MovieChat Forums > Caddyshack (1980) Discussion > Summer 1980: When Comedy was the MCU

Summer 1980: When Comedy was the MCU

posted 5 months ago by roger1 (3626)
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The biggest hit movie in the summer of 1980, and of the year, was The Empire Strikes Back. The "Spielberg-Lucas" decade began with Lucas leading off. The next summer, 1981, Lucas and Spielberg together (as producer and director respectively) would take the summer and the year with Raiders of the Lost Ark. The next summer, 1982, the hit of the summer and the year -- and all time for a long while -- was Spielberg's: ET. The next summer, 1983, Lucas came back with his third -- and supposedly final -- Star Wars capper, Return of the Jedi. The next summer, 1984 Lucas and Spielberg together had Indiana Jones ready to go: Indiana Jones(name in the title now) and the Temple of Doom. But they didn't get the hit of the summer and the year. What beat it was interesting.

Yes, the 80s were the Lucas/Spielberg decade overall, but as it turned out , they were stronger in the FIRST HALF of the 80s. Lucas second half of the decade saw Howard the Duck, Willow and Lucas pretty much dropping out in the main for years to come. Spielberg's second half of the decade saw him trying to "go serious" with The Color Purple and Empire of the Sun, and rather crapping out with "Always" a remake of "A Guy Named Joe." In 1989, at the end of the decade, Lucas and Spielberg would join again to bring us Indiana Jones "one last time"(ha) in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. They didn't get the hit of the summer and the fall that time -- Batman took the honors.

..but back up to that summer of 1980.

Lucas had The Empire Strikes Back. Spielberg offered us nothing as a DIRECTOR, but he had a surprise in store.

And that surprise was part of the "comedy dominatiion of summer 1980" -- a pretty impressive takeover of the box office ASIDE from The Empire Strikes Back (and the other notable big one of summer 1980 -- Kubrick's The Shining.)

Comedy was King in the summer of 1980. You could say that "SNL was the MCU" that summer, but that would be wrong -- there were two SNL driven hits, and two non-SNL driven hits, and as a cumulatve matter, they ruled the summer and our catch-phrase ridden talk, and American culture.

Here are the four:

The two from Saturday Night Live:

The Blues Brothers. As I post this, Saturday Night Live is about to enter its 50th year after having given us scores(hundreds?) of comedy players over those decades. A comparatively small percentage of those players became bona fide bankable movie stars. Another group of them became "network TV comedy series stars." Others became supporting players in movies. And others went nowhere.

But in 1980, "the first class of SNL" (from its first season of 1975-1976, with one big one from 1976-77) had four bona fide male movie stars and all four of them ended up in two movies that summer.

The Blues Brothers paired John Belushi and Dan Ackroyd in a full movie based on a recurring SNL "musical sketch" in which Belushi and Ackroyd --in black suits and ties and porkpie hats -- took a legitimate swing at singing blues hits. The sketch "took" and the next thing you know(it took about four years), Belushi and Ackroyd(as a comedy team they never took alphabetical order -- Belushi was the bigger movie star thanks to Animal House) as Jake and Elwood Blues had (1) a hit music album all over 1979 radio; (2) a 1980 US concert tour and (3) a movie.

"The Blues Brothers movie" did double duty as a comedy vehicle: it brought The Blues Brothers to the big screen and it was the follow of director John Landis to HIS influential (and very funny) big hit of 1978: National Lampoon's Animal House.

And therein lie a tale. Landis had been held to a tight budget and a tight schedule on Animal House, but when it hit big, he was given carte blanche on The Blues Brothers and you could tell: it went over budget and over schedule as Landis staged a sprawling movie with wall to wall car chases and a large number of big musical numbers(featuring black soul artists in a nod to counterbalancing white Jake and Elwood.)

I don't much think that The Blues Brothers was a good a movie as Animal House. The reason was the script. Animal House had been finely honed by National Lampoon writers Doug Kenney and Chris Miller(from their college experiences) with a third very funny writer: Harold Ramis. The Blues Brothers was, in the main, a Dan Ackroyd script from his rather simple plot idea -- just less "full a meal." Director John Landis got a co-writing credit, but seemed a better director(the comedy timing of Animal House was his and his alone) than writer.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

No matter. The Blues Brothers rather overpowered its way to success -- the crashes, the musical numbers, John Candy's small role("Orange whip? Orange whip?") A certain amount of comedy from Belushi and Ackroyd(though Belushi, having to carry more dialogue and character than in Animal House, proved not quite up to the job). And a great catch phrase: "We're on a mission from God." Steven Spielberg showed up at the end in a cameo as a Chicago city records clerk. Was this Spielberg's big contribution to summer 1980? No, there was a bigger one. Anon.

Caddyshack: The SECOND big summer comedy hit with an SNL connection. But there was a twist. Whereas Belushi and Ackroyd were true friends and a comedy team -- the two SNL vets in THIS one -- Chevy Chase and Bill Murray -- actively hated each other and had had a fistfight backstage at SNL in 1978 when Chevy Chase (who quit the show early in the second season that Bill Murray started) came back to host the show and got in an argument with Murray(who was evidently put up to it by -- Belushi.) Reportedly, Murray yelled at Chase: "Medium talent!" and Chase reflected on the pockmarks in Murray's face, and Murray said somthing about Chase's wife. BOOM.

Bill Murray and Chevy Chase share one scene in Caddyshack -- and they are quite funny and improvisational in it -- but it evidently took money and Henry Kissinger level negotiations to get them to do it.

The rest of the time, Chase and Murray are in separate movies WITHIN Caddyshack and being quite funny in them.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

Chase became a star out of SNL first, but rather frittered his stardom away in too many bad movies. Murray who started his time on SNL as "the less handsome guy who tried to take Chevy Chase's place" -- would stun everybody by moving into the lead as the "Biggest SNL star" with these in a row: Meatballs, Caddyshack, Stripes, Tootsie and the Big One: Ghostbusters. During that same time, Belushi died from drugs(in 1982) and Chase struggled. One hit for Chase during this period -- National Lampoon's Vacation. A few too many flops. Chase struggled to another hit in 1985 -- Fletch, but then needed the Vacation series to stay afloat. One of them -- Christmas Vacation in 1989 -- has proved his most famous movie now, a perennial Christmas TV favorite.

Chase and Murray play to their strengths in Caddyshack. Chase is indeed handsome and suave, but also on a weird wavelength of his own, unwilling to really connect with the other actors or even to say his lines right half the time; it works for him. Murray here played purposely a lot more stupid than his later "hippest guy in the room" characters(Stripes, Ghostbusters) but came up with that brilliant and erudite speech about caddying for the Dali Lama ("He said that on my death bed, I will received total consciousness. So I got that going for me - which is nice.")

Murray also gets to duel with the robot comedy gopher. Producer Jon Peters -- Barbra Streisand's boyfriend -- wanted more of that gopher. He's funny indeed. But writer Doug Kenney -- who co-wrote Animal House -- was despressed by such slapstick kid-friendly additions to his hip script(co-written with Caddyshack director Harold Ramis -- who ALSO co-wrote Animal House with Kenney.)

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

In the "what's funnier? Animal House or Caddyshack?" debate, I'm team Animal House. Caddyshack has a bit too much "plot with the young caddies" and diverts away from the main comedy talent too often. Ted Knight is a much more sitcommish overdone villain than dead serious John Vernon as Dean Wormer in Animal House.

And then there is Rodney Dangerfield, who is in yet HIS separate comedy movie from younger guys Chase and Murray. Though there was this -- middle-aged, overweight, google-eyed Dangerfield might have been but he was EQUALLY hip and loved by young people as Chase and Murray. This movie is his comedy movie classic performance(giving him full leads in Easy Money and Back to School and other movies rather diluted his talent.)

Caddyshack probably came out of the Summer 1980 comedy mash-up with the most memorable lines, catchphrases ("Cinderella Boy! Its in the HOLE") and summer memories(that green golf course, those Florida coastal waters!) but it will always feel like a little too much of the screen time is taken away from the comedy guys we paid to see. It got a summer radio song hit, though: "I'm Alright" by Kenny Loggins. Lives on to this day.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

The two "Non-SNL" hits of the summer of 1980:

Airplane. Truly a sleeper hit. Nobody saw THIS coming, but it kept building an audience, week after week. Paramount made sure to put out a weekly Friday print ad in the Los Angeles Times and other papers to remind everybody that Airplane was STILL playing, STILL funny, STILL a big hit -- and more people came. And some people came back. The logo -- a cartoon plane twisted into a pretzel -- became the symbol OF the movie. It had no major comedy stars.

But it MADE comedy stars out of non-comedy stars: old-time straight laced macho TV actors(in the main) like Lloyd Bridges, Robert Stack, Peter Graves...and Leslie Nielsen. Of those four, Nielsen became a FULL FLEDGED comedy star for the rest of his career(less one serious turn as the date rapist killed by Barbra Streisand in 1987's Nuts, a rather unfortunate casting mistake, people laughed.)

The writer directors of Airplane --David Zucker, Jim Abrahams, Jerry Zucker -- also known as "ZAZ" and composed of two brothers and another guy -- had been around awhile(Kentucky Fried Movie) but here declared their OWN, very NON-SNL comedy style. It was ten gags per minute, jokes in the corner of the frame, "MAD magazine on the big screen" stuff, with some verbal catcphrases that "took":

"Surely, you must be joking."
"I'm not joking...and don't call me Shirley."

Nielsen: This woman has to be gotten to a hospital.
Stewardess: A hospital? What is it?
Nielsen: Its a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.

And you've got Peter Graves as the pilot, asking the young boy visiting his cockpit(at well paced intervals) questions like:

Joey..do you like gladiator movies?
Joey...you ever see a grown man naked?
Joey..have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

"Airplane" got to make fun of the Airport movies in particular(particularly the one with the singing nun and the girl needing the kidney transplant), and the disaster movie trend(about dead by 1980) in general, and one particular air disaster movie -- Zero Hour -- in VERY particular (they lifted the plot about the food poisoning and recruiting the amateur pilot.)

What's funny about "Airplane" is that -- compared to the SNL comedies and the one more that I'm going to reach -- it was in some ways the most SILLY of them, the one most aimed at kids as well as adults. And yet, a lot of the comedy was a sophisticated as anything. At the same time, some of the jokes just bombed and I didn't have much use for the extended flashback sequence with "leads" Robert Hays and Julie Hagerty(a short-lived comedy darling, all fraility and innocence mixed with some savvy.)

The ZAZ team immediately put Leslie Nielsen in their ABC comedy series "Police Squad" -- it got great reviews and was cancelled after six episodes. Came 1988, they made a "Police Squad" movie -- just as funny as "Airplane" and in the same way, and Nielsen was fully launched with that movie series and some other comedies making the most of his deadpan stupidity.

Meanwhile, the OTHER stalwart TV guys had to satisfy themselves with being in a new classic -- Lloyd Bridges("I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue") Robert Stack ("Triple A bonds...the best investment you can make.") Peter Graves (who felt his lines were going to end his career.)

And let's not forget "Barbara June Cleaver Billingsley" talkin' jive with two cool black cats on the plane. It wasn't JUST all MALE stars of the straight-laced past.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

Finally:

Used Cars. "Used Cars" was the TRUE sleeper comedy of the summer of 1980, much more asleep than Airplane. Which is to say: very few people saw it. The lore is that it got the highest preview cards ever for a Columbia Pictures comedy and then the studio just sort of rushed it out with bad print ads and no fanfare and it was slaughtered by both the big-name SNL competition AND the surprise hit Airplane.

The cast was an issue. The lead was Kurt Russell, a former child AND teen AND young adult star for Disney, who had just played Elvis on TV very well. But he wasn't known for comedy. This movie would prove he could do it, GREAT.

Russell had no SNL support in Used Cars. His sidekicks were the sort-of funny Garrett Graham and the VERY funny Frank MacRae, and audiences simply had to discover those guys (MacRae had been with Belushi and Ackroyd in 1941 a few months earlier...but that was Spielberg's first flop.)

"Lenny and Squiggy" (David L Lander and Michael McKean) from Laverne and Shirley took different character names and roles in Used Cars and were very funny with what they got to do as "electronic TV wizards" who set up some ribald pranks for our used car salesmen to pull. Joe Flahterty from Second City TV at least brought THAT show to the movie(seeing as SNL didn't participate.) And skilled veteran Jack Warden showed his versatility by playing twin brothers -- one pale and frail with a heart condition, the other hearty and capable of beating up men half his age. The frail one is good, the tough one is bad, and the bad one has the good one murdered and Kurt Russell's team takes sweet revenge.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

What remains odd about "Used Cars" -- flop though it was -- is that it turned out to have MAJOR talent behind the camera -- pals Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gale("The Two Bobs") as writers, Zemeckis himself as director -- and Steven Spielberg as producer(THERE is Spielberg in the summer of 1980). Spielberg's credit is on screen now, but I think he took it OFF in 1980.

Zemickis would eventually part with Bob Gale, but not before they made Back to the Future for Spielberg and REALLY got big. And then Zemickis went off and did Forrest Gump and got his Best Director Oscar.

But the thing of it is this: likely Spielberg took his name off of "Used Cars" because -- compared to Back to the Future and Forrest Gump -- it is a pretty radical movie..its got sex jokes(with nudity), its got bad taste jokes(the fatal heart attack of Warden's frail good guy is played for LAUGHS...and gets them), its got bad language; its got racial humor...but it was then, and remains now... FUNNY. And mean, in a good way.

I saw Used Cars with low expectations in its week of release and laughed hard. My friends with me laughted hard. The audience laughed hard. A year later, I put together a viewing party when it was on HBO and the ROOM laughed hard.

So I ended up liking Used Cars better than the "bigger guns" of summer comedy around it: The Blues Brothers(too many car crashes, too little good dialogue -- Dan Ackroyd was not a great comedy writer), Caddyshack(too much "plot with kids" getting in the way of the comics), Airplane(a bit too juvenile and silly.)

Liked all four of them, though -- its just that Used Cars was the "adult" surprise of the group.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

What's also interesting about those four 1980 summer comedies is how the seeds were planted for the entire rest of the decade in comedy. Bill Murray would dominate among the SNL vets(until Eddie Murphy came along on the big screen.) Ghostbusters would beat Indiana Jones in the summer of 1984. ZAZ had success with the movie of The Naked Gun(and they had a "sleeper" between Airplane and The Naked Gun, with the spy movie spoof Top Secret with Val Kilmer.) Spielberg would produce Used Cars, Back to the Future , and Who Framed Roger Rabbit for Zemeckis.

And yet...there were two sad losses for two of the success stories of the comedy summer of 1980. John Belushi died in 1982 and one of the first major SNL stars was simply "taken off the table."

And John Landis would join with Steven Spielberg to produce the 1983 anthology movie of "The Twilight Zone. Landis directed a segment. Spielberg directed a segment. Actor Vic Morrow and two Vietnamese children were killed by a helicopter in the filming of the Landis segment. Landis' superstar director career was over.

So..the summer of 1980 stands alone as its own promising and successful comedy summer. Great memories, great movies STILL to watch today.

[–] DarthAckbar (2039) 5 months ago

why not start with 1978, which had both Animal House and the brilliant Foul Play?

[–] DarthAckbar (2039) 5 months ago

even 1979 had Meatballs and The Jerk

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

why not start with 1978, which had both Animal House and the brilliant Foul Play?

even 1979 had Meatballs and The Jerk

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Those are great points, and I would say that THOSE two comedy summers (1978 and 1979) rather CLIMAXED with the comedy summer of 1980. Those two years led to the "big one".

Also I find 1980 to be major because we had the creative forces of SNL, AND National Lampoon AND ZAZ(who broke through with Airplane) AND "The two Bobs" (in an R-rated , raunchy comedy that they would never really attempt again.)

It was interesting about Animal House and Foul Play coming out in the summer of 1978:

SNL started in TV season 1975-1976 and Chevy Chase seemed to be the breakout star. Versus Beliushi and Ackroyd, he was more handsome -- and by doing the news every week ("I'm Chevy Chase...and you're not" Chase was memorized by audiences first.)

So Chase wanted off SNL bad and wanted to be a movie star. He quit SNL early in the second season. Belushi and Ackroyd stayed on the show.

Universal wanted these SNL players for Animal House:

Bluto John Belushi
Otter(the Tim Matheson role) Chevy Chase
D-Day(the Bruce McGill role) Dan Ackroyd

..except Landis did NOT want Chevy Chase for Otter. He wanted an ensemble cast. Landis helped PUSH Chase to take Foul Play, telling him -- "You'd be the STAR of that movie...a romantic leading man working with top female star Goldie Hawn. You know, like Cary Grant." Chase took the bait turned down Animal House, did Foul Play. (SNL guru Lorne Michaels wouldn't release Ackroyd for Animal House...Belushi only.)

In the summer of 1978, Foul Play came out first. A nice little hit for Chevy Chase. But Animal House came out second(August) and...a BLOCKBUSTER. A national trend. John Belushi on the cover of Newsweek. The SECOND star out of SNL(Belushi) looked to be a bigger star than the FIRST(Chase.)

That's showbiz.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

Animal House was such a blockbuster that it clearly drove The Blues Brothers and Caddyshack into production. People who worked on Animal House "split off" into working on The Blues Brothers(John Landis, Belushi) and Caddyshack(Harold Ramis, Doug Kenney.)

And Animal House also probably "set the stage" for Airplane and Used Cars to get greenlights.

[–] DarthAckbar (2039) 5 months ago

great points, thanks for the reply

[–] roger1 (3626) 5 months ago

Thanks for reading. Comedy sure had its day in the 70s and 80s!

[–] DarthAckbar (2039) 5 months ago

for sure

[–] moviechatterer (15583) 4 months ago

When Comedy was the MCU

Good times .
Now the MCU is the MCU 🤢😒😭

[–] davebuffalo (3442) 4 months ago

I don't know what you mean by MCU.

[–] roger1 (3626) 4 months ago

I don't know what you mean by MCU.

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Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Whereas modernly we are flooded with Marvel movies and characters, back THEN(largely because of SNL and the top grosser Animal House) we were flooded with comedies as summer blockbusters, or at least hits:

Animal House.

Meatballs

Caddyshack

The Blues Brothers

Airplane

Used Cars

Stripes

Tootsie

National Lampoon's Vacation

Ghostbusters

[–] aavfreak (3313) 4 months ago

This is a really good post and I enjoyed reading it.

[–] roger1 (3626) 4 months ago

Thank you for reading it!

[–] CalvinJarrett (439) 2 months ago

roger1, I like how you showcase the year 1980 in this series of posts. I happen to agree; it is a very special year. Not only for comedies, although your points in that vein are well-made, but films, in general.

I realize this is extremely subjective, but 1980 for me is the best year in movies because my favorite comedy, drama, and, yes, adult feature all hail from that year.

Caddyshack is my favorite comedy. I happen to love Ted Knight in it. Judge Smales is bar none the best personification of a country club snob ever put to film. Rodney Dangerfield is his perfect foil; he had some fantastic one-liners.

Ordinary People is my favorite drama. Donald Sutherland's performance was the finest Oscar role never to be nominated for the award. I have stewed about this every time I watch this gem of a film (and I think I'm up to 20). Mary Tyler Moore who was nominated for Best Actress, unfortunately, was up against Sissy Spacek playing Loretta Lynn in '80. She wasn't going to win; she should have gone for Best Supporting Actress. Timothy Hutton, who did win the Best Supporting Actor Oscar (though being in almost every scene of the movie), was excellent as Conrad Jarrett. Judd Hirsch was terrific as the psychologist. Even the supporting players like Elizabeth McGovern and Dinah Manoff did marvelous work. In essence, first time director, Robert Redford, culled stellar performances from so many actors and actresses - all of different ages and levels of experience.

Taboo is my favorite adult film, tied only with The Opening Misty Beethoven. I won't delve into this film here because I don't know that moviechat is the right forum, but suffice it to say, it had beautiful shots of San Francisco and Marin County as well as some scorching sex scenes.

All from 1980. And for good measure, you did mention 1980's The Shining in your series. That's got to be my favorite horror movie.

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

roger1, I like how you showcase the year 1980 in this series of posts. I happen to agree; it is a very special year. Not only for comedies, although your points in that vein are well-made, but films, in general.

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Isn't one of the reasons it is great to be "a movie buff"(or a movie fan) that we each have OUR favorite movie year, for OUR special reasons. Some of it is a reflection of our age -- someone did a study that most people find their "favorite movies" in "youth" childhood through teens through twenties. By 30, we start to grow away from being quite so "hormonal" if you will, about the excitement of movies. But I could be wrong. Maybe 1980 was your favorite movie year in your 30s...

There is also -- weirdly enough-- the idea that you don't necessarily have to have been ALIVE in your favorite movie year. Some folks alive today love the movies of...1939. It is specific to ourselves.

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I realize this is extremely subjective, but 1980 for me is the best year in movies because my favorite comedy, drama, and, yes, adult feature all hail from that year.

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Well, that's sure hitting the jackpot for one year. I find the adult feature a true bonus...I can't say I have the knowledge about that sub-species to participate.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

Caddyshack is my favorite comedy. I happen to love Ted Knight in it. Judge Smales is bar none the best personification of a country club snob ever put to film. Rodney Dangerfield is his perfect foil; he had some fantastic one-liners.

---

I wrote above about preferring John Vernon's more serious and baritone Dean Wormer in Caddyshack(all of these comedies had to have an 'establishment villain") but i must admit that Knight's take on a particular kind of villainy(entitled snobbery) was pretty spot on. And -- with apologies to real people with the last name Smales(Smails, actually) -- wasn't that a pretty good name FOR a bad guy? Sounds like a mix of "smell" and "snail."

Smails was mainly pitted against nouveau riche Dangerfield but I rather liked how Chevy Chase snuck in HIS zingers against Smales:

Smails: Dr. Beeper has been the club champion for three years running, and I'm no slouch myself.
Chase: Don't sell yourself short, Judge....you're a TREMENDOUS slouch.

Smails: Listen..your father and I prepped together, went to war together. We built this club he and I. ..
Chase: (Raising the golf bet higher.) You know, Judge, my dad...never liked you.

And of course, Judge Smails WAS a judge, which made the character powerful and dangerous -- a reminder that some(a lot?) of judges aren't very smart, nice, or non-corrupt. On these lines:

Judge Smails: I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

Or to our hero caddy, saying he lacks the money to go to college and law school(seeking a scholarship):

Smails: Well, the world needs ditchdiggers, too.

Yes, I'll back pedal a bit on Knight's over-the-top-ish work here. Worked for the movie, and he dutifully made himself a target for Rodney and Chevy.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

Ordinary People is my favorite drama.

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Well, the Academy sure liked it in 1980..it won Best Picture. Over Raging Bull. And though I'll defer to Raging Bull as a "great movie"(it won some critics poll as best movie of the 80s even though it was at the beginning of the decade), I've always been adverse to the rather "non-entertaining" stew of a neanderthal stupid-talking wife-beating DeNiro and Joe Pesci at half speed. Visually, and violence-wise, Raging Bull is a classic of the type. But Ordinary People was about...people. Well to do white people, granted -- but back then nobody made noise about that. Perhaps Ordinary People is yet another movie "that wouldn't be made today."

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Donald Sutherland's performance was the finest Oscar role never to be nominated for the award.

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Its up there. Donald Sutherland died the year I am posting this(2024.) And though he was recognized for his comedy roles(MASH) and his "edge" and his great villain in The Hunger Games -- everyone mentioned his Ordinary People snub. In that movie, he played the NICEST man he ever played. And audiences responded. All that coldness, angst, pain (a beloved son dead by accident, a second son trying suicide...a wife who maybe never loved him) ...it all hit HARD and I think men AND women in the audience clung to Sutherland as the only hopeful character in the film..even as he goes down in flames as it goes on.

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I have stewed about this every time I watch this gem of a film (and I think I'm up to 20).

--

So have many others. The snub made Sutherland's obituaries -- particularly with everyone else being nominated.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

Mary Tyler Moore who was nominated for Best Actress, unfortunately, was up against Sissy Spacek playing Loretta Lynn in '80. She wasn't going to win; she should have gone for Best Supporting Actress.

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I can't remember: were either of the young actresses nominated for supporting

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Timothy Hutton, who did win the Best Supporting Actor Oscar (though being in almost every scene of the movie),

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A classic Oscar gambit. Reversibly, Anthony Hopkins won Best Actor though he wasn't in Silence of the Lambs much, and disappeared for most of the third act.

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was excellent as Conrad Jarrett. Judd Hirsch was terrific as the psychologist. Even the supporting players like Elizabeth McGovern and Dinah Manoff did marvelous work.

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I will have to check out the Oscar noms here. Did Hirsch, McGovern or Manoff get nominated? Sutherland would have had to compete in Best Actor...always the most competitive field even to pick NOMINEES(only five.)

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In essence, first time director, Robert Redford, culled stellar performances from so many actors and actresses - all of different ages and levels of experience.

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They say that actors love to be directed by other actors. Irony: Redford says he's retired now. He only got ONE Best Actor nomination(for The Sting, but perhaps "double duty" for The Way We Were in the same year, 1973.) Didn't win that. But he DID win Best Director for Ordinary People. The Academy seems to like passing over handsome or action male stars for DIRECTING Oscar wins: Redford, Warren Beatty(Reds), Kevin Costner(Dances With Wolves), Mel Gibson(Braveheart.)

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

Taboo is my favorite adult film, tied only with The Opening Misty Beethoven. I won't delve into this film here because I don't know that moviechat is the right forum,

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probably not. Once it starts...it never ends. And then the censors show up. One has to SNEAK these references in.

--

but suffice it to say, it had beautiful shots of San Francisco and Marin County

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Its always nice when an adult film can "open up" beyond the bedroom. And the kitchen. And the living room couch. And the shower....

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as well as some scorching sex scenes.

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I'll be taking your word for it. Though I certainly recall that title. For all the wrong reasons...

[–] GolfnGuitars (2886) 2 months ago

As usual ecarle/roger1, this was very well-written and I enjoyed reading it very much!

ecarle/roger1: "In the "what's funnier? Animal House or Caddyshack?" debate, I'm team Animal House. Caddyshack has a bit too much "plot with the young caddies" and diverts away from the main comedy talent too often. Ted Knight is a much more sitcommish overdone villain than dead serious John Vernon as Dean Wormer in Animal House."

Well, you already know how much I love golf 😀...but I understand where you're coming from here. I think "Animal House" is the "better-made film." However, I'd rather talk about "Caddyshack"...as much as I love the movie (and I do love it), I think it's one of the most bizarre movies ever made. It's supposed to take place in Nebraska, but none of the movie looks like it was shot there. A lot of the "cut scenes" are awkward. They butcher the ending (the "double or nothing" is actually an incorrect application of a "press," which Judge Smails was incredibly foolish to take). So on and so forth.

However, despite all that, the movie somehow works. I am so happy to see you walk back your criticism of Ted Knight...he played Judge Smails perfectly, IMO (Every golf club in America has a "Judge Smails"...a self-important blowhard who thinks he's a lot better golfer than he actually is). Funny is funny...and this movie is funny. Being a golfer, I definitely get the humor...but you don't have to be a golfer to get the movie!

One thing I love about your posts is the "time perspective" and "personalization" of how the movie relates to you. I never saw any of these movies in the theater (I was 11 at the time). I can't remember when I actually saw "Caddyshack" for the first time, but I'm sure it was after I started playing golf (1990). I think the first time I saw "Animal House" was on an NBC special airing of it (I want to say it was a 20th anniversary special, so maybe 1998?). But I really loved it on first viewing also.

Thank you for posting this! I enjoyed reading it very much!

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

Thank you for your kind words, golf n guitars.

Some responses:

However, I'd rather talk about "Caddyshack"...as much as I love the movie (and I do love it), I think it's one of the most bizarre movies ever made.

---

True. The way it seems to be "several movies in one," with different stars in each one -- yet all intersecting. There are "never again" aspects to it, too. For instance, Chevy Chase pretty much the best he ever was -- tall and handsome and slim, messing around with his dialogue but staying on course in the storyline (he's the "cool hero" who can be counted on to help at the end). Bill Murray playing DUMBER than usual -- except with his quite erudite speech about caddying for the Dali Lama ("So I've got that going for me...which is nice.") Murray made history with this short part. Golfers quote him to this day ("Its in the HOLE!" "Cinderella boy....")

Rodney Dangerfield got his part when Don Rickles turned it down. I'll bet Rickles regretted THAT later. What's funny is that Dangerfield doesnt really get to be as funny as he could be on Carson with his machine-gun one-liners, but even at "half speed" and playing a character..he's hilarious. And honestly: "If you buy the hat, I bet you get a free bowl of soup" isn't all that hilarious EXCEPT how Dangerfield delivers the line. More on Ted Knight anon.

----

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

It's supposed to take place in Nebraska, but none of the movie looks like it was shot there.

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Nebraska? With the ocean-going yacht scenes? I guess that COULD take place on a big lake. The story is based on the "Murray family"(Bill but also his brother Brian, who is the Caddy Master here) and their work at a golf course near Chicago where they grew up. I think. The film was shot in Florida, but frankly, once you are on a big golf course...they all look pretty much alike -- even if surrounded by desert (Palm Springs or Arizona) or trees(Atlanta, Lake Tahoe.)

--''

A lot of the "cut scenes" are awkward. They butcher the ending (the "double or nothing" is actually an incorrect application of a "press," which Judge Smails was incredibly foolish to take). So on and so forth.

---

I was always a little confused by that double or nothing bet and I'm not familiar with the term "press" as you use it. See -- I come to Moviechat to LEARN things!

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

However, despite all that, the movie somehow works.

---

Yes it does. You know, I saw Caddyshack first run in a movie theater, and I liked it enough but not CRAZILY, but I think it only GREW on me with showings starting a year later on HBO AND when golfing myself(badly) and hearing friends quote from the movie.

---

I am so happy to see you walk back your criticism of Ted Knight...

--

Oh, I walk back things all the time. It isn't meant as "an act of rank cowardice," but first of all (1) I want to hear other opinions from other people and 'see it from a different perspectice," (2) I CAN change my mind and (3) even if I don't entirely change my mind(I still prefer John Vernon's bad guy to Knights)..I'll never think quite so poorly of Knight's performance as I may have before.

I have now thought of this: BOTH Caddyshack AND Animal House benefit from a good solid villain around whom to organize. Yeah Dean Wormer has the college villains to back him up -- military Nidermeyer and snobbish blond Greg Marmalard -- but Wormer is the Head Honcho. And so it is with Judge Smails -- a villain against whom everyone can rally(and upon whom our young caddy hero depends for too long.)

Meanwhile, "The Blues Brothers" as I recall , doesn't really have ONE major villain. There are some comic book Nazis led by Henry Gibson, and some rednecks led by Charles Napier -- and maybe for a little while Carrie Fisher as Belushi's hateful ex but...no one quite solidly ONE to root against as Wormer or Smails.

I again note that Smails being a Judge makes him a pretty dangerous foe, too.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

he played Judge Smails perfectly, IMO (Every golf club in America has a "Judge Smails"...a self-important blowhard who thinks he's a lot better golfer than he actually is).

---

Here, I sense that you are more knowledgeable about that "type" than I because I'm just not good enough to hang around those types at the country club. So I'll take your point very well, here.

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Funny is funny...and this movie is funny.

---

Absolutely. I can't think of any MORE useless critical debate that "what is funny." Because we all laugh at different things, or laugh HARDER at different things. Nothing would amuse me more than reading some critic saying a movie "wasn't funny" and I'm thinking -- "Well, how come the full house audience I saw that with was laughing their heads off."

I suppose to the extent that I can level SOME comparative criticism towards Caddyshack against Animal House it is that Caddyshack just had to spend a little TOO MUCH time on the story of the caddies. But that's all. Funny IS funny. Caddyshack IS funny...and has stood the test of time. I've shown it -- and Animal House -- to much younger people who don't even know who Chevy Chase IS or Belushi WAS. And they laugh.

--

Being a golfer, I definitely get the humor...but you don't have to be a golfer to get the movie!

---
I, personally, am living proof of that! I golf...but I am not a golfer.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

One thing I love about your posts is the "time perspective" and "personalization" of how the movie relates to you.
--

This is the one thing I have tried to bring to my posts that I hope to be "different than the usual." As you can see, if I "just" offer my opinion on a movie, or Ted Knight in Caddyshack, I'm just another opinion and I open myself up to OTHER opinions and well, that's done a lot at Moviechat.

But if I can offer this "personal history" going back decades to when and where and how I saw the movie -- and often WHO I saw it with (Animal House and Caddyshack with GUYS, not on dates), well, its a historical service I am attempting.

Briefly on the 1980 movies: it was important WHERE I saw "The Empire Strikes Back" and "The Shining." I saw each of them -- first week -- at the Motion Picture Academy Theater in Los Angeles. For free. No lines.

I knew a young woman for a few years who, for a very brief time, worked at the Academy and she was only able to offer me ticket to THOSE two movies during THAT particular summer but -- WHAT a pair!

Indeed, in the 1977/1980 corridor, while everyone ELSE waited in hours-long lines to see Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back first run, I got to see each for free at a special screening. Star Wars(1977) on the Fox lot at a "screening for students"(tickets gotten at college); Empire Strikes Back at the Academy for "academy members and guests." Yeah, that sounds braggy, but for me it was just lucky. I rarely got such privileges ever again.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

And this: at the student Star Wars screening on the Fox lot, everybody was cheering and yelling and applauding and laughing all the way through. At the Academy Empire Strikes Back screening...pretty much silence. NO cheering, NO yelling, NO applauding. My analysis at the time, looking around the full house theater: (1) "Old people" who may have WORKED at the studios but were retired now and didn't get Star Wars (2) Young "70's cineastes" who saw Star Wars as ruining their "New Hollywood Eurofilm-type indies" and...just plain jealous people.

Hey, I didn't interview any of the audience; only the old ones were visibly so. But that was my guess. Anyway, a dead silent screening of The Empire Strikes Back(of course, that included me, I was NEVER one to cheer, yell or scream at movies but I enjoyed hearing others do it -- however I DO laugh and sometimes applaud at movies, even to this day.

I recall being a bit disappointed by Empire Strikes Back because it was clearly a "To Be Continued" Story and worse -- "the middle part." Star Wars launched the series, but COULD have ended the series "as it was." Return of the Jedi ended the series(THAT series.) Empire was just in the middle.

And grim. I know, I know: It seems that the same people who like Godfather II better than The Godfather like Empire Strikes Back better than Star Wars. The second films are "darker" and "deeper." Eh, the first films were stand alone and highly entertaining films. Still, Empire Strikes Back gave us Yoda (in his dark land) and the Big Twist("I AM your...") For the record, I like The Godfather and Star Wars better than Godfather II and Empire Strikes Back. But I like all four of them. (The Godfather is my favorite movie of 1972, and Star Wars comes in behind Black Sunday as my favorite of 1977.)

I paid to see the rest of the 1980 summer comedies and movies. And "Used Cars" ended up my favorite of the four comedies and my favorite of 1980 (The Shining is Number Two.)

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

I recall the Academy audience being MUCH more appreciative of The Shining than of The Empire Strikes Back. Kubrick was a peer, I suppose(though they never gave HIM an Oscar love.) A lot of laughter (with, not at) Nicholson's wonderfully over-the-top perormance.

It DEFINITELY took me a few more viewings of The Shining to embrace it(and now I do) but I recall REALLY loving these Nicholson-based scenes the first time I saw it:

Nicholson interviewed by Barry Nelson, start to finish. Such a WONDERFUL representation of how "normal" and enthusiastic one has to be at an interview -- I've never seen Nicholson so NORMAL. And the interview lasts a LONG time. And Barry Nelson -- you just don't trust the guy, do you?

Nicholson in the bar with Lloyd the bartender. I've often wondered: did dry drunk Nicholson IMAGINE that satisfying alcoholic drink? Or could the ghosts REALLY serve him?(If there were ghosts.)

Nicholson in the bathroom with Grady the Butler. As with Lloyd -- but moreso -- Kubrick lets the scene go on and on and on (Lloyd gets two scenes, each shorter than Grady's one.)

Nicholson's long stalk of trembling Shelly Duvall across the big room and up the stairs. Horror or a study in domestic abuse by a wife of a husband? And its FUNNY. I DO remember a reaction from the Academy audience when Jack kept saying: "Gimme the bat, Wendy. Gimme the BAT."

Audience: "GIVE HIM THE BAT!" And she did. Right on the noggin.

Well, so yeah, the summer of 1980 was a good movie summer. Comedies sure dominated though. SNL demonstrated its newfound clout as a maker of stars and star screenwriters but Airplane was there out of the ZAZ guys (This, The Naked Gun movies and the Hot Shots movies would be their legacy, plus the fine one-off Top Secret) g and "Used Cars" was backed by Spielberg himself. (I think he took his name off it THEN; his name is back on it NOW.)

[–] GolfnGuitars (2886) 2 months ago

Thank you so much for the responses, roger1...truly incredible information and great observations that you made. I'll try to respond to a few of them:

1) Chevy Chase: Yes, I agree with you that "Caddyshack" was probably the best he ever looked on the big screen. Sometimes, I tend to forget just how big he was in the late 70s and especially early/mid 80s. He was a big, big star... I'll never forget the end of the video of Ray Parker Jr.'s "Ghostbusters," where he does that little trick with a cigarette. 😀

2) Bill Murray: Yes, just say the name "Carl Spackler" at a golf course and just about everyone there knows who's being referenced! 😀 His "Cinderella story" speech is one of the greatest scenes in movie history, IMO (and I think when he caddies for the Bishop during the storm is so funny as well...one of the funniest bits in a funny movie). One thing about Bill Murray... even though he played the "clown" at the Pebble Beach Pro-Am, he had/has a very nice golf swing. I think he's actually very passionate about golf.

3) I didn't know that about Don Rickles turning down the Al Czervik role! I think you're probably right about Rickles regretting that. But Rodney Dangerfield killed it in that role, as you said. It's funny that you mentioned "The Tonight Show" in regards to Rodney, because he was such a great guest. I always loved his Miller Lite commercials..."All we need is one pin, Rodney!" Clank! 😀 Those were the days! 😀

4) Brian Doyle-Murray... I've always thought it was interesting how different he looks in "Caddyshack" compared to his later roles that I saw him in (National Lampoon's Vacation," "Groundhog Day," etc ). It's hard to believe it's the same person sometimes. But I think he was definitely a very important person in regards to "Caddyshack" being so great.

I would love to type more right now, but I'm afraid I have some parenting duties that call. I will try to respond to the rest of your posts this upcoming week. Have a great week!

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

This is a pleasant conversation, golf n guitars. I know you only come around when the timing is right, but it is a plesaure when you do. "Pleasant" is so missing in today's media society.

---

1) Chevy Chase: Yes, I agree with you that "Caddyshack" was probably the best he ever looked on the big screen. Sometimes, I tend to forget just how big he was in the late 70s and especially early/mid 80s. He was a big, big star... I'll never forget the end of the video of Ray Parker Jr.'s "Ghostbusters," where he does that little trick with a cigarette. 😀

---

That trick with the cigarette offered a glance at the fact that Chevy Chase, in addition to being funny and handsome, had certain physical skills . Of course, on SNL he was very famous for taking BIG falls, and in the 80's, there was music video featring Chase and Paul Simon on the latter's calypso flavored patter song "You Can Call Me Al." in which the comedy STARTS great -- tall GIANT Chase sitting next to short, diminuitive Simon -- as Chase not only expertly lipsyncs Simon's singing but tosses in all sort of precise yet overdone facial expressions and hand gestures. THAT's among the best things Chevy Chase did, too.

The story of Chevy Chase's stardom was an interesting one. He DID emerge quickly as THE star of SNL , it is said, because he did the news, said "I'm Chevy Chase and you're not" and rather flirted with the camera(often beginning the "report" by signing off on a sexual phone conversation with an unseen woman.

NBC reportedly wanted to turn SNL into "The Chevy Chase Show" which bugged the other players(especially Belushi) and was resisted by Lorne Michaels. So -- early in Season Two -- off to movies Chase went(while RETAINING an NBC contract for a few specials.)

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

As the movie guys worked on how to turn Chase INTO a star, I was always fascinated by this report: Chase was seriously considered for what became the Nick Nolte role in the serious ocean-going thriller The Deep -- from Peter Benchley's follow up novel to Jaws. The young male lead in The Deep was a "regular guy"(not a spy or cop or anything) but he DID need to physically fight the bad guys -- it was an action role that Nolte used for HIS launch from TV stardom("Rich Man, Poor Man.") Anyway, imagine Chevy Chase having to play a "straight action role" (and seriously romancing wet tee-shirt clad Jackie Bisset) in The Deep. I'm not sure he could have shut down his snarky, smirky comedy persona for it.

Instead, Chase was talked into playing "Cary Grant light" in Foul Play opposite Big Star Goldie Hawn. It was a Hitchcock spoof(mixing The Lady Vanishes with The Man Who Knew Too Much) in Hitchcock's Vertigo town -- San Francisco. And it did fine in the summer of 1978.

...but Animal House(which Chase turned down -- Otter) did a lot better and suddenly BELUSHI was on the cover of Newsweek(back when that mattered.)

Speaking of Cary Grant, somewhere around this time, Chase called Grant gay on a talk show -- and Grant(still alive and kicking) sued him and the newspapers picked up on it. Meanwhile, Chase pushed away talk of replacing Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show as something that would bore him to tears and Carson hit back hard. Alienating Cary Grant and Johnny Carson in your first years as a young star? Not smart. In the 80s when he was fading, Chase actually TRIED TO DO a talk show -- and was horrible at it, and it bombed and Carson was still alive to mock nim. Ouch.

Here are Chevy Chase's movies from Foul Play to Vacation(1983):

Foul Play
Oh Heavenly Dog(a Benji movie -- seeking a kiddie audience?)
Caddyshack
Seems Like Old Times(with Hawn again -- for Neil Simon)
Under the Rainbow(flop)
Modern Problems (WEIRD flop.)
Vacation

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

There were some successful movies in there, but some UNsuccesful movies were in the mix, too. Meanwhile, Bill Murray was coming on strong and then -- from the "next generation" of SNL stars, came the biggest of them all: Eddie Murphy.

Still, I remember that I liked Chevy Chase a lot, he DID have it, and when he joined Dan Ackroyd(always willing to pair up with an SNL co-star) in Spies Like Us in 1985, the nostalgia was strong. Chase just sort of "stayed in the game" on through the 80s and 90s and...like anyone who made their name, never really went away. (His personal life and mental state got showcased a lot though in his later years -- and not in a good way.)

A few years ago, Burt Reynolds last noteable movie came out entitled "The Last Movie Star." Reynolds was pretty much playing himsalf, and actually played scenes as "Old Burt" with young virile Burt through CGI -- his big ones -- Delivrance for seriousness and Smokey and the Bandit for comedy. It is a poignant film and "the wrongly intended tombstone" for his career. Reynolds died before he could play George Spahnn for Tarantino in "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" so -- The Last Movie Star will have to suffice.

Reynolds-under-another-character name plays an old movie star invited to be honored at a film festival -- only to learn its a rinky-dink nothing affair in a bowling alley(or a pizza parlor or something like that.) Its a good, tough little film AND...the movie opens with "fake Burt Reynolds" having lunch with ANOTHER "fake old movie star" played by...Chevy Chase(there I got to him.) Looking at Reynolds and Chase as old men with major pasts was quite touching -- particularly since each of them had pretty tempermental reputations when they were on top.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

You felt that Reynolds must have ASKED Chevy Chase to join him. After all, Burt was Chevy's first guest on that terrible talk show, I remember Burt joking ON AIR, "this is really bombing." Ha. Well, they're survivors and they left some fun movies behind.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

2) Bill Murray: Yes, just say the name "Carl Spackler" at a golf course and just about everyone there knows who's being referenced! 😀

--

Yes...guys (and some gals) just CAN'T HELP parroting his lines..."Cinderella Story...Cinderella Boy..." Which is pretty joyous when you think about it. Movie stars get slammed for their egos or bad behavior(Murray got a LOT of bad press, and seems to be trying to make up for it) but at the end of the day, they DO give us the backdrop for our entire lives. Its why the good ones get paid the big bucks.

And c'mon now, what group of guys haven't -- quietly, under their breath -- looked at women playing on the course and intoned "Ohhh...you little monkey woman" -- the comedy in the movie being that Murray's lustful remarks are about OLD women on the course. (Hey, I'm pretty old now myself, but this scene is locked in my memory from when I was YOUNG.)

--

His "Cinderella story" speech is one of the greatest scenes in movie history, IMO

---

All improvised on the spot yes? Murray was like a great stand up playing a character -- and he did it in Ghostbusters too(that movie is heralded as a great movie for kids, but this adult loved all of Murray's stuff FOR adults.

My favorite line from Murray as the poasessed Sigourney Weaver comes on to him:

Murray: I make it a rule not to make out with possessed women(she comes on harder) ...well, its more of a guideline...

I"ve been using "well, its more of a guideline" line all my adult life.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

(and I think when he caddies for the Bishop during the storm is so funny as well...one of the funniest bits in a funny movie).

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Yes, a howling Florida near-hurricane and Murray says something like "Sure you can play, I think its going to calm down" or something like that. And how he creeps off -- dropping the golf bag -- after the Bishop goes down. (Great music here, too.)

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

One thing about Bill Murray... even though he played the "clown" at the Pebble Beach Pro-Am, he had/has a very nice golf swing. I think he's actually very passionate about golf.

---

Yes..you have to be pretty good -- even as a celebrity -- to make the cut. I don't think Jack Lemmon ever did except once.

I DO have a personal "Bill Murray golf story" -- at my expense, so here it is:

It was Pebble Beach and my friends and I stood just outside the rope line at a green. The foursome was Murray, Andy Garcia...and two pros.

Murray came over to the rope line, goofed around, shook a few hands. He came to me, looked me in the eyes with a smile, extended his hand.

Problem was: I was about a foot away from the rope -- and a woman was sitting on the grass right in front of me. The back of her head came up about to my knees. And in an instant I thought: "Murray's suckering me in to lean over this woman ...what if I trip over her and fall into his arms? And all these people are watching us. And there might be TV."

So I pulled my hand back and elected not to shake Murray's hand. He gave me a mock(?) look of mild disappointment and he moved on and my friends said "What'sa matta with you -- BILL MURRAY wanted to shake your hand and you pulled BACK?" I gave my excuse about the woman and they just shook their heads. Putz.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

3) I didn't know that about Don Rickles turning down the Al Czervik role! I think you're probably right about Rickles regretting that.

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Its a guess. I"m guessing it was a scheduling problem...Rickles must have known that with those SNL new guys it would be a hit. I'm sure Rickles would have been fine -- he was often very funny -- but it was "Rodney's time." (Folks may forget how RIDIULOUS his stage name sounded for his first few years -- he didn't LOOK like a "Rodney Dangerfield." , because he was born Jacob Cohen and he tried "Jack Roy" as a name before Rodney.)

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

It's funny that you mentioned "The Tonight Show" in regards to Rodney, because he was such a great guest.

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One of the best. You could see Johnny Carson "light up" when Rodney came on -- he KNEW he had a guest who was going to "kill." The set-up was always the same: (1) Rodney does stand-up on the stage then (2) Rodney comes to the couch and does MORE stand-up under the guise of talking to Johnny.

Folks always remember "I don't get no respect"(which, Jack Benny told Rodney, was the key to his act: "Everybody feels that way")...but he had ANOTHER catch-phrase when he came to the counch:

Johnny: So, how you doin' Rodney?
Rodney: Well, I'm OK now but I tell ya...I was terrible.

Ha.

Rodney did his rapid-fire one-liners -- about 20 per couch appearance --and since I couldn't remember them all to tell my friends, I would take a pad and pen and WRITE THEM DOWN and THEN tell my friends from my notes.

Its funny: Rodney really doesn't get to TELL many(any?) joke in Caddyshack, he pulls off the character.

And will say this: "if you buy this hat, I bet they give you a free bowl of soup" is EXACTLY the kind of "non joke joke" that DON RICKLES used to tell -- he was all about attitude -- his one liners weren't all that great (Roasting Clint Eastwood "A big night for Clint is sitting in the back of his pick-up watching his dog sleep.")

Anyway, Caddyshack was a shining moment for Chase, Murray, AND Dengerfield(and OK, for Ted Knight too -- his legacy, probably more than Mary Tyler Moore. And trivia: 20 years before Caddyshack, Ted Knight has a totally silent bit part as the cop guarding Norman Bates' cell in Psycho. Boy did THAT get a laugh in college screenings.)

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

4) Brian Doyle-Murray... I've always thought it was interesting how different he looks in "Caddyshack" compared to his later roles that I saw him in (National Lampoon's Vacation," "Groundhog Day," etc ). It's hard to believe it's the same person sometimes.

---

I guess because Brian Doyle-Murray didn't have to carry movies like his brother Bill, he was allowed to "let himself go" and he became a balding middle-aged man before our eyes. (Bill was never a matinee idol, but he was very tall and reasonably lanky.) Brian was VERY funny on "National Lampoon" albums in the 70s, coulda/shoulda maybe had brother Bill's career. But he sure worked a lot.

There's ANOTHER Murray brother who carved out a great serio-comic character on Mad Men. Joel Murray -- he had a devastating character arc as a really nice ad man with a drinking problem who gets fired in a very painful episode -- we learn that this milquetoast funny guy killed many Nazis in WWII and that's why he's a drunk. Painful -- though his character bounced back.

There is(was?) a "Murray Brothers" golf restaurant in Jacksonsville Fla, near the now-defunct PGA hall of fame. I ate there once . The menu said something like "And please remember to tip our servers...you know, a little something for the effort."

CONT

[–] GolfnGuitars (2886) 2 months ago

Hello ago, roger1/ecarle. The site seems like it's working much better now...glad it's working well again!

I loved your recollections of watching "Star Wars," "The Empire Strikes Back," and "The Shining." You indeed were very fortunate to skip the long lines and what great memories for you!

I can talk more about "The Empire Strikes Back," because I did see that one in the theater as a 11-year old (FYI, I saw the first six "Star Wars" movies in the theater... about the only series that my family and I did. The old phrase "Everybody went to see "Star Wars" wasn't far from the truth!). I remember two big reactions from the crowd...the first one was when the Millennium Falcon flies out of the mouth of the "space monster" (or whatever it was). The second was the line from Darth Vader being Luke's father (there were a few "gasps" when that happened, including my oldest sister! 😀). But I agree with your thoughts about it... it's really a very cold and very dark movie (not just in tone...in visual terms also). And, while I do like it also, I like the original "Star Wars" better.

More in a bit....

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

Hello ago, roger1/ecarle. The site seems like it's working much better now...glad it's working well again!

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I thought it was just me. Hard to post and all those "double posts." The terrible thing is I can't edit from my cell phone anymore so my mistakes just have to "hang out there" for days.

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I loved your recollections of watching "Star Wars," "The Empire Strikes Back," and "The Shining." You indeed were very fortunate to skip the long lines and what great memories for you!

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I realize I'm in that "looking back period" but it is one of the gifts of life as one enters the later years and can take stock. The movies WERE important to me then, I and know they ARE important to the young generation currently responding to MCU and DCU and the rest.

I'm not as down as Quentin Tarantino on the 50s and early 60s as "too censored,' but I DO remember a shift in the 70s away from "serious historical dramas" like Becket and Lawrence of Arabia and Doctor Zhivago and The Agony and the Ecstasy and A Man for All Seasons ...TO the exciting and more youth-based films of the 70s, which in turn became the Lucas/Spielberg 80s and has led to ...today.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

I mean, that summer of 1980. The Empire Strikes Back was the Big One, but all those comedies just came pumping out one after the other and...Kubrick took a shot at "mainstream horror" (HIS way) with Stephen King's The Shining.

I just flashed on going to one of those multi-screen drive-ins in the summer of 1980, to watch Airplane. But on the screens all around me in the nighttime were ALSO The Empire Strikes Back and The Shining and The Blues Brothers. My rule: DON"T look at the movies I hadn't seen yet, DO look (again) at the ones I saw. The only problem: losing concentration on Airplane (which I chose to see at a drive-in because I didn't think it was a big deal -- I REQUIRED indoor screens with good sound for first viewings of Empire and The Shining.)

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

I can talk more about "The Empire Strikes Back," because I did see that one in the theater as a 11-year old (FYI, I saw the first six "Star Wars" movies in the theater... about the only series that my family and I did. The old phrase "Everybody went to see "Star Wars" wasn't far from the truth!).

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I grew up in a "movie going family" -- saw a lot of them(a lot of them at drive-ins, to spare my parents babysitters, etc) -- BUT I had any number of friends for whom a movie was a "once or twice a year" thing and ONLY if it was "the big one everybody had to see." THOSE are the kind of movies that made the biggest bucks from The Sound of Music to The Godfather to Jaws to Star Wars.

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I remember two big reactions from the crowd...the first one was when the Millennium Falcon flies out of the mouth of the "space monster" (or whatever it was). The second was the line from Darth Vader being Luke's father (there were a few "gasps" when that happened, including my oldest sister! 😀).

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Yep, I remember those two -- BIG surprises, both of them (we thought they were in a CAVE, not a living CREATURE and..the other one? It sure turned things on its heel -- Darth Vader himself got the cover of Time Magazine.

And if there is one thing that our "streaming generation" of movie goers ARE missing, it is that great thrill of being in an audience and REACTING...yellling, laughing, screaming. My memories of so many great screams come with those memories attached. (Wait Until Dark -- what a SCREAM! Blazing Saddles - what a LAUGH!_

It occurs to me that all these regular folks "reacting to movies" on YouTube may be supplying a younger generation with "someone to scream with" -- almost like being in a full house theater. But maybe not.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

But I agree with your thoughts about it... it's really a very cold and very dark movie (not just in tone...in visual terms also). And, while I do like it also, I like the original "Star Wars" better.

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My thoughts exactly. I mean recall that final scene in Star Wars where everybody gets their medals and takes a bow. The crowd went NUTS. Now compare to the end of Empire Strikes Back. The audience sort of just sat there, demoralized. Darth Vader is Luke's FATHER? Han Solo is ...frozen carbon? By the way, I can't remember when the reveal came but it was a bit queasy to learn that Leia was Luke's SISTER. He'd kissed her in Star Wars -- not too deeply but heck..she had been built up as a love interest for Luke! Good news for Han, though.

CONT

[–] roger1 (3626) 2 months ago

And now the requisite: "Older guy remembers bit" but.poignant to me.

To me there is NO "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope."

There is only "Star Wars" of 1977. It remains not only the first one, but the best one. Empire -- however honored -- was dark as I said. Return of the Jedi seemed almost "past it" and perfunctory. Harrison Ford, hot off of Raiders of the Lost Ark, isn't really in it much.

And then came the disappointing "prequel trilogy" and -- a couple of decades later -- these Star Wars' "products" of today(with Hamill, Ford and Fisher all OLD. And dead on screen and off in certain instances.)

But this: way, way back when I first saw Star Wars, I recall Lucas giving interviews and saying things like:

"Well, I see this first one as part of a saga. There will be sequels and then I want to go back in time and tell the story BEFORE this movie...and then I want to move forward and tell stories AFTER this one. I envision three trilogies."

Reading that, I was like "yeah, yeah..SURE..we're still going to be watching this story 30 or 40 years from now? RIGHT."

And then I managed to live...decade...after decade...after decade...to see ALL OF THAT COME TRUE.

Its pretty amazing to have been -- lucky? -- enough to have lived from the first Star Wars all the way through ALL those trilogies JUST LIKE LUCAS PREDICTED.

Whatever my final lifespan will be, its truly been amazing to have been around since "the end of Hitchocck" (Psycho, The Birds) and to have seen the first James Bond(Dr. No) in the theater as a KID(thanks, parents) and on through Bullitt and The Wild Bunch and The Godfather and Jaws and Rocky(back when that was just "a little movie with an unknown lead) and the ENTIRE "Star Wars" saga (to DATE) and on and on.

Someone who lived before me got to see King Kong first run, and Casablanca first run, and Ben-Hur first run but..that was THEIR lifetime.

This is mine, and its been a damn great time at the movies...