MovieChat Forums > Kramer vs. Kramer (1979) Discussion > WHY didn't Ted or his lawyer bring that ...

WHY didn't Ted or his lawyer bring that letter?!!!

posted 8 years ago by fiatlux-1
20 replies | jump to latest

Why didn't his lawyer read that diabolical letter that Joanna wrote to her own son, telling him basically that 'she has other things to do now than be his Mommy'?!

But then, if that moronic jury didn't see anything wrong with walking away from your young son for 18 months....perhaps it wouldn't have helped.

I still would have read it, if only to humiliate that horrible woman.
Ted was no angel God knows, but at least Ted stuck around AND supported them!

I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

[–] roman_39 8 years ago

There was no jury.

And it sounds like you came out on the short end of a divorce...LOL

We applied Rule .303. We caught them and we shot them under Rule .303!

[–] fiatlux-1 8 years ago

Read it to the judge then.

And no, I've never been married.

What does that have to do with my topic?

I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

[–] Cloudburst2000 8 years ago

Likely would not have mattered. It was very very rare back in that day and time for a woman not to be awarded custody. It likely would have taken the mother being a druggie, violent, etc for her to lose custody. Joanna would very likely still have gotten custody just because she was the mother.

[–] rascal67 8 years ago

Why didn't his lawyer read that diabolical letter that Joanna wrote to her own son, telling him basically that 'she has other things to do now than be his Mommy'?!...I still would have read it, if only to humiliate that horrible woman.
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😄 Yes, and I never really thought of the letter aspect before. Ted was humiliated by her lawyer with Billy's accident scenario, for which she did apologize later; but it would have still served her right. Even Billy couldn't bear to hear that vile letter she wrote about not being able to be his mommy, only a mommy of the heart. What does that even mean? She was pretty much cold and dead inside.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rascal67 8 years ago

Billy was better off with his daddy than that unstable woman
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Well put Madame Che. Ted had more positive attributes and while it would have been a struggle, he could still cope with raising Billy and work fulltime. Joanna couldn't even cope with being a stay at home mom and if she had taken custody of Billy, how would she have coped working and being a full time mother as well. She knew it would have been hard work.

In the book, Ted did have a housekeeper and minder for Billy at some stage, he lost 2 jobs and was almost destitute at one stage and had to use his credit card just so they could eat. I think he borrowed some money of his brother.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rascal67 8 years ago

Pretty much the same reason as the movie. He was late on the deadline for an account and another one, I think the company went under.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] LukeLovesFilm28 8 years ago

Christ. I totally spaced the letter. Since my mom died, I get so personal with the idea of a little boy like Billy losing his mom, I start bawling when he starts reading that stupid letter. BUT it might have helped him in court if they used it. Maybe like me, Ted spaced the letter.

I still say a mother is far more vile for leaving her child than any father. From conception, mothers are the most trusted people in our lives. What Joanna did here was no different than stabbing Billy in the back.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

[–] rascal67 8 years ago

From conception, mothers are the most trusted people in our lives. What Joanna did here was no different than stabbing Billy in the back.
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Well in this case, it was Ted who was more trusting. He wasn't initially given an opportunity to get to know his son due to his work commitments and that is understandable. Like often discussed, it doesn't mean the mother is "naturally" more nurturing or more caring, just by virtue of her "special" female gender. These again, are just social constructs depending on each families situation. What Joanna did to Billy was cruel to begin with, and he was lucky he had a man around like Ted in his life. Ted became genuine Mom and Dad, while Joanna was always just a pseudo-mother.

I have mentioned before on these threads, that if a personality type like Joanna had a daughter and not a son, I doubt she would have left, or would have taken her with her.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

[–] LukeLovesFilm28 8 years ago

I'm just saying that psychologically, every child trusts his or her mother first and foremost. Her choices can destroy that trust. Joanna's choices definitely prove how sh!tty she is. So, after she left, Billy began to see his father as the more trustworthy.

I have mentioned before on these threads, that if a personality type like Joanna had a daughter and not a son, I doubt she would have left, or would have taken her with her.

That is probably very accurate and it bugs the sh!t out of me. It's like a socially-approved form of sexism. It's the righteous thing for a mom to walk on her child because she doesn't think she's capable. BUT god help a dad who walks out because he doesn't feel he's capable.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

[–] rascal67 8 years ago

I'm just saying that psychologically, every child trusts his or her mother first and foremost. Her choices can destroy that trust.
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Wouldn't it depend on the amount of time and input the parent spends with the child, be it mother or father? Some families, the father may be the one the child looks up too. I don't think this is something that is always set in stone. There may have been certain trusts I held with my father more than my mother, depending on what it was. If the mother is there more at the start, then I suppose this is the stronger bond the child may create with that parent, however, I have known families where it is the other way round or the father is the stay at home.

It's like a socially-approved form of sexism. It's the righteous thing for a mom to walk on her child because she doesn't think she's capable. BUT god help a dad who walks out because he doesn't feel he's capable.
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Yes, but of course sexism is something only created by females and affects them only. They can be as sexist and misadrist as they like; but that is their given apparently for being so darn "special". When it can come to responsibilities being shirked, it is always easier to put the blame onto someone else, so why not blame the male. After all, they owe the female because she allowed him the sexual use of her body, regardless of how much she was begging for it.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

[–] jayhn1111 8 years ago

That letter was one of the most offensive things her character did in the movie.

[–] Goodbye_from_Fox_In_A_Box 8 years ago

He may have, and we just didn't see it.

While the letter was relevant, Joanna already described on the stand why she left. The judge already knew. I don't think the letter would have proven anything, considering Joanna admitted she left her child for selfish reasons.

I don't want the world. I just want your half.

[–] redban (6779) 5 years ago

I think she covered everything stated in letter when she took the witness stand.

And more importantly, the movie established how much the system favored the mother. The letter would not have changed the outcome

[–] Adam60z (3781) 5 years ago

There were many things wrong with the script, but Dustin Hoffman made it worth seeing. Yes, they should have had a very strong case in that she was the one who walked out and left her son. There is the letter and other evidence not used, at least that we know of. Anyway it sucks that Me Too has even hit Dustin, and Meryl even ganged up on him. I hope the whole hysteria blows over and stops hitting innocent people decades afterward.

[–] Goodfaery (5) 4 years ago

Answering to OP, Ted has probably thrown away that letter. It was so disgusting one could feel one's innards get inside out. Ted was so embarassed reading it he didnt dare to cast another look at Billy. Plus no one knew Joanna would sue for custody in the future

[–] Adam60z (3781) 4 years ago

The other thing not in the script is a divorce. Only a moron would throw out a letter that could likely let you keep your son. Again something else the writer didn't bother to consider. Didn't think the writing was that good in general; the acting was.

[–] Goodfaery (5) 4 years ago

Well, original cut was 40+ minutes extra. They threw out the entire character of nanny, so who knows what else was there...

By writer you mean the scriptwriter? In the book the letter was read through to the end and Billy himself put the letter in his drawer.