiarized from The Fall Of The Roman Empire.
Now Blade Runner is truly incredible because it's actually A NEW WORLD, an innovation, a new vision, something that hasn't been seen in film since 1963's Cleopatra. But I don't see Scott anywhere in it. In fact, he's responsible for its only glaring flaws, the horrific dove flying away shot and the horrific reuse of The Shining leftover footage.
So who can we credit for it? We've got Vangelis' genius score. Does anyone know if the editor worked alone? I guess he is the owner of it then.
Blade Runner is a result of several strong ideas and aesthetics coming together... Larger than the sum of their parts... From the Philip K Dick's interesting source material and Hampton Fancher's script to the Vangelis score, but all filtered through Ridley Scott's attention to the aesthetic, his appreciation for these ideas and his commercial cinematic sensibility...
We can't ignore the positives of Ridley's infuence, just because we don't like some of his flaws... These flaws are a result if him reaching beyond his grasp... A less ambitious director wouldn't make those mistakes, but would not achieve such greatness in other parts of the film...
He has several other high quality movies... Including the iconic Alien, which it is popular for fanboys to try to discount his work there as well... So that's 4 aclaimed movies that are flukes? It doesn't add up.
Yet Scott, keeps making interesting movies, as well as scores of less iconic, but highly entertaining and aesthetically interesting movies. He's a working, commercial director, but one who has his own aesthetic and artistic sensibility... He makes movies that are made to be seen by audiences, not just critics and yet he does it in a manner that elevates these films visually and (lately) philosophically... This is very rare these days.
Another great thing about Blade Runner is that it is shot and edited in the Golden Age Hollywood style, which is the best and most effective style to shoot a movie because it is seamless and its main purpose is for the audience to forget there is a camera or a crew or even a director. And it works. In other words, no abrupt cuts, no annoying closeups of mundane inconsequential tasks that aim to remind you that an auteur is directing. This again, cannot be credited to Scott for he introduces these unnecessary shots in the disastrous Final Cut, and his entire filmography is just the current, clumsy editing and shooting style that destroys suspension of disbelief.
I think you're on to something in that Blade Runner is very much a neo-noir movie, so perhaps that has something to do with it, as the filmmakers get influenced by the classic noir movies and thus inject some of those elements of filmmaking into a 1980s futuristic cyberpunk movie...
I know and I agree but when you are influenced by an earlier style, you could end up borrowing a lot of other elements that were common then, such as the old school editing... it can be subconcious, concious or part of the style...
For example, you might want to have a character step out of the darkness into the light to speak and then turn away an become a silhoette again as you're going for a noir look, but that also ends up in your shot being longer, continuous like a a regular classic movie shot and it also allows the audience to step into the frame and be with the character... So you inadvertantly, or integrally end up using an older style instead of shaking the camera or cutting to an insert of someone's iphone... 👍
I don't know, the things that make a noir film noir are not just editing because the editing in noir films was the same editing style of other golden age hollywood films. Now Blade Runner has some unnecessary modern closeups like faces at the club and stuff but overall it doesn't destroy the narrative nor does it reminds you there is a camera. Unlike all film today-.
Yeah... Blade Runner holds the frame longer and wider than most movies today...
I think close ups are overused today and feel a lot like TV, especially whan you have a series of over the shoulder shots of two faces just talking to one another for the majority of most movies these days...
The big problem is artsy closeups of mundane tasks of no relevance, or the wide shot of an onlooker far away witnessing some action. They scream: "I'M THE DIRECTOR, I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THIS". Tarantino only exists for these kind of shots.
" the Golden Age Hollywood style, which is the best and most effective style to shoot a movie because it is seamless and its main purpose is for the audience to forget there is a camera or a crew or even a director."
Sorry but for me that is a given. That is the minimum I expect from a movie. If you are watching the movie and weighing up the actors / set dressors performance , you are not "watching" the movie.
Lucky for me I have a blindness to bad acting and a willingness to suspend disbelief.
Suspension of disbelief is what im getting at here, and BR does that.
Also, “The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” by Gibbon is considered to be the single most exhaustive history of that time period ever written. Why wouldn’t someone who’s making a film about ancient Rome use it as a source? It would be foolish not to.
I'm actually talking about the film The Fall Of The Roman Empire. There's a thing called film? It existed before Ridley Scott, you should check it out.
I realize that you’ve made it your job to be the most unlikeable person on these boards, but still...I’d like to thank you for informing me that there is in fact a thing called film.
And just a head’s up...you do realize that the screenplay for “The Fall of the Roman Empire” was based on Gibbon’s text, yes? There’s a thing called books. They existed before film, you should check them out.
It’s obvious that you crave the respect of people on these boards, but until you’re man enough to admit when you’re wrong, our respect is something you’ll never have.
It seems to bother a lot of people that Scott, as a commercial film director, dares to incorporate history of thought and aesthetics in his movies... It irkes them to no end that he doesn't sit in a ghetto of idealess pop culture like most directors of big movies...
Check out the Prometheus boards to see people groan about his references to Milton's Paradise Lost and such... Even the opening scene of Alien Covenant has three iconic objects of Western art that are symbolic of what is to come later in the movie in terms of themes, but also adds to the characteristion of David and Wayland, while providing context for the power play in the scene between the two... And this is in a space alien slasher movie... 😉
The reason most of his movies look and feel richer than other contemporary filmmakers movies is that he appreciates the context of earlier works, of the body of knowledge of thought and of art that exists separate from movies...
Yeah, he has made some mistakes in movies, either through experimentation or just poor decisions and has made his share of poor movies, but we can't ignore what is very clearly his stamp on these great iconic movies, nor can we ignore his artistic and commercial talents either...
Stop what? Do you not think that Scott tries to incorporate influences from other art and literature into his movies?
We can discuss to what extent this is successful or whether or not it works (it fails sometimes), but it's pretty clear that that is what he is doing...
and what would be great about that? in other words, if the movie is an absolute and complete failure on all levels like Prometheus is, who cares if he has included some boring and predictable Renaissance reference?
Well, I think it is worth discussing because that this is one of the things that Ridley does well and that it works even in a movie like Prometheus that has split opinions so much... We are after all discussing Ridley's influence as a filmmaker on his projects...
I think it's not just a matter of literal references in dialogue or using art objects within the movie as props, but more importantly it helps us understand that Ridley is art literate, which is why most of his movies look so interesting, compared to contemporary filmmakers, and also seem connected to our understanding of art and of the world...
That has to figure into the way Blade Runner looks and feels...
The criticism I have of Scott is that too often his portrayal of these ideas is detached and removed from the human and dramatic nature that brought them about... So some people feel that this takes them out of the movie, as it becomes overt...
Don’t bother engaging with this guy. I’ve seen LetThemEatCake on other boards, and all he wants to do is argue in the least constructive way possible. He’s not worth wasting your time on.
What kind of a reply is this? Who says I'm a fanboy of Scott? I somewhat agree that his only really great movies are Alien and Blade Runner, but the Duellists is a really impressive movie. Would appreciate if you'd actually respond to that with a proper argument instead of polemic banter.
Thats a really good question. Scott doesnt understood at any point in time how important the fact is, tht Deckard is a human. He was even stupid enough to put hints into the Directors Cut that Deckard isnt a human (thats why the Directors Cut is just a piece of trash). But its not fair to attack Scott about this, cause he was a tv commercial director (Apples 1984 was done by him).
But still ..... like you mentioned ..... this is an epic masterpiece which still shines after many, many decades. My theory is that this was some of the rare occurencies when studio executives did some awesome job for the movie itslef. Scott didnt understood the postmodern character of the Philip K. Dick novel and thats why the studio executives "forced" him to include the voiceover (which is so important as an ingetrated part of the postmodern setting) and removed every dumb hint that Deckard isnt human (cause otherwise the complete novel wouldnt work at all anymore. But Scott didnt got this point even today). They also did something questionable by putting a Happy end to the movie ..... but then again ..... who cares :) .
The theatrical cut of Blade Runner was one of the best movies of the 80s (which was beside the 20s, 50s and 60s the best decade for movies in the last century and still is the best movie decade since then). This is a movie which creates a complete new world and give us an amazing story about life and death and love (Avatar built also a complete new world, but forget about the second half ;) ).
Care to explain why? Oh sorry, I forgot, you're LetThemEatCock, you only throw allegations and straw man arguments into the room and then GTFO.
The 70s where the most exiting period in Cinema history. Unbridled from the Hays Code and a general breaking of taboos, combined with a drifting away from stilted dialogue and theatrical acting the 70s produced some of the best and most groundbreaking films in history.
The 1970s had some amazing movies (Jaws for example - which I see as a way better movie then the "yet another mafia movie" The Godfather). But exactly the fact that the Hays code was instantly gone also build up some problems. For example Hitchcock was so much better when he hided his moments of violence behind symbolism. For example Frenzy was of his worst movies and this was one of the movies without any Hays code to react to at all.
And lets not forget that the 1970s also brought Close encounters of the third kind and Star Wars (so there were also some real good popcorn movies there). But IMHO (beside the beginning of the blockbuster movies during the 1970s) everything that was done during the 1970s was done way better during the 1960s. Thats why I didnt mention it. And the 50s were just mentioned by me cause of thos amazing golden era scifi and horror movies. And indeed cause of some real, real good novel movies (which were almost as offensive as many 70s movies, but with way better symbolism).
and im glad, that noone critized my verdict on the 20s. that was one of the best decades ion movie history every. But thats not much of a surprise, cause it was the first "real" decade of movie making. And that era is the real golden one, cause only then you could do almost anything (which is later limited by financial or hierchical problems).
That is the fanboy mantra but it is not the case. They Hays Code gave way to endless creativity to convey mystery, seduction, and even sex, the ART of the period in film is unparalleled, costume design, music, lighting, everything, the acting was far from theatrical or stilted dialogue, it was as cinematic as they come, they can still take the breath away and unlike the 70's films, have yet to be surpassed or superseded in any way.
First GTFO with you Fanboy argument, doesn't fly with me, ok?
The Hays Code restricted creativity and pretty much reduced Main Stream Cinema to cookie cutter stories, because you couldn't let the bad guy get away in the end, you couldn't even insinuate anything sexuall, you couldn't depict violence realistically etc.
Costume design, music, lighting was a product of it's time, but I don't see how it was superior to 70s films. Especially cinematography took a huge leap in the 70s.
The acting was very stilted because that was normal in movies back then. It was pretty much an excension of theatre and wasn't very natural or realistic. Of course there were great actors back then, like Brando, but on the whole acting took a major leap in the late 60 with Strassberg, method acting and so on.
Bullshit. Directors and artists were still able to show the most depraved and dark instincts in their films, inspite of the Hays Code and did it in an incredibly artistic and elaborate way, you can go and see a film called Suddenly, Last Summer as an example, a film I am sure you don't even know EXISTS.
Cinematography took leaps backwards and atrophied during the 70's, beauty was gone, glamour was gone, detail was gone, everything became grainy, desaturated and badly lit, and this dominated everything until 2000. Please leave the thread, you are clearly an ignorant fanboy.
They were able, but they where penalised for it. Of course there where some obscure movies that didn't adhere to the Code, but cinemas wouldn't show it, they were shunned by Hollywood and the press and so on.
Even Hitchcock, who had a lot of clout in Hollywood got in trouble for something as benign as showing a toilet in Psycho.
Do you mean "The Last Summer" from 1954? It is a German film, not Hollywood and there is nothing truly daring and shocking in it. And Suddenly?s Sorry, care to explain what was exactly so daring and depraved in that?
Cinematography did not take a leap backwards you moron. Just because you like films from that area doesn't make your opinion a fact. You're telling me that Apocalypse now, The Godfather, The French Connection, Raging Bull, The Shining (both released 1980, but filmed in the 70s and pretty much a product of that time), Don't look now, The Devils, The Exorcist, A Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, Jaws, Alien don't have incredible cinematography? Nothing in the 50s looked remotely impressive as those movies.
They were not penalized, the scenes would be rewritten or cut. Even SILENT FILM looks more impressive than Jaws, Godfather, Barry Lyndon and all that crap.
I was going to correct you on your Last Summer mistake but the truth of the matter is that YOU DON'T DESERVE TO DISCOVER THE GREATNESS OF GOLDEN AGE HOLLYWOOD, so just stay on your lane.
You're the most douchy contrarian in this forum, nobody takes you serious, especially when you count the cinematography of Barry Lyndon, which is lauded by everyone with even a modicum of knowledge about film as crap, LOL.
It was not a mistake, because The last Summer is a German film, which apparently you don't know. So stay douchy, pretentious and stupid.
Just because it wasn't the film you ment doesn't make it a mistake.
As for the rest of your ramblings, zero fucks are given. You demonstrated more than once, that you're not only a moron, that knows at much about the art of film as a bull about ice skating, but you're also an incredible obnoxious and unpleasent doofus.
But don't you know, it was my mistake. Because when I say, "you know that movie about the Mafia?" and you say "The Godfather?" it was your mistake, because I ment Goodfellas.
lol what an imbecile, I did not say something generic as "the mafia", I said a film title which you didn't recognize because you do not know shit about film.
Bullshit. Directors and artists were still able to show the most depraved and dark instincts in their films, inspite of the Hays Code and did it in an incredibly artistic and elaborate way, you can go and see a film called Suddenly, Last Summer as an example, a film I am sure you don't even know EXISTS.
Bolded the part that mentions the film specifically, not just the broad genre. BUT SHIT, what do I know? Just don't mind me, eating my popcorn, watching the internet fight over...stuff. 😜
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The 1950s was amazing cause of its amazing popcorn cinema. Beside the 1980s there never was a decade wth better popcorn movies then the 1950s. But from an intellectual point of view the 1950s had also some good movies, but there were indeed better decades (like the 1960s for example).
I don't agree that the 80's are the best movie decade. I don't think there is such a thing. Best movie period? Yes, and that is Golden Age Hollywood, I'm sorry. I also like the unicorn, but not what it implies later on. I think the Director's Cut works, mainly because it is not a director cut, in other words, Scott had no part in it.
The unicorn was Scotts stupid idea, cause he didnt even got the main message of the movie. Thats how clueless about this movie he was. But im not the one which attacks him completely. Without Scott this world wouldnt have been as overhelming as it was. His history as an tv commercial director shows perfectly at all the interior and outer settings! IT was amazing what he did from the visual point of view. But most of the other parts of the novel .... he often dont get at all.
He's not a writer, so like most directors his filmography can be a bit hit and miss sometimes, depending on the subject matter.
But he's hardly a charlatan, the guy made hundreds of commercials before his first film.
His Chanel No 5 commercial is not the masterpiece everyone speaks of. It seems to me his ouvre as commercial director is pathetically inflated by his fanboys. The Apple commercial was of course derivative of the 1984 movie, so. The more his filmography is subjected to scrutiny the more it crumbles.