MovieChat Forums > Picnic at Hanging Rock (1979) Discussion > This really angers people who don't get ...

This really angers people who don't get it, doesn't it?


Wow, reading through the negative reviews - what *is* it about this movie that so riles up its detractors? They go so far beyond stating their own issues with it. They feel compelled to sprinkle invective and insults for the film's fans throughout their comments. It's not enough for them that they don't like, weren't moved by it, didn't "get it", whatever; they have to throw little verbal rocks at those who disagree.

Wonder what it is about the movie that makes them so provocatively offensive and defensive?

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Films that promulgate a "mystery" but then don't solve it may _really_ upset the expectations of a lot of viewers (particularly those in the U.S.). Supposedly at an early screening to try to sell U.S. distribution rights for PAHR, one movie company executive was so upset at the end of the screening that he threw his coffee cup at the screen (and that tale is about an "executive", not Joe Sixpac:-).

(On the other hand, strikingly ambiguous films that pose permanently "unsolved puzzles" seem to be to be fairly common among the "classics". Consider "L'Avventura" or "The Passenger" [or other things by Antonioni], or "Stalker" [or other things by Tarkovsky]. Or consider "The Return", where the rumor is it started out as a straightforward whodunit, but the director went through the screenplay and excised every one of the reveal scenes that explained what was going on.)

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Death isn't the only mystery in life. Why do people demand finality?

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Because it is expected that if a writer poses a question in a piece of fiction, then he intends to propose an answer too. Anybody can ask a question or create a puzzle - it's the resolution of that which holds interest.

Personally I found PAHR unsatisfactory because it presented a fascinating scenario, a perfect set up for an intriguing whodunit, and then it fails to elaborate upon it all. It's the equivalent of me saying:

"A man is walking down the street when he disappears entirely."

People listening will say, "Wow? How? What happened?"

If I then say, "I dunno", they'll all be frustrated at the fact I raised it in the first place. It's a non-story.

That's not to say it's not still a beautiful film, but a lot of people want more than cinematography from a film, they want a compelling story with a beginning, a middle and an end.

"oh mummy, oh daddy - lets all play Kabadi!"

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...and every piece of cinema must conform?

Must all art be pictorial? Must there always be a story to glean?

Understanding that a lack of conclusion to a story can be frustrating isn't a difficult task. It is a refined form in television, as introduced by early Hollywood: the cliff-hanger. There is still a 'promise' of some sort of pay-off for having paid attention, but that's as much schooling as any natural inclination.

The genre of tragedy isn't known for its happy endings. I know you're not saying endings have to be happy, only that they need to be there. But, consider: people are also schooled to expect a happy resolution. The 'sad ending' of tragedy usually falls within an over-arching 'happy ending' story, so a practiced Hollywood viewer would 'naturally' assume that (tragic end) = (movie isn't over). In that way and under those circumstances, a tragedy is an incomplete story. And it's a very common circumstance, as demonstrated by the popularity of Hollywood movies.

Fair enough that if you thought you were going to see a comedy, you watched for two hours, something terrible happened and the movie ended, your expectations would be frustrated. But that doesn't mean that movies which end tragically are less valid as movies. Less popular? Well, I think the Hollywood studio system of the 1930s has a lot to do with how cinema is considered today. Social responsibility has dogged Hollywood movie making since the Production Code, and that came about in response to demands that cinema be made to serve the common good.

It may well be in our nature to want movies to be a certain way. It may be in our nature to want paintings to be pictorial. And, dichotomically, it may be in our nature to challenge our nature. I don't think the discussion is that grandiose. I do think there is a case to be made (and answered) that Hollywood made it so. If not a case, at least a long-winded discussion. :)

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I have seen/read similar reaction to Martha Marcy May Marlene.

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Haven't seen it. The Wiki page is so poorly written that it's worth a look just to wonder what the hell. But it looks very interesting.

Have you seen Curse of the Golden Flowers?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0473444/combined

In getting the link, I scrolled down and read this review...

This is a highly charged docudrama epic, instead of the gladiator/hero-ish action flick its marketing led people to believe. With that said, this is a very gripping film, almost to the point of eerie realism, for those of us who are familiar with ancient royal family politics. Betrayal, back-stabbing, assassination, adultery, family tragedy,... everything that could go wrong in the the royal court happened, and were woven in a way that made the complicated plot that much more involving. More than once, I felt real tangible emotions as events with each character/turning point deepens the tragedy. The one aspect I don't like was the intensity of this film... its almost like watching films the likes of Saving Private Ryan...more like a stressful experience than simple entertainment.

That's what makes CGF so epic! But the point about it not being entertainment supports my argument well.

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The book was fiction. I thought it was a beautiful film but when I originally rented it, I thought it was a true story...not true, just a legend. I was a little disappointed but it was still a beautifully filmed movie.

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there's something to be said for being given the opportunity to complete the story one's self, using one's own imagination

I realize that's a lot to ask of most people, but it's nice that we who appreciate such opportunities have a few of them to enjoy

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[deleted]

Why thank you.




He was so crooked, he could eat soup with a corkscrew.

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I have to count myself as one of the people, who was really disappointed by this movie. Maybe I don't "get it", whatever that means. And if you happen to love it, good for you. But it was so weird and creepy that I couldn't enjoy it as much as I would have liked to.

Intelligence and purity.

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It is safe to say that nobody really "gets" this movie, at least in terms of the storyline. The author of the source novel says it's a mystery, which is meant to remain a mystery, and no additional plot details will be forthcoming.

"Weird" and "creepy" are selling-points for me, though apparently not for you, which is OK.

I'm curious to know, however, how you came to see Picnic at Hanging Rock, and what you knew about the film before watching it. Your disappointment suggests that you went into it with anticipation, but somehow managed to build that anticipation without also learning that you were in for a weird and creepy ride, despite the weirdness and creepiness being the things for which the film is best known.


He was so crooked, he could eat soup with a corkscrew.

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I had never heard about this movie before I came across it on TV one night. But when I saw the first few minutes of it, I really thought that it would be up my alley, as I normally love historical dramas. But yes, this was supposed to be a mystery rather than a drama, and an unsolved mystery at that. Maybe I can't say that it is a "bad" movie, but it was never going to be a favorite of mine. Maybe it deserves a second chance from me though one day...

Intelligence and purity.

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Silverhawkins, you're assuming that all artists and writers have to conform to the standard "beginning, middle, and end" formula, which just simply isn't true. Cinema and all other art forms grew because people broke rules. Not all of those violations were necessarily successful ones, but Picnic is an intriguing piece of work and, if nothing else, has a distinct and haunting visual aesthetic. I've read the book as well and love it as dearly as the movie, and for me, I can't get enough of the enigmatic nature that is prevalent in both forms. I actually LIKE the fact that there is no resolution. The mystery remains, as it does in life as well. People go missing all the time and they are never found, and the answers we seek are also never uncovered. That's life.

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I too thought the movie kinda blew. I mean, as others have said, the premise was eerie and interesting. The title screams interest. However, I don't go to movies for a cliffhanger. I want to be told a story, and have it have some sort of finality. Otherwise there is no point. I am not saying I need concrete conclusions, but at least some sort of satisfying explanation as to what the heck happened to the girls? There wasnt even a satisfying insinuation as to what happened at the freeking rock.

I mean, did the girls just die
Did the red headed dude follow them up to the rock, rape them, and then feel guilty about the whole thing and then go find them again?
aliens?
peyote?

In the end it just wasted my time.

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Downmarket audiences don't always understand ambivalence or appreciate ambiguity. This movie ain't for the TRANSFORMERS crowd.

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"This movie ain't for the TRANSFORMERS crowd."

I don't think it's fair to speak in generalisations like that. I love both Transformers and PAHR, obviously for completely different reasons.

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I want to be told a story, and have it have some sort of finality...


OK, for you.

But one question: why the h--- did you watch this movie?

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I want to be told a story, and have it have some sort of finality...


OK, for you.

But one question: why the h--- did you watch this movie?


Your questions suggests that you think TheGoodGuy knew that he'd find this movie unsatisfactory before he watched it.

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Quoting Silverhawkins:
"Because it is expected that if a writer poses a question in a piece of fiction, then he intends to propose an answer too. Anybody can ask a question or create a puzzle - it's the resolution of that which holds interest.

Personally I found PAHR unsatisfactory because it presented a fascinating scenario, a perfect set up for an intriguing whodunit, and then it fails to elaborate upon it all. It's the equivalent of me saying:

"A man is walking down the street when he disappears entirely."

People listening will say, "Wow? How? What happened?"

If I then say, "I dunno", they'll all be frustrated at the fact I raised it in the first place. It's a non-story.

That's not to say it's not still a beautiful film, but a lot of people want more than cinematography from a film, they want a compelling story with a beginning, a middle and an end."
End Silverhawkins quote.

That's not a fitting analogy at all, and to say "it fails to elaborate upon [the set up] at all" tells me you either weren't paying attention or failed to comprehend what was really happening. CONSTANT hints are given throughout the film as to what may have happened to the girls. And the story is indeed elaborated upon through several characters and their interactions. One of the girls is even found! How is that not elaborating upon the story? We don't get many answers from her, but we definitely get hints and subtle clues about what may have happened after she's found.

Ultimately, what you seem to have missed is that what happened to the girls wasn't the point. The point was to raise questions, give hints and clues, but leave it up to the viewer to determine what happened. That along the way the film touches on themes of repressed sexuality, class, colonialism, spirituality, and time itself (among other things), is just a really nice bonus.

The film had a beginning (everything leading up to the disappearance), a middle (the search, finding Irma), and an end (Sara's fate, Appleyard's own mysterious death).

As to your analogy, a more fitting one would be:
"A man is walking down the street when he disappears entirely."

People listening will say, "Wow? How? What happened?"

I then say, "I dunno. But he had a watch that had stopped ticking and one of his boots was left laying there. A few days later his glasses appeared, too."

Some may be frustrated by the lack of "closure" in his story, but just as many would be left puzzling over it, intrigued by such mysterious happenings.

Bottom line: leaving the end open is a huge part of what makes Picnic such a powerful film. Had we gotten a concrete answer, it may have satisfied certain viewers, but the film simply wouldn't carry the weight it does today.

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A new thought upon rereading your post, Silverhawkins: maybe what this comes down to is that the film's admirers and detractors differ on what the story IS.

Robert Altman, in his commentary track on Gosford Park, underlined again and again that the "whodunnit" wasn't the point of the film. It was a frame to hang the real story on: who these people were, how their society operated, what their expectations, roles, and reality were. Altman didn't come right out and say that people who only saw the murde mystery were missing the good stuff, but it was clear enough. That's not who he made the film for.

So the murder in Gosford was just a peephole into the real story Altman was telling. I think that's analogous to PAHR. The disappearance isn't the story; it's a device. The story is the layers and layers of personal reaction to it; its impact on different people's lives it touched; the underpinnings of sexuality in a repressed culture. Mrs. Appleyard's arc shows the frailty of confidence and security. Mlle. de Poitiers' hints at changing mores in a new generation. Tom and Minnie show the humanity behind all the pretense.

Obviously I can't speak for the director! But it appears to me he took Altman's approach to an even bolder level. He was so clear that it *wasn't* about the mystery that he left it unsolved - unlike Gosford, which wrapped up nicely for the folks taking the easier ride.

To bring this home to the original post, maybe this is why the film provokes anger. Maybe people who thought they signed up for a mystery, complete with solution, feel they got a raw deal. That leaves open the question of why they feel compelled to throw brickbats at people who do like it!

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Solution to the mystery or not, this is one of my favourite films. Each time I watch it, it weaves a spell.

However, in Joan Lindsay's novel, there are clues throughout the book which offer a plausible solution to what really happened. No supernatural stuff either. I actually had read it about three times before I came across someone's essay about where the clues are and how they are consistent with the evidence.

But it is very difficult to work this out just from watching the film, as only a couple of these clues are given.

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He was so clear that it *wasn't* about the mystery that he left it unsolved


Bingo. Finally, someone says it.

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Silverhawkins, if you crave easy answers from your movie viewing experience, I strongly suggest you avoid directors like Stanley Kubrick and David Lynch like the Plague.



Never defend crap with "It's just a movie"
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigGreenProds

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No no no, sorry, I'm not assuming conformity to any kind of formula. I'm not suggesting it is a bad film because it doesn't offer an answer, I'm just accepting that by failing to include any kind of resolution, it leaves viewers expecting much more than what they end up receiving, and that can be frustrating for viewers - hence the answer to the OP: yes, it angers people, not because they don't get it, but because there is nothing (in terms of story) to "get". That's exactly what is angering.

I have no intention of throwing brickbats anywhere though! Each to their own...

Incidentally, I love Kubrick (not such a fan of Lynch, but I find his work curious), and recently Jonathan Glazer has also impressed with Under The Skin.



"oh mummy, oh daddy - lets all play Kabadi!"

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What makes you assume that this a whodunit?

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Personally I found PAHR unsatisfactory because it presented a fascinating scenario, a perfect set up for an intriguing whodunit, and then it fails to elaborate upon it all. It's the equivalent of me saying:

"A man is walking down the street when he disappears entirely."

People listening will say, "Wow? How? What happened?"


Yes, they will say that! And if they're like me, they will enjoy having the opportunity to think about it a great deal - to engage with the movie on a significant level.

Of course your opinion is totally valid. Maybe this isn't your kind of film (and I don't mean to sound condescending because no one's tastes are better than anyone else's), but I don't think that every film has to follow the same structure or offer the same things to their audience. I'm thankful for films like this and I think PAHR is the furthest thing from a "non-story."

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A representation of what is wrong with film-going nowadays, you perfectly summarized it. If a film presents something interesting as PAHR to the audience then that makes it worthy enough to see, how it ends all depends on the dynamics of that film, a film like L'avventura as mentioned before wouldn't be the same if everything was tied together in the end because the point is not how it ends.. but what was shown.. how it's told. PAHR is not a detective movie or a in-your-face hitchcockian noir, your description of what films should be is shallow, enclosed and saddening, I would have agreed if you just said you simply didn't like the film.

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But I didn't dislike the film. I was just vexed by it. I enjoyed the story telling as much as anyone else, I just left feeling teased rather than fulfilled.

Also, I should be clear that at no point was I describing "how films should be", I was simply trying to articulate why the film might anger some people in answer to the initial point raised by the OP. In any case, I don't agree that the expectation of a beginning, a middle and an end is "shallow". One can love a traditional story and equally enjoy an arthouse or off-kilter indie flick. The fact that not everybody does isn't cause for scorn.

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"oh mummy, oh daddy - lets all play Kabadi!"

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I apologize then, your previous comment was misleading..

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I think Picnic makes certain people angry because it creates this really deep and compelling mystery which draws you in and makes you a part of it......and then just doesn't offer a solution. Some people need a beginning, a middle, and a neat ending where everything's explained, and there's nothing wrong with that, as far as it goes. Myself, I love Picnic for the very reason that some other people hate it. I love that there's no solution. I'm aware that the characters and events in film aren't real; but that doesn't stop me, every time I watch it, wondering just what HAPPENED up on that rock.


"Fear is not what you owe me. No Lounds, you and the others - you owe me awe."

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I was very young, I though there was more meanings than I could understand; I tried it again, I just didn't get it; I tried it once more, sorry, I waved my hands, I finally gave up.

I don't really need a spoon-fed plot, I don't really need an ending, I don't really need sensible story -- my problem, nothing seemed happened, ones' lives seemed not be affected by the tragic event. The whole movie was still, frozen -- please forgive me, I am one of those who just don't get it.

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Ah, but you don't sound angry, and you're not insulting the people who DO like the film. So there you go: civility! ;)

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Just watched this film for the first time and I'm probably one of those who "doesn't get it". Beautifully made film and all that but toward the end I could tell there would be no resolution to the story. I can live with a film ending a bit ambiguously but with PAHR I didn't think there were any real clues as to what happened to the girls/women. I'm not saying I'm right and maybe there were clues and I missed them.

If other people like that kind of ending then fair enough, I certainly didn't hate this film.

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The film is beautiful and thought-provoking but unfortunately there were only two clues to the mystery in it, which is not much to go on.

The book, however, has several clues, although they are quite cleverly concealed.

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Has the mystery of human existence been successfully solved? I don't think so. Following that premise director of the movie is not obligated to provide solutions to that question, and that is what this movie is really about, the relationship of humanity with egzotic nature surrounding him, and essential failure to understand that nature and itself. That is the mystery, portrayed through a picture of Europeans being lost and dazed in Australian outback.

"The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple." O. Wilde

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Sadly, the tragic events not affecting other people's lives happens every day.

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Because people wish to be spoon fed, pandered to and have everything explained to them. If it's not, if the film is at all ambiguous then the accusation is that the film makers were making it up as they go along. Thankfully not every one thinks like that but it is an attitude I've noticed concerning films like this or say, A Field In England.

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It's down to Hollywood, they do so many bloody focus groups, audience tests etc, that they end up losing subtlety and ambiguity altogether.

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It's not "sci-fi", it's SF!

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Agreed, sometimes it's thought provoking to establish your own theory instead of being spoon fed one like JFK or even worse, the Black Dahlia. If there is no real closure, try to piece together your own.

I have not seen this film yet but intend to watch it very soon.

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I love ambiguous movies like 'Picnic', not every mystery needs a finite answer - Sometimes it's better to leave it open to interpretation. I can understand people not liking the movie for various reasons but to be angry at it for not spoon-feeding the viewer answers is very odd, It's a great atmospheric movie that requires some thought and reading between the lines .

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This post made me chuckle. The people who love this movie seem to do nothing but respond to posts of those who dislike it with condescending, insulting and rude comments about how they are too stupid to "get it" and how pathetic they are for not having patience and how sad it is that they just do not or are incapable of appreciating "art." And those are in response to people who were in no way disrespectful, rude or anything else, they just happened to dislike the movie.

I have seen far more "rock throwing" and arrogant, obnoxious comments from the film's fans than I have from people who dislike it. Or, excuse me, those who "just don't get it." I wonder what it is about this movie that makes its fans believe they are so superior to those who dislike it? Hmm.

I personally couldn't care less one way or the other but this post is definitely worth a laugh.


"The cover of this books is so misleading. It never snows like the cover implies that it does."

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Silverhawkins says "Because it is expected that if a writer poses a question in a piece of fiction, then he intends to propose an answer too. Anybody can ask a question or create a puzzle - it's the resolution of that which holds interest."

Ivan Turgenev says: "It is the function of the artist to ask questions, not to answer them."

From what I have read of the background of PAHR, the denouement of the novel was posing a problem for Joan Lindsay, and I think it was her publisher who proposed leaving the denouement out and keep everything up in the air.

A denouement was released after the death of Joan Lindsay - a science fictiony one - and it is just not good enough.

And that is the problem.

You can think of any denouement you like: they walked into another dimension; some aboriginals captured them and turned them into sex slaves; they hopped aboard a flying saucer and headed for the stars; they fell down a hole; that young man from the posh house did something to them.

Joan Lindsay has created a conundrum that is so good, that you cannot find a denouement of the same standard. To give this story a denouement would kill the story. Best to leave it as a conundrum without a solution. Like Oscar Wilde's cigarette, it is "the perfect type of a perfect pleasure: it is exquisite, and it leaves one unsatisfied."

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This post made me chuckle. The people who love this movie seem to do nothing but respond to posts of those who dislike it with condescending, insulting and rude comments about how they are too stupid to "get it" and how pathetic they are for not having patience and how sad it is that they just do not or are incapable of appreciating "art." And those are in response to people who were in no way disrespectful, rude or anything else, they just happened to dislike the movie.

I have seen far more "rock throwing" and arrogant, obnoxious comments from the film's fans than I have from people who dislike it. Or, excuse me, those who "just don't get it." I wonder what it is about this movie that makes its fans believe they are so superior to those who dislike it? Hmm.

I personally couldn't care less one way or the other but this post is definitely worth a laugh.


So we can see which group you fall into. Congrats for your smug attempts to get on top of outsmugging the detractors' dectractors.

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Non-sequiturs are delicious.

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You mean the people who are angered by the fact that NOTHING HAPPENS IN THIS MOVIE? That is a bigger rip-off than '50s horror films where the monsters were INVISIBLE! Gah!





Get me a bromide! And put some gin in it!

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