MovieChat Forums > Halloween II (1981) Discussion > It's interesting that a lot of the critc...

It's interesting that a lot of the critcisms of this movie are the fault of John Carpenter.


Critics of this movie single out a few main issues;
1. The hospital setting. It doesn't make sense that it's empty and it's a boring location.
2. The movie relied on gory kills instead of suspense.
3. The sibling reveal.

Carpenter produced the movie, wrote the story, composed the score, was involved in post production and even did some directing via reshoots for this movie. He said the original finished product wasn't scary, so he reshot some of the kill scenes with more gore.

So all story elements (hospital setting, sibling reveal) can be blamed on him and Debra Hill. The gore complaints are all on Carpenter.

Yet people do not wonder if maybe Capenter was a 'one hit wonder' (at least in the slasher arena), or if he got 'lucky' with the original. The original in truth is a very minimalist movie. People like it because they like the music, think it's spooky and because it made an impact (thus people feel compelled to respect it).

I think people give him a pass because he admits he didn't have a fucking clue what he was doing, wasn't fully committed and the fact he has talked trash about this movie before (an abomination and horrible movie, in his opinion) and threw the director under the bus by saying he "didn't have a feel for the material". It is interesting he readily speaks so poorly of it when he and many of his friends and collaborators worked on it.



I guess what I'm wondering here is would this movie have been any better had Carpenter directed it in it's entirity? I don't think so. It's his story, has his score, Cundey's photography and a lot of the criticisms were his ideas so would have been present in his version. Some would say he would have directed the actors better or made it more suspensful, that's possible I guess but I don't think that'd be enough to make this movie much better.

Though I do think if it had his name attached as the director that his fanboys would go easier on it out of respect for him and he himself wouldn't so readily trash the movie.

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I personally think this improved upon the original in a few ways, though it does have a few issues of it's own. They're pretty close in quality and honestly this is way better than a lot of Carpenter's later work.



It is always a bit funny when you see a director trash a movie when they've made many worse movies themselves. I recall Jeff Lieberman (Just Before Dawn, Squrim) talking about how awful he found Night of the Living Dead. I love Just Before Dawn but Squirm is okay at best and Night of the Living Dead pisses all over it.

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I've heard the sister criticism for years but i always thought it worked well. Other wise Michael weirdly obsessing over one specific victim and going out of his way to kill her makes no sense. They needed the sister angle to keep her relevant to the story. When the new movies erased the sister angle they had to shoehorn her into the story by having Michael's new Doctor conveniently bring him to her doorstep.

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I feel like most people readily accepted (and had no issues with) the sister angle back when I first started discussing these movies online in the mid-2000s. Albeit it could have just been the small group I conversed with. I'm young enough that I wasn't alive when this movie was in theatres so I can't remark on the sibling twist reception circa 1981. I do feel like it seems a bit more of a modern criticism, especially post Halloween (2018) which decided to retcon it.

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By retconning it though they had to start creating more elaborate ways to keep Laurie relevant. In Halloween kills Laurie waits at the hospital for Michael to come for her which he never does, Because without the sister connection shes just another random victim, and only attacks Lauries daughter and granddaughter after they put themselves in his path. And in Halloween kills Michael finds Laurie through Corie who is very conveniently dating her granddaughter. Without the sister angle Lauries character is kept relevant through conveniences and coincidences.

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Nice to see someone else who rates this movie highly. It gets too much hate and some Carpenter fanboys act like the original is high art and that it's the best because it was directed by him and none of the others come close because they miss his 'magic touch' (even though he had his hands all over this one!).

As for Carpenter being jealous of this... who knows. I do think many directors get a bit pissy when someone makes a solid sequel or remake to their work. I've seen other directors give out backhanded compliments or side step questions when asked their thoughts of sequels/remakes to their work.

It's interesting you claim this was a fan favorite when you were younger and that some you know prefered this over the original. It reminds me a bit of Robert Englund remarking on how A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors was the fan favorite. Still to this day it's regarded as the best of the sequels but it defers to the original in online movie discourse. That's a pet peeve of mine, the obligation some movie fans have for worshipping 'the original' and feeling like it's a crime to say a sequel/remake is better.



Yeah Carpenter praising Halloween Kills whilst trashing this boggles my mind.

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My favourite Halloween film has changed over the years. The Return of Michael Myers was my favourite for a long time, simply because it was the first one I saw as a kid. Years later, Halloween 6: The Producer's Cut became my favourite after I picked up a VHS copy from The Myers Museum (Orange Grove Video) website. Anyone remember that place?

https://web.archive.org/web/20020614145341/http://www.magicmasi.com:80/myersmuseum/ogv/lobby.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20021001091620/www.magicmasi.com/myersmuseum/lobbyinside.html

My favourite these days is a toss-up between the original Halloween II and Rob Zombie's divisive Halloween II. I watch both of those at least once a year.

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I love Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers too. I think I had a stint in my teens where it was my favorite of the franchise. These days I'd say the first 3 Myers movies (1, 2 & 4) are pretty interchangeable as my favorite, whilst I've also grew to love Halloween III.


I haven't watched Rob Zombie's Halloween II since it came out in 2009. I recall not liking it but you are not alone in your love for it, I've considered giving it a second chance.

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Rob Zombie's Halloween II is worth revisiting, in my opinion. I felt the same way as you did after my first viewing. I wouldn't go as far as to call it a misunderstood masterpiece like some people do, but it's definitely interesting.

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Carpenter didn’t even want to make this film.

The original plan for the franchise was to be a different story every time. Myers was only going to be in the first.

But he was forced to bring Myers back by the producers after the first one was a big hit.

Then he killed off Myers and Loomis so they couldn’t be brought back again.

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Carpenter didn't write that the Hospital should appear virtually deserted. That's the director's job to make it credible. (But ultimately it's the producer's job to ensure that the director takes care of that, so ultimately it's at his and Debra's door.) IT could have been a part of the script that there was a reason for Laurie appearing to be the only patient. They might have moved her to a quieter wing of the hospital, away from reporters and rubberneckers. To be honest the emptiness of the hospital never bothered me except for the fact that a maternity ward with all those babies would only be found in a large, quite busy hospital.

They wound up relying on gore because none of the director's stuff was scary enough. The added scene of the girl in her house on the phone who heard Mrs Elrod screaming is the only well directed kill in the film. It only has a brief blood spurt. And Carpenter shot it.

The sibling reveal is a desperate attempt by the writer to convince himself there is a story worth telling when he knew he didn't actually have one. I guess Carpenter felt it didn't violate his original concept if Michael's first victim and his intended, perhaps final victim in this movie would each be his sister. Just for symmetry. Rather than to provide motivation or justification which he had not intended with the first movie.

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