What the ... HELL?

everyone is capable of making "poor" decisions

"poor" in quotes here means something very mysterious. For our purposes, I mean "poor" defined as something that is not necessarily in the best interests of the child, or something they would regret later in life, or something that the kid doesn't really want to do but is convinced that it is in their best interest to do because it is a 'rule' or because it is just what kids are supposed to do, like eating their vegetables or doing their homework.

I don't think there isn't a single adult out there that hasn't made a poor choice or decision as an adult (often with far reaching consequences).

I never said adults never make mistakes. They make plenty of them; and they can make some pretty bad ones, at that. My argument is that kids are much more likely to make those mistakes. But more accurately, my point is that kids are more likely not to necessarily make mistakes, but to choose in favor of the interests of an adult who is trying to convince them to do something, whether it be a poor choice or a good choice or a benign choice. They are just more likely to do what they're told, at least without as much resistance as another adult would offer, and at most, without question whatsoever, depending on the child's age.

I especially disagree that ALL kids under a certain age are going to ALWAYS make poor decisions... you didn't actually state that but to me it was implied.

If I didn't actually state it then I won't even bother arguing about it. I didn't say it, and I don't think it.

And as I think I've pointed out, adults can be just as easily manipulated as children.

The fact that adults CAN BE just as easily manipulated doesn't matter. The point is, kids are easily manipulated in comparison to adults, generally-speaking. These are general statement, and not intended as literal across-the-board judgments; so please don't say "that's not always true" or "i knew a kid who could read war and peace", because that stuff doesn't apply here. In general, kids just know less. They have less experience. Those are facts. But there's even more to it than that.

Kids are people who haven't yet developed into adults. They're used to being manipulated into doing things like doing their homework and eating their vegetables. They're even used to be being flat-out told what to do. When an adult says something to a child, it's rare for a child to consider the possibility beforehand that the adult may be trying to deceive them. The adults children generally encounter are their authority figures. Their parents are adults, their teachers are adults, their baby-sitters are at least a lot older than them, and so are their camp counselors, and so is anyone else who is constantly teaching them, giving them instructions, telling them what the rules are, and punishing them.

That's not to say there aren't kids who don't trust adults by default. But generally speaking, kids ARE easily manipulated, and ARE extremely trusting of adults. It's not just a generalization based on what I've seen. It's common sense. Their lives are governed by adults. Their realities are based on what adults tell them. That gives them a built-in weakness to adults who might be interested in convincing them to do something that is based more on the adult's best interests rather than the kid's. We teach our kids to believe, respect, and obey the adults around them. "Except if a stranger tells you to do something bad", we say; but there are about a million ways for any adult with a brain in his head to get around that little rule and convince a kid to do "something bad" anyway, and it happens.

I'll go even further, since I know the next thing you would say: Who says that something sexual is "something bad"? Who says the kid will regret it later? Who's to say experimentation is a bad thing for a kid? Well, maybe it's not. Maybe they won't regret it later. Maybe you're even such an upstanding individual that you wouldn't even use a kid's innocence against them. Maybe you would only try to talk a kid into doing something if you thought they were of exceptional intelligence, and only if you didn't feel like you were taking advantage of their lack of experience, and only if you deeply felt that this is what the kid wants and that this particular kid is competent enough to make the decision. Let's assume that was the case.

That still leaves kids open to adults who are not as upstanding as you are. Not all adults who are interested in kids sexually are going to be thinking like you. The fact is that kids generally are easily manipulated by adults. This is just the reality of the situation. Whether or not you personally would take advantage of that fact, the fact itself remains. And that means other adults could and do take advantage of it; again this may not be the case in every situation, but it is still likely to occur.

Now let's say for argument's sake you disagree with all of that. Let's say that despite what their parents might think, kids are not easily-manipulated; rather, they possess reasoning skills and an ability to question the intentions of others that generally equals that of adults. Let's say that sexual experimentation is healthy for kids, even with adults. Let's say we are in total agreement that there is no reason to believe kids would be tricked, brainwashed, or unduly accepting of an adult's coercion, at least no more so than another adult would be, and that if kids decide to do anything, they are doing it with full understanding of what they're doing and the implication of doing it, and positive will to do it; or, if they don't fully understand it, that it's still not a bad thing for them to do it.

Even if all of that were true, their parents still disagree.

Everyone has different opinions, different outlooks on the world, and different views of morality and sexuality. There are certain things that just haven't been scientifically proven one way or another, and a good many of these things can furthermore never be proven. They are a matter of opinion and individual morals, and no one opinion carries more weight than another. There are very few issues of morality that are absolutely defined. The only things we know for sure to be "bad" are those things that sane individuals would not want done to them, and therefore we can conjecture that they shouldn't be done by anyone. These include things like murder, theft, rape, and physical abuse. I don't want these things done to me, so I know by default that I shouldn't be doing those things to others. "Do unto others", as the bible says; I'm not even religious, but no one can say this doesn't inherently make sense for all people.

So for those moral issues that can't be decided by fact, how are people supposed to decide how to act when those issues arise? Well, when the only people you have to deal with are in agreement with you on those issues, there's no problem. The problem appears when such an issue arises in a situation where the individuals' opinions differ greatly.

The particular issue we're dealing with has to do with kids. There are many differing opinions on how to handle kids. So who's right? Who determines what's best for kids?

Is it you?

The phrase "of course not" comes to mind, but let's take the more balanced approach. The fact is that there are many differing opinions. When there are many differing opinions on something that can't be proven, such as morality, no one can rightfully take it upon themselves to make the decision for everyone else. Your opinion is just one in a sea of others. So of all the opinions out there, which should apply to kids? Should one opinion apply to all kids? And if not, who determines which apply to some kids and which to others?

There's no perfect answer. But each kid has a built-in system for determining how to handle that which is in question in the world. That system is made up at least of their communities and their religions. And at most, for those kids who are lucky enough, they have people who pass down to them rules of life and a moral base. Those people are their parents. In matters of opinion, who determines what's best for children? Their parents do. Who's the best choice for determining what's best for kids when there is no absolute correct choice? Who could possibly have more of a right to choose what's best for a kid, other than a kid's own parents? It might not be a perfect system, but it is the best one. Given the choice of a parent versus "you", the parent is clearly more entitled to make that call.

"Do unto others". If you had kids, would you want someone taking it upon themselves to determine how they should be treated? Would you want someone treating your kids according to their moral opinions instead of yours? Would you want someone who thought differently from you disregarding your opinions, and acting instead on what they think is best for your kids?

I've had to deal with kids a lot. I have many friends with kids, and I've worked with kids. I've seen many parents who raise their kids the wrong way; but I have the foresight to know that "the wrong way" is completely subjective, and nothing more than my opinion. On more occasions than I can count, I've wanted to tell parents that they're doing something wrong, or go directly to the kids and try to influence them in ways contradictory to what their parents teach them, because I am so sure that their parents are doing it wrong. But I don't do that. I know that aside from abuse or neglect, the rest is just not up to me. The choice is in the hands of their parents, and as much as I think my choice is better, I just don't have the right to take it upon myself to undermine them. I know that I don't have that right because if the situation were reversed, I wouldn't want anyone undermining my decisions as a parent, if I were one.

Kids are generally more easily manipulated than adults. I think I've illustrated that; but even if I haven't, and that issue is still in question, what I can tell you for sure is that you just can't take it upon yourself to make decisions regarding other peoples' kids, no matter how strongly you feel. According to the law, kids below a certain age should not be doing anything sexual; and even if you're willing to disregard the law, don't ever disregard your moral obligation to respect the decision a parent has made about their own kids. That's a parent, your fellow adult, someone whom you hope would respect your decision if it were your kid. So do them the courtesy of keeping your hands off their kids.

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