MovieChat Forums > The Godfather Part II (1974) Discussion > Michael's Deductions on Hyman Roth.

Michael's Deductions on Hyman Roth.

posted 6 years ago by Retromogul (1082)
6 replies | jump to latest

I've never quite understood how Michael figured out it was Hyman Roth behind his attempted assaination. Was it in the process of Michael feeling out Roth and witnessing his anger over the Moe Green hit? As well as realising that Fredo was lying about never having meet Johnny Ola?

Even so, how does Michael pick up on Roth's belief that he's going to live forever when Roth had repeatedly lamented his inpending death? And what was Roth's end game? He tried to kill Michael but he still needed his investment in Havana? Can't work that one out.

The trilogy seems to have a thing for unexplained deductions made by the characters. Witness Vito in the first film coming to the conclusion out of thin air that Barzini had Sonny killed.

[–] Retromogul (1082) 6 years ago

Oh right I managed to work out Roth's end game from old IMDB posts on this board. So Roth wanted Michael dead out of revenge for Moe Green; to gain absolute control over Michael's gambling interests - the spark being lit by Michael's refusal of a deal made by Johnny Ola - and to have his minions, the Rosato Brothers, gain control over territory being held by Petangeli. Using Fredo to get to Michael and having the weak Fredo take over as Don would also gurantee Roth's influence over the Family.

It would seem that the money Roth was asking for in Cuba was a useless ruse to get Michael out in the open. The money said to be intended as a bribe to President Batista would amount to naught since rebels were taking over the country. Roth seemed to be aware of this since he lead Michael away when he broached the topic of rebels in front of other investors during the serving of cake.

Wow this is all so convoluted and deep! But still leaves the question of Michael's deductions open.

[–] strntz (12254) 6 years ago

Roth seemed to be aware of this since he lead Michael away when he broached the topic of rebels in front of other investors during the serving of cake.

I admit a lot of this is beyond me, but Roth would have a damned good reason for taking Michael aside when he talked about the rebels, assuming of course that Roth intended to stay in Cuba and misread the revolution.

If Roth believed the revolution would fail and he was planning to expand in Cuba, Michael's concern might spook the other investors. It's possible that the whole Cuba thing was a ruse to get Michael out in the open, but that's a really big game to play. Indeed, Roth almost got away with rubbing out Michael in the hit at Michael's house. If that hit succeeded, then the whole Cuba thing was a big waste of time and effort.

[–] TexasJack (12516) 6 years ago

I think Vito picked up on the tone and body language used by Tattaglia and Barzini. Barzini was essentially running the meeting and Tattaglia seemed to be looking for approval from Barzini.

[–] Retromogul (1082) 6 years ago

Yeah I thought of that - the way Barzini was echoing Tattaglia's objections and Vito knowing all along that Tattaglia is just a "pimp", unable to pull big moves on his own.

[–] Jes' Sayin' (6360) 4 years ago

Because Fredo had averred that he had never met Johnny Ola, but later on Michael heard him repeating Johnny told me this and Johnny told me that.

[–] redban (6194) 2 months ago

Michael knew the person had to be someone with means, opportunity, and motive. His henchmen like Rocco and Al weren't capable, and he felt people like Fredo, Hagen, and others were too loyal. The only two realistic options were Pentangali and Hymen Roth. I think he kind of suspected both, but he leaned more towards Hymen Roth because Pentangali was still a close relation to the family. He confirmed that Roth was behind it when Roth starting talking about Moe Green later in Havana