kiddie porn or not


well what do you guys think?

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Kind of hard for it to be porn when there was no actual intercourse in the film. Please learn what pornography means before deeming something as such! Pretty Baby isn't porn! Highly disturbing cause it contains hints of sexual content, but no one is having sex on screen! There is a HUGE difference!

"All my friends are dead
All my friends are dead"
Turbonegro

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I agree it isn't pornography. But, as I understand it, for something to be pornographic it doesn't HAVE to contain actual sex acts. It seems to be more about the deliberate intent of the images to give sexual arousal to the viewer and not about something causing unintended sexual arousal in perverts. But this is a difficult debate and I understand why many people would think otherwise. It is an uncomfortable subject matter. The abuse and sexual exploitation of children is something any decent right minded person will find utterly horrific.

This film is controversial, yet it also has a rep for being a ‘good’ film. So I finally made myself watch it. If in watching Pretty Baby I had discovered it to be child pornography then I would have immediately stopped watching and complained to the proper authorities. However before I'd even decided to give it a go I had pretty much suspected that it wasn’t seeing as how the film is freely available to buy and rent. There is also the fact that I like much of director Louis Malle’s other work and know him not to be a pornographer. And I was right.

Of course Pretty Baby isn't child pornography.

It is a good and interesting and challenging film. Being a film fan I know that the late Louis Malle was a filmmaker who almost always tackled serious and often challenging issues in his work, difficult issues reflecting the kind of messed up world we live in. Though a good film I did find Pretty Baby an uncomfortable film to watch, which I suspect was the real intent of Malle. And it also made me angry - not the film itself but the situation young Violet and the other children were forced to live in as well as the attutudes of most of the adults around them. Even though this was set in early twentieth century United States the sad fact is that things like this (and much worse) still do go on today all around the world. And that’s the really offensive thing.

BTW Brooke Shields did a really good job as Violet. A strong performance.

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Whats the problem with nudity, even childnudity? Something to hide, or be afraid of or ashamed?
Having not seen the movie(just saw Blue Lagoon again, and they dealt very mature and calmly with the whole minor-sexuality case, then again i read the naked breast parts closeups were done by a stand-in, why i dont know but i trust it was the best choice), i just read they reframed the nudity parts. From a aesthetical point of view its a big shame. There is nothing fearfull or wrong in seing children naked. If its not sexually explicit in any ways, which i find it VERY hard to believe, there should be absolutely no problem. Some viewers will probably find it sexually though. And that is the problematic part. Nudity is forever linked to sexuality, even if its not intended.

Would i allow my childen to do such scenes? Only if NO sexually explicit images were filmed at all. But nudity at any age, if its done in a very artistical way ,sure.
Lets deal with child-sexuality and nudity with care and not try to label it as "bad" and stigmatize the whole issue. Its far too beatiful and natural to be treated this way.

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Not. This is not exploitation. Anyone expecting to be aroused here will be disappointed.

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It wasn't exactly a 'nice' time, what with how rough adults were with children in this story, and Belloq just barging in as a complete stranger but with money and taking provocative photographs of all the girls there. A child getting auctioned off to the highest bidder who will have his way with her, not exactly a nice time or a humane culture, methinks.

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I think Taylor was using "nice" to refer to how well this film appeared to capture the era of early 1900s New Orleans, not to refer to the action depicted here. Prostitution by adults as well as children was a fact of life 100 years ago, as it is today, and I applaud Louis Malle for portraying that truth so courageously.

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Exactly. When I say nice, I don't cheer for the fact child prostitution was apparently accepted 100 years ago. I just love the time setting in combination with the location. The birth of Jazz music which is implemented perfectly by the piano player for example.
The way they put everything on screen has such a vibe, it sucks me into the story.

What the nudity concerns... I still don't get this. Pretty Baby doesnt show anything more than what I saw today at the beach. There was a family with 3 naked little girls dipping their toes in the north sea. A beautiful sight, nothing offensive. And if anyone feels offended by this or me saying this, they should look at themselves first and ask why they get those negative thoughts.
I laugh at people who are offended by nudity

Three words occur to me: Kodomo no Jikan.


-
Greatest Hope: LOTR
Worst Fear: LOTL

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Exactly. When I say nice, I don't cheer for the fact child prostitution was apparently accepted 100 years ago. I just love the time setting in combination with the location. The birth of Jazz music which is implemented perfectly by the piano player for example.
The way they put everything on screen has such a vibe, it sucks me into the story.

What the nudity concerns... I still don't get this. Pretty Baby doesnt show anything more than what I saw today at the beach. There was a family with 3 naked little girls dipping their toes in the north sea. A beautiful sight, nothing offensive. And if anyone feels offended by this or me saying this, they should look at themselves first and ask why they get those negative thoughts.
I laugh at people who are offended by nudity


Sexuality in general and child sexuality in particular are hot-button issues on the Internet, where hot-button issues reach the point of explosion. These issues should indeed be discussed, but much of the discussion is by people egging other people on, or people making speeches without having seen a film.

As for this one, beyond Brooke's "topless" and "backless" scenes, it's clear the rest of her is concealed. You can even see the straps on the bikini bottom she was wearing.

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Hey, Xenophile,I doubt that was a beach anywhere in the U.S. other than one of the few remaining designated nudist beaches, as it would likely that, if beach patrol saw that going on on a public beach where proper attire is mandated the beach patrol would've brough the police in, the children would've been immediately taken away and put up for foster care and the parents would go to jail on a number of charges including child neglect and child endangerment. The parents would be branded as sex offenders and that would be the end of that family.

I know this sounds harsh but that unfortunately is how crazy law enforcement acts and has become in recent years about such an otherwise innocent thing of parents letting their children prance about the shoreline and into the water as the parents carefully monitor the kids and their surroundings at that beach.

But then again, since we know some people of this world are nuts and the risk factor is undoubtedly high, why would any parent in this day and age ever want to put their children at risk in a public environment like that where virtually anything of the unexpected could happen that would represent some sort of danger to those children?

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Three words occur to me: Kodomo no Jikan.


Okay, I am a HUGE fan of Kodomo No Jikan for its story and characters but that's because it isn't featuring REAL naked little girls in sexual situations. They are drawings of little girls...and very unrealistic-looking little girls at that. With their huge eyes and tiny faces, you can't possibly think of them as real children.

That being said, I am shocked and disgusted THIS movie was allowed to be made because Brook is a REAL, naked little girl in sexual situations.

Child porn....child nudity....it doesn't make a difference to me. If it's a real child, it should be illegal under any circumstances.

And don't play dumb with that crap about "oh they can show naked babies in movies/diaper commercials so this should be okay!"
You know that's not the same thing as a preteen girl right about to go into puberty!! Don't pretend it is.

"But it's a ROCK!"
"I KNOW IT'S A ROCK!"

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digiscript34 and chiibiprincess;

Sorry it's taken me so long to get to this. I've kind of fallen away from here, and only a list of movies at Maggie McNeil's blog reminded me. So I check in and, yeah.

The description of the beach visit with nude children running around wasn't from me; I was quoting Taylor_belongs_with_me. I'm fully aware that nude children on most American beaches would result in full-fledged hysterics from law enforcement and most of the rest of society because our fixation on pedophiles has caused ALL of us to sexualize children. We can't see a picture of a child (clothed or not) without asking, "would this appeal to a pedophile?" And just by asking that, we have cast that child in a sexual role the child never chose to be in.

I don't believe we who like Kodomo no Jikan would like it if Aoki-sensei decided to go for it, and the teacher and child became lovers, and this was somehow shown as a good thing. That, I suspect, would squick all or most fans.

And yes, the fact that the little girls are drawings and the voice actresses are adults means that any question of a child being harmed in the making of the show is meaningless. There are no children, thus, no children were or could possibly be harmed.

Shields seems to have suffered no ill effects from playing Violet in Pretty Baby.



I disagree with you, but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler.
- Jon Stewart

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For a 13yo boy, perhaps. But nah, you see more these days during peak hour TV (maybe not in America).

But it amazes me how many posters care how other people interpret visual images, after all they are just a a bunch of pixels. If some weirdo get's turned on while watching Skrek, Cinderella, Saving Private Ryan, heaven forbid, this movie, what business it is of yours?

I have kid...would I ever let them do nude scenes, hell no! Not for any money.

And I pity girls who's parents allow their young daughters to dress up in short skirts & small tops & g-strings (which let's face it only prostitutes would wear only a decade or so ago). But hey, that's their business, I have my own family to take care of. If they wan't to cater to horny guys, who are we to stop 'em?

The world is going to hell, prosecuting thought crimes is the last of our worries.

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This has been a long post and there are many interesting responds from all people. I am just replying to the poster and not against anyone who has participated in this post.

So, kiddie porn or not? Depends on which era!

In Renaissance time, we found many paintings involved nudity, from men to women to children. No one complains, the world was happy.

Today, especially in American, people grow so sensitive that they dial 911 if they see little Jake in “Two and a Half Men” saying or hearing a sexually implying word!

Why have we become like this? It’s because people so focusing on little things so up close, they became blind to the big picture. “Pretty Baby” was a story about the degree of prostitutes and people’s casual relationship that was tolerable at that time, just like gladiators killing each other or prisoners feed to the lions in public were legal and accepted by Roman society back then. The story took place in 1917, when child nudity and sex acts were not even an issue. And being filmed at the 70’s, when child porn was being aware but prevention act was not set. Art/porn material that involved children were not clearly draw at that time, and material of this kind were continued being produce right along side with other topics like SM and bestiality (sorry to bring this up!). I’m not saying that it could be bought at newsstands. I’m just saying how openly it was to produce such materials, because finding any print houses to print a magazine was a big deal back than, cost, labor and machinery. Until 1996 the act was carried out and from then ‘til 2003, any materials involve children posing or implying in a sexual way, clothes or naked, were consider child pornography and banned everywhere in the world.

So, “Pretty Baby” IS considered kiddie porn in today’s era because a) It involves picture or video of an underage modeling in the nude, and b) the material is being exploit, access to those who wants to see it – with a price. “Pretty Baby” however, WAS NOT considered kiddie porn at the time of production and release.

But for those who loved “Pretty Baby” or “Blue Lagoon” because of its beauty, I say GO BUY A COPY!! They were beautiful movies so why not own them and watch them?? If you are pure hearted and simply love the story, the scenery, or even the beauty of children’s body, why not? As long as it doesn’t trigger any evil thought that may draw you to harm children – in fantasy or practice, then you are no more wrong that looking at Statue of David.

And for those who stereotypes people who watch these movies, you people are worse! You are NAIVE because you think and do what people told you should, without analyzing yourself what’s right and wrong, or ask if those people themselves know what they were talking about! You are STUPID because you cannot tell between pornography and art, so you think all nudity are porn. You are the kind of people who puts signs over David’s genital and Venus’ breasts and call them obscene. You are HYPOCRITES because you say you do this to protect your children, yet you brainwash them with cartoons full of commercials values and consumer toys, teach them to masquerade their purity faces with heavy makeups and glamorous dress and send them to child beauty pageants, feed them with high cholesterol junk food so they grow to 300lb and stuck on their couch for 20 years. I ask you, who is worse??



Classics are that name everyone always hears, yet most have never seen!!

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The law cleary says it's not or it wouldn't have been released. The main reason I've been told is that it is considered art and not porn. My question is this. Today if someone takes a picture on a cell phone of someone naked or even partially it is considered child porn. You can get in trouble for having it. If you send it to someone you can get in trouble for distributing it. If the picture was taken in a "classy" way with the subject's approval then I don't see how it's any different than this film. Now I'm not condoning under age pictures on cell phones or any other medium, I'm just saying I dont see the difference between pics and movies. I realize "porn" is in the eye of the beholder according to the Suprem Court (I can't describe porn to you but I know it when I see it) and in my opinion this film qualifies. Others may disagree and that's fine.

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Obviously not.

My body's a cage, it's been used and abused...and I...LIKE IT!!

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Stupid frickin' OP.

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